your best 45 colt loads

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:46 pm

hdy 255 gr RNFP pushed by 17.8 grs of AA 5744 900 fps out of a 7.5 bbl, shoots clean thru a deer behind the shoulder. I like 5744 as it fills the case and eliminates double charges and if you want to bump the FPS 5744 will do it. danny

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:05 pm

BigSky56 wrote:hdy 255 gr RNFP pushed by 17.8 grs of AA 5744 900 fps out of a 7.5 bbl, shoots clean thru a deer behind the shoulder. I like 5744 as it fills the case and eliminates double charges and if you want to bump the FPS 5744 will do it. danny

Danny...how does this load group for you? Bein an old timer...I haven't tried some of the newer powders. What say you?

LB

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:03 pm

great responces guys...some very interseting to say the least!
Next post is about powder!

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:01 pm

Don't forget that the Uberti Cattleman also uses a 45 ACP cylinder. I contacted Uberti and was told the cylinders are all made from the same blanks. The 45 ACP Winchester "white box" is listed at 21,000 cup. The cylinder walls of the ACP are just a tad thicker than the 45 Colt. I measured mine but don't have them handy. Also Uberti test fires these revolvers at THREE times the pressures (63,000 CUP in this case) according to this video. http://youtu.be/qYOJa8ZNxmE?t=4m43s Does this mean go shoot high pressure loads in your 45 Colt? Of course not. Wait, what about the 44-40? Thicker cylinder walls same materials. And we all know the 44-40 case will take the pressures hence the "High Velocity" cartridges from Winchester back in 1903 with a reported........wait for it.........22,000 psi. Says psi but not sure if it is psi or cup in reality. Guys replicate these High Velocity charges with 20gr of 2400 for the Marlin and Winchester 92 on up rifles. Now this 20gr may be from the old manuals with a reported current higher velocities with modern 2400 of that same weight.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:46 pm

The highspeed 44-40's were only for use in the Winchester 92.
The case diameter of the 44-40 and 45 colt are the same at the cylinders weakest point, in the rear where the lock bolt notches are.

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:53 am

Don McDowell wrote:The highspeed 44-40's were only for use in the Winchester 92.
The case diameter of the 44-40 and 45 colt are the same at the cylinders weakest point, in the rear where the lock bolt notches are.

I did mention what the high velocity cartridges were made for. Also they were not to be used in the weaker black powder frame (weaker metal) revolvers.

Also, the 44-40 measurements at the weak areas aforementioned are:

44-40 - .471
45 ACP- .476
45 Colt - .480

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:22 am

You really really think that .009 inch of material is going to keep you that much safer?

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:46 am

Don McDowell wrote:You really really think that .009 inch of material is going to keep you that much safer?

I wonder how much thicker/bigger Uberti's 44 Magnum/454 Casual "Buckhorn" cylinder, as well as the 44-40 cylinder/frame is at the so called "weak end" of the cartridge.

Time for another phone call.

http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopdi ... n+%2E44mag

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:54 am

Looking back at some cylinder wall measurements I did.

44 Special:

Colt - .068
Smith 24 - .075
Ruger Flat Top - .082

Ruger 44 magnum SBH - .085

Freedom Arms 454 Casull - .113

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:23 am

Uberti 45 Colt Cylinder wall measurments

45 Colt - chamber/chamber wall .042, chamber/outside wall .068 - 15,900 CUP/14,000psi
45 ACP - chamber/chamber wall .048, chamber/outside wall .068 - 21,000 psi
44 WCF- chamber/chamber wall .058, chamber/outside wall .071 - 13,000 CUP
357 Mag-chamber/chamber wall .146, chamber/outside wall .117 - 35,000 psi

The 357 obviously is smaller but produces the same 40,000 CUP loads as the 44 magnum

Oldsavages report also shows that the .105 thickness on the 44 mag will hold back the 40,000 CUP pressures. However, there is a big diff between the .105 and the .068 for magnum loads.

But back to the ACP/Colt. Same outter wall thickness and .006 inner wall difference? C'mon, a little common sense here. The next question is cartridge/cylinder wall slop!!

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:01 pm

I had to try 3031. Why isn't it used more in 45 Colt loads? I know I had a lot of unburned powder. Is that why? It sure fills the case. The loads showed some accuracy.

Owen

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:48 pm

You think 3031 has unburnt powder

try some 4064 sometime

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:31 pm

Keith blew up his 45 Colt SAAvin 1925. It was on the forth of July. He used .458 300gr bullets originally intended to be used in the 45-90 Winchester and black powder he had ground down to the consistency of flour! He switched to the 44 Special and the rest is history.

Bob Hagel wrote in a 1967 issue of "The Handloader" that he fired thousands of rounds of 250gr bullets loaded with 18.5gr of 2400 and never had a problem. Of course, this is the "old" 2400.

August 1955 issue of American Rifleman. Keith's standard 44 Special load 429421 was 18.5gr of 2400 with the balloon head case brass resulted in 1,235fps and 21,000 psi

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:05 pm

Heritage Rough Rider by Pietta 45 Colt - between the chamber walls - .031/.0325". Ruger three screw Blackhawk in 45 Colt same measurement - approx. .060" Iver Johnson between the cylinder walls .045".

Large variance here and that may be why the SAAMI pressures are held where they are - seems all clones are not created equal though I have never heard the mentioned here before.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:09 pm

Savvy Jack you may want to spend a couple of minutes browsing thru the online data at Alliants website...

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:15 pm

Don McDowell wrote:Savvy Jack you may want to spend a couple of minutes browsing thru the online data at Alliants website...

Been there, done that.

I'd rather read live accounts from the 30s, 40s and 50s...even the 60s rather than watered down legal stuff.

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:17 pm

SAVVY_JACK wrote:
Don McDowell wrote:Savvy Jack you may want to spend a couple of minutes browsing thru the online data at Alliants website...
Been there, done that.

I'd rather read live accounts from the 30s, 40s and 50s...even the 60s rather than watered down legal stuff.

Hey, I did not say "stuff"

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:20 pm

Ok keep your head in the sand then....

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:34 pm

Remeasuring the Casull - .115" outside and the chamber walls are thicker - .125+ apparently that is what they think it takes to contain 60,000 lbs with the finest heat treated steel. And they can blow those up for testing.

DixieBoy · Post by **DixieBoy** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:50 pm

Savvy Jack - Not trying to start a war with ya, but you might want to think about what Don has told you.
He's a good guy and I'd bet that he'd be happy if you're able to grow old.

Well, as old Will Rogers said "Some men learn by reading, some men learn by listening, and some guys
just have to whizz on the electric fence and see for themselves."

- DixieBoy

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:54 pm

DixieBoy wrote:Savvy Jack - Not trying to start a war with ya, but you might want to think about what Don has told you.
He's a good guy and I'd bet that he'd be happy if you're able to grow old.

Well, as old Will Rogers said "Some men learn by reading, some men learn by listening, and some guys
just have to whizz on the electric fence and see for themselves." - DixieBoy

Listen, I have no desire to shoot hot loads in the 44 special, 44-40 or even the 45 Colt. I just like to know thw truth, not some bullcrap he said she said. Got It?

BTW, I use 35gr Swiss FF in my 45 Colt with a 454190 bullet and I use 35gr of the same for my 44-40 with the 427098. I use 17.7gr of 2400 for my 357magnum with the 125gr SGDHP and I use 5gr of Trailboss for my 200gr big lube bullet in the 45 ACP cylinder. So there (where is the smiley that sticks out his tongue?)

I guess it is only fair to answer the original question. My best load (not my normal load) for the 45 Colt is:

45 Colt
Uberti 5.5" Cattleman
40gr Swiss FF Black Powder
WLP Primers
Lyman 454190 (I cast myself)
.17 powder compression
AOL 1.600
Avg Vel 945fps @ 502ft/lbs of energy
2" Groups at 25'

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:39 pm

Dixie thanks for the kind words.

Jack if you pull your head out of the sand just long enough to go look at Alliants web data, unless they've changed it recent, you'll find some of these herculean loads you're referring to actually stay well within saami specs..... the bludot load is especially a good one and their chrono data is right dang close to what I get. They also call for 10 grs of unique,, just like they did 50 years ago, altho most of us find that 8.5-9 grs shoots with a bit better accuracy. 18 grs of 2400 isn't anywhere near the gun wrecker some think it is, altho some of the fps we were lead to believe about it falls a bit short when run over a modern chrono..
Move to 3f with the black bounce the charge up a couple grs ,and use a thin card wad under a 250 gr remington bulk bullet and findout why the grand ol cartridge lived long enough for you to discover it a couple of years ago.

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:07 pm

Don McDowell wrote:Dixie thanks for the kind words.

Jack if you pull your head out of the sand just long enough to go look at Alliants web data, unless they've changed it recent, you'll find some of these herculean loads you're referring to actually stay well within saami specs..... the bludot load is especially a good one and their chrono data is right dang close to what I get. They also call for 10 grs of unique,, just like they did 50 years ago, altho most of us find that 8.5-9 grs shoots with a bit better accuracy. 18 grs of unique isn't anywhere near the gun wrecker some think it is, altho some of the fps we were lead to believe about it falls a bit short when run over a modern chrono..
Move to 3f with the black bounce the charge up a couple grs ,and use a thin card wad under a 250 gr remington bulk bullet and findout why the grand ol cartridge lived long enough for you to discover it a couple of years ago.

lol, I know...ok I'll settle down a tad before you guys think I am really wacko. I like Unique as well and used it for a while in my 44-40s before going back to Black powder. It's been a while but I think I used between 8-9 for the 44-40. I used Tightgroup for the 45 Colt but didn't really like it. The Traillboss in the 45 ACP cylinder gives me a mild 900fps and is surprisingly accurate for me. I also use it in my 38s for yard shooting.

The base of the 44 Special cartridge is about .457 and certainly made it the best candidate for the 18.5gr of 2400 back in the day as Kieth proved. Even when Kieth basically phased out the 44 Special with the 44 Mag, Skeeter brought it back. Interesting how ideas come and go....then return for a different reason.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:17 pm

Skeeter mostly recommended 7.5 grs of unique in the 44 special with the 429244 bullet and 9 grs of the same powder in the 45 colt with the 250 gr swc... He also shot 10 gr unique in the 38 and 44 wcf...

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:49 am

Don McDowell wrote:Skeeter mostly recommended 7.5 grs of unique in the 44 special with the 429244 bullet and 9 grs of the same powder in the 45 colt with the 250 gr swc... He also shot 10 gr unique in the 38 and 44 wcf...

Yeah, and the sweet thing is that he had Ruger old model 357s (three screw) converted to 44 spl's since there were no new ones to buy!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:06 am

SAVVY_JACK wrote:
Don McDowell wrote:Skeeter mostly recommended 7.5 grs of unique in the 44 special with the 429244 bullet and 9 grs of the same powder in the 45 colt with the 250 gr swc... He also shot 10 gr unique in the 38 and 44 wcf...
Yeah, and the sweet thing is that he had Ruger old model 357s (three screw) converted to 44 spl's since there were no new ones to buy!

grrrr!

Nothing, no thing sweeter than a Ruger .357 3-screw that's been unmolested

... no, not even one in .44 Spl.!

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:12 am

Shouldn't there be at least three different favorite 45 Colt loads? One for rifle, one for pistol, and one that works somewhat well in both.
Of corse then hunting loads or target loads.

I was told one fellas favorite was Trail Boss. I hated it, but maybe in a revolver it might be just the ticket. Still searchin'.

Owen

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:04 am

Griff wrote:
SAVVY_JACK wrote:
Don McDowell wrote:Skeeter mostly recommended 7.5 grs of unique in the 44 special with the 429244 bullet and 9 grs of the same powder in the 45 colt with the 250 gr swc... He also shot 10 gr unique in the 38 and 44 wcf...
Yeah, and the sweet thing is that he had Ruger old model 357s (three screw) converted to 44 spl's since there were no new ones to buy!
grrrr! Nothing, no thing sweeter than a Ruger .357 3-screw that's been unmolested... no, not even one in .44 Spl.!

not nowdays anyhow...but back then I guess thats all they had. Guys proving the factories wrong...gotta love it.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:02 am

DixieBoy wrote:Savvy Jack - Not trying to start a war with ya, but you might want to think about what Don has told you.
He's a good guy and I'd bet that he'd be happy if you're able to grow old.

Well, as old Will Rogers said "Some men learn by reading, some men learn by listening, and some guys
just have to whizz on the electric fence and see for themselves." - DixieBoy

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:58 pm

I bet Elmer Keith is Laughing and rollin in the isles about now.....He had the .45 Colt figured out about 80 years ago........................................................................................

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:00 pm

.45colt wrote:I bet Elmer Keith is Laughing and rollin in the isles about now.....He had the .45 Colt figured out about 80 years ago........................................................................................

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:19 pm

It has been reported that the Great Western 45 Colt replicas made in the 1950s used 30gr of 2400 with no damage and upheld 52,000 psi loads. 27gr of the same loads in the Colts bulged the cylinders. The cylinders of the GWs were made from high carbon SEA 4140 chrome-moly treated to 36 Rockwell on the C scale. GW made the SAAs chambered for 44 Magnum and all dimensions were the same as the Colts. During testing the bullet passed trough all the traps the wall and out into the streets of Los Angeles but don't know if this referred to the 45Colt or the 44 Magnum....either way....

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:13 pm

I know this is a 45 Colt topic but I will finish what I started.

Well I finally did it.

44-40 High Velocity
200gr Speer JHP
WLP
StarLine (new brass)
18gr recent Alliant 2400
Chronograph 10ft ahead of barrel
Bench rest
Uberti Buckhorn 44 Magnum 7 1/2 barrel

Same loads shot in Marlin 1894CB. Loaded and spent cases measured the same from both Marlin and Revolver. I did what I have been wanting to do for two years. Finally got the gonads to get it done. I had no desire to do it, just wanted to get it over with.

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:49 pm

I leave the powder measure set on 8grs. of unique, I use it for light 44, 41, and 45 colt loads, seems to kill chipmunks pretty darned quick. I've tried 8.5 and 9grs. unique but my 4.62" Vaqureo likes the 8.

Rodfac · Post by **Rodfac** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:23 am

With any good LSWC sized to fit the throats, I like 8.3 gr of Unique with Winchester LP primers for 830 fps from a 4-5/8" Ruger New Vaquero.
With the same bullet, 7.2 gr of Winchester 231 or HP 38 does as well and gives me 770 fps from the same gun. Both loads will give me less than 2" gps at 25 yds, from a sitting, back rest position, (Keith's old long range shooting position.)

In either load, check a good manual and work up slowly for your gun. The two loads are safe, and authoritative in my guns. Best Regards, Rod

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:55 am

Summarized here: http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/the-45- ... f-success/

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:18 pm

Sarge wrote:Summarized here: http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/the-45- ... f-success/

Excellent article, Sarge - a keeper! Thank you for this great write-up. I already have setteled upon some favorites, but I will be looking at your loads for my Ruger Blackhawk Convertible (45 Colt / 45 ACP).

Catshooter · Post by **Catshooter** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:42 pm

Don McDowell wrote: 18 grs of unique isn't anywhere near the gun wrecker some think it is,

Seriously? Eighteen grains of Unique? In the 45 Colt? You want to try again with that please?

You must mean 18 grains of 2400, but you need to back up and be a bit more careful here.

Cat

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:35 pm

Catshooter wrote:
Don McDowell wrote: 18 grs of unique isn't anywhere near the gun wrecker some think it is,
Seriously? Eighteen grains of Unique? In the 45 Colt? You want to try again with that please?

You must mean 18 grains of 2400, but you need to back up and be a bit more careful here.

Cat

I missed that one cat!

Nevertheless if that is 18gr of 2400 then you are correct. BUT what I do know is that Uberti has been quoted as saying that their firearms, revolvers, are tested to three times their normal operating pressures. There leaves room to wonder there in saying that the Uberti Buckhorn 44 magnum is tested to 120,000psi? The 357 mag, maybe (thicker cylinder walls) but I doubt it seriously so for the 44 magnum. What I do know is that the 45 ACP has a pressure of 21,000 psi and a 60,000 test pressure seems more realistic of which the revolver cylinder could withstand. I have no doubt that the 45 Colt cylinder would do the same with the 21,000 psi......although I have not tried it.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:56 pm

I kinda wondered if 'ol Don did that on purpose to get a comment or if by some wierd chance he might have actually made a mistake. I just didn't want to have him tell how stupid I am cause I have only been loading for my Colt SAA 5 1/2 inch .45 since 1960. Never loaded anything but Unique.
[added] I don't think 18 GRAINS OF UNIQUE would feel to good in my Colt.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:42 pm

These plain-jane 255 grain Winchester's out of my little Bond
shoot just dandy. (the only 45 I own)

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:10 pm

Savy Jack, I too like that load in my 44-40, but it doesn't work in the 45 colt.

Owen

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:23 pm

hightime wrote:Savy Jack, I too like that load in my 44-40, but it doesn't work in the 45 colt.

Owen

Yeah....only good luck I have had with my 45 is good ole black powder. Have not messed with it much yet with smokeless. I use BP, 2400 and Unique. Best three powders out there. I also have some trailboss for my 38s for plinking but it does great in my 45 acps.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:36 pm

To who'all it may concern,

I ain't buyin' into an 18 grain load of 2400 for a .45Colt & 250 grain or heavier bullet in a Colt SAA or clone. Alliant's data shows a 250 grain LSWC @ 976 fps w/just 15.4 grains w/a 5-½ bbl. Sorry guys, I don't think tellin' someone to up that by 2.6 grains is a safe or prudent course of action.

That 18 grain load is in the .44 Mag category, maybe a tad light, but, IMNSHO, well above what I'd try in my Colts. I might be induced to touch one off in someone else's SBH, but not in a Colt SAA or clone.

Bryan Austin · Post by **Bryan Austin** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:22 pm

Griff wrote:To who'all it may concern,

I ain't buyin' into an 18 grain load of 2400 for a .45Colt & 250 grain or heavier bullet in a Colt SAA or clone. Alliant's data shows a 250 grain LSWC @ 976 fps w/just 15.4 grains w/a 5-½ bbl. Sorry guys, I don't think tellin' someone to up that by 2.6 grains is a safe or prudent course of action.

That 18 grain load is in the .44 Mag category, maybe a tad light, but, IMNSHO, well above what I'd try in my Colts. I might be induced to touch one off in someone else's SBH, but not in a Colt SAA or clone.

I have an Uberti 45 Colt Cattleman with both a 45 Colt and 45 ACP cylinder. The 45 ACP max pressure is 21,000 psi. I have talked with a factory rep, but not tried it myself in the 45 Colt, and he said the revolver is fine at 21,000psi. NOW, will the 45 Colt be able to safely produce the same pressures in that gun? Why not? The gun can handle it. The cylinders are made from the same blanks of steel and have the same strengths. None any stronger than the other as far as case hardening etc. Cylinder walls are the same thickness chamber to chamber as well as chamber to outside. The revolvers are also, so called, tested at three times their max rated pressures.

Now what you must understand is that SAAMI specs are limited to a "weak link" in a specific cartridge. What firearm, case, chamber dimensions, etc is the weak link? What is the SAAMI specs for the 45-70? 28,000 cup...why? Because the weak link is the Trapdoor Springfield. But of course we know that loads up to 43,000cup is used in the Marlin rifles. The steel used today, aircraft 4140 which is much better than the early pre 1900s steels. It is also probable that you may can only use the high pressure case only once before it is too week to use again. I said maybe. I load my 44-40 large frame Buckhorn revolver to around 21,000 psi and we all know the max pressure for the 44-40 according to SAAMI is 13,000 cup. Many will tell you that the max for the 44-40 is due to the bottle neck...bullcrap....winchester made 22,000 pis high velocity rounds in 1902 for the 1894 rifles. Many have said the the week link for the 44-40 was the Winchester 73's weak action. But Uberti now makes the 73' chambered for the 44 magnum's 40,000 psi. Go figure! Improvements on the toggle link? I don't know....have yet to see one for myself. If you have the balls and money, go for it....but don't say it aint so just because someone said it aint so

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:39 pm

Catshooter wrote:
Don McDowell wrote: 18 grs of unique isn't anywhere near the gun wrecker some think it is,
Seriously? Eighteen grains of Unique? In the 45 Colt? You want to try again with that please?

You must mean 18 grains of 2400, but you need to back up and be a bit more careful here.

Cat

Thanks you for catching that. Yup it should of read 2400....

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:32 am

Yeah, I checked and 15 gr. of 2400 is my most accurate load for the 44-40. with a 200 gr rnfp.

Owen

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:23 am

casastahle wrote:These plain-jane 255 grain Winchester's out of my little Bond
shoot just dandy. (the only 45 I own)

Well thats a start

Hows the recoil and where the grips come from? How does it shoot with 410, patterns, range and other pertinent details appreciated. Todd

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:40 am

3leggedturtle wrote:
casastahle wrote:These plain-jane 255 grain Winchester's out of my little Bond
shoot just dandy. (the only 45 I own)

Well thats a start Hows the recoil and where the grips come from? How does it shoot with 410, patterns, range and other pertinent details appreciated. Todd

The Bond started out life as a .357 mag.
357’s have a wicked recoil. The 38 spl’s +P are very tolerable.

Decided one day I liked the versatility idea of the combo 410 / 45.
Recoil I found to be much less violent with the 410 & 45’s over the 357.

This for me equated into much better accuracy results.
A 410 loaded with #8’s at 15’ to 20’ (target head shot) = the bad guy will
never see or look very good in the facial area again.
The second barrel shot with a .45 Colt 255 grain chunk of lead to the chest
area should end the problem.

The stag grips are handmade by a guy that sold them on gunbroker.com.

Far from the best CCW weapon, but it works for me.
As the saying goes “It’s better than having nothing”

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:55 pm

SAVVY_JACK wrote:
Griff wrote:To who'all it may concern,
I ain't buyin' into an 18 grain load of 2400 for a .45Colt & 250 grain or heavier bullet in a Colt SAA or clone. Alliant's data shows a 250 grain LSWC @ 976 fps w/just 15.4 grains w/a 5-½ bbl. Sorry guys, I don't think tellin' someone to up that by 2.6 grains is a safe or prudent course of action.
That 18 grain load is in the .44 Mag category, maybe a tad light, but, IMNSHO, well above what I'd try in my Colts. I might be induced to touch one off in someone else's SBH, but not in a Colt SAA or clone.
I have an Uberti 45 Colt Cattleman with both a 45 Colt and 45 ACP cylinder. The 45 ACP max pressure is 21,000 psi. I have talked with a factory rep, but not tried it myself in the 45 Colt, and he said the revolver is fine at 21,000psi. NOW, will the 45 Colt be able to safely produce the same pressures in that gun? Why not? The gun can handle it. The cylinders are made from the same blanks of steel and have the same strengths. None any stronger than the other as far as case hardening etc. Cylinder walls are the same thickness chamber to chamber as well as chamber to outside. The revolvers are also, so called, tested at three times their max rated pressures.
Now what you must understand is that SAAMI specs are limited to a "weak link" in a specific cartridge. What firearm, case, chamber dimensions, etc is the weak link? What is the SAAMI specs for the 45-70? 28,000 cup...why? Because the weak link is the Trapdoor Springfield. But of course we know that loads up to 43,000cup is used in the Marlin rifles. The steel used today, aircraft 4140 which is much better than the early pre 1900s steels. It is also probable that you may can only use the high pressure case only once before it is too week to use again. I said maybe. I load my 44-40 large frame Buckhorn revolver to around 21,000 psi and we all know the max pressure for the 44-40 according to SAAMI is 13,000 cup. Many will tell you that the max for the 44-40 is due to the bottle neck...bullcrap....winchester made 22,000 pis high velocity rounds in 1902 for the 1894 rifles. Many have said the the week link for the 44-40 was the Winchester 73's weak action. But Uberti now makes the 73' chambered for the 44 magnum's 40,000 psi. Go figure! Improvements on the toggle link? I don't know....have yet to see one for myself. If you have the balls and money, go for it....but don't say it aint so just because someone said it aint so

All well and good, and known to this writer. But... and it's a big'un... when you work the details into a Powley calculator, for that 15.4 grains of 2400 you are already in the area of between 18,000 - 22,000 CUP and 19,000 - 23,000 PSI. Admittedly, it ain't real scientific, as it wasn't intended for this use... but... since we "know" the velocity for the 15.4 grain load, looking at it will give some indication of the range of pressure based on bullet length and seating depth to expect for that load. ADDING powder will ONLY ADD pressure.

Can one fire an load of 18grains of 2400 behind a 250 grain bullet in a .45 Colt SAA sized revolver or clone? Yes. How many times is the better question. And what damage is being done each time you do? Lyman's 49th lists 2400 for powders used in the TC Contender or Encore and charges in the 17.5 - 22 grain range with a 250 grain cast bullet and has velocity listings of between 1060 & 1410 in the 10" barrel.

I'd not hesitate to use loads in the 18 grain range in my 1892 Rossi or firearms of that class... say, a Ruger SBH. But, just as HiVel loads in .32WCF, 38WCF and 44WCF were ok in the original wincehster 1892, but were not for use in Colt SAAs or earlier toggle-link Winchester, I wouldn't recommend feeding any sort of diet of them in a Colt SAA or clones thereof.

Here's a picture of the flame cuts in the top strap of a Colt SAA that has only been feed factory ammo and handloads at that level and less. It's been in my possession since new (1979 production bought new in box in 1982), and has had several hundred thousand rounds thru it in SASS and used as a duty gun in specialized duties as a LEO.

It's a tad hard to see, but is discernible, right behind and above the barrel. Shoulda cleaned before I took these pics, what can I say? By the way, they were in there when the gun went off to be rebuilt, and the shop told me they were common, don't worry, but not to "hotrod" my ammo. As is known to most of you, slight differences in chamber dimensions, cyl. gaps, forcing cones and bore diameterrs exist from gun to gun; therefore, even if "x" load is safe & sane in one gun, it doesn't necessarily correlate that it will be in number two.