Help with a '94 Winchester

[ceb]

I was reading the recent thread about the levergun fighting DVD and it brought this back to my mind. I have a built in 1971 Winchester 94, there is no way I can top off the mag tube if there is a cartridge already there. I simply cannot push the loading gate down past a cartridge in the mag tube to top off the gun. If I ever push a cartrige too far in loading the rifle, I have to live with whats in the gun or cycle everything through and start over. Can this be cured with a new loading gate, or is there something allowing the cartridge in the mag tube to slip to far into the receiver to allow the loading gate to be pushed down. I don't have this problem with either of my Marlin 1894 rifles.

[Malamute]

Yes, that can be fixed. Older 94's generally feed slick as can be, the ones that are hard to feed have a rough spot on the back of the gate. There is a rib on the back of the gate, it needs to be carefully polished so it cams the cartridge forward enough to get the next round in. I polish the top edge of the rib, adn break the sharp edges of it, rounding them off slightly. It should be mirror polished and no bumps to be at it's best. A small, fine ceramic stone works great. The hardest part is getting the gate back in right, and the screw started straigh. Be careful not to overtorque and strip the screw also.

Some claim the "problem" is "you're not loading it right" and you are supposed to leave the rim exposed as you load til fully loaded. That's not "the right" way to load them, it's one way, and a way that circumvents the real problem with the gate being rough. In other words, it's a stop-gap that tries to compensate for the gate problem. It does work fine if you choose to load that way, but when the gate works properly, there simply isnt any need or real reason to load that way, despite what the later factory literature says. They aren't admitting the newer guns are rough. It's cheaper to print that in the manual than make the gun function properly. Pick up a pre-war gun and load it and youll see the difference. Slick as can be. No reason whatsoever to load partially (and risk having them come back out the gate whle loading).

The fix is simple, and makes the "work arounds" completely uneeded. Your gun should load at any point very easily.

[COSteve]

I've found that if the gate won't open during loading just open the lever just a bit to where you just start to feel things moving in the action, then close it completely and that clears the hangup. Yes, its a roughness issue but it works and you're back loading and shooting.

[Griff]

I don't recommend this, nor have I ever done it... but... you "can" use the bullet of the round you want to load to push in the spring cover... the hardness of the bullet is a much better "pusher" than the end of your pinkie! Mind, I'm only tellin' you this, as I've "SEEN" it done... not that I would ever do anything like that!

[ceb]

Well I took out the loading gate and it seems someone may have been in there before, hard to tell for me since I've never seen another, but theres not a lot of bevel there. Maybe the best answer is for me to find a older rifle!

[Malamute]

If someone had polished it any, they may not have done a good job of it. They generally seem to need the machine marks taken out and polished smooth, and the sharp edges of the sides of the rib rounded gently. I dont recall much difference in the size or shape of the various years ribs on the back of the gate I've looked at or cleaned up, I believe it's mainy the roughness/slickness. I'll look when I get time and see if I can tell any difference.

Do you happen to have one of those triangular ceramic stones Brownells sells?

I've used the method Griff mentioned, but still its best when the gun works as originally intended.

[J Miller]

I have somewhere in my disaster a pre-64 Win 94 owners manual that tells quite plainly how to load them.
The instructions are to push the round in leaving the rim just at the entrance to the loading port, then use the bullet of the next to push the one before in leaving the rim at the entrance and repeat till the gun is full.
It doesn't address the topping off of the magazine during firing though.

Everything above is good and correct, check the loading gate for burrs and polish the rib smooth breaking the edges.

OK, but you might need to go further. Pull the magazine spring and scrub the insides of the tube, the follower, and the spring. Lube lightly.
If that's dirty inside it can make it harder to push the rounds in.

Also measure your magazine spring. Most of the springs I've measured have been 4" to 6" longer than the tube.

And there are different loading gates. Different for different vintages and different for different calibers. They look basically the same, but they have different part numbers so there's got to be something different.

One other thing. The loading gate itself is a spring. That's why Winchester calls it a "spring cover". I've had some where the spring part would better serve as a helper spring on a F350 Ford. It just might take a bit of lightening up of this part along with the polishing and cleaning to make it work.

Joe

[Rifleman]

you "can" use the bullet of the round you want to load to push in the spring cover... the hardness of the bullet is a much better "pusher" than the end of your pinkie!

That is just what I do. Works wonderfully.

[J Miller]

Rifleman,

I don't know which variant of 94 that is in your sig line, but it would look worlds better if the barrel were shortened just ahead of the magazine and the front sight moved just behind the barrel band.
Kind of like the old original SRC configuration.

JMHO

Joe

[Mutt]

I prefer the barrel and mag tube to be neck & neck so to speak. Not sure when or why Winchester left some barrels sticking out longer than the mag tube. Not trying to steal the subj.
But saw the picture .

[20cows]

You can order another spring cover from Winchester/Browningn and I bet that'll fix it. I've played with quite a few and the poor ones are the exception rather than the rule.

Oh, and the latest ones work great in a '71 model.

[jlchucker]

I prefer the barrel and mag tube to be neck & neck so to speak. Not sure when or why Winchester left some barrels sticking out longer than the mag tube. Not trying to steal the subj.
But saw the picture .

That's how they used to make the ones for Sears Roebuck and sold under Sears' brand--JC Higgins I seem to recall. That shortened mag tube and a different brand name made it different from the plain old 94's being sold under the Winchester name.

[ceb]

Thanks Gentlemen for the help, the cover in my gun seems beyond repair, I'll order a new one. But I'm still gonna look for an older rifle!