Paco's 30-30 loads

[azoil]

I am in the process of working on a 130 gr. Speer FN load for one of my Marlins, and of course wanted to utilize the info that Paco has supplied us in this endeavor. I have a Hodgdon #25 Manual but it has the same info that Paco states is in the #26 Manual, just a different page number. So, I feel I am on track so far. Then I reference the Speer #13 for the 130 gr. FN and see that it is considerably lower than the Hodgdon manual.

The Speer manual doesn't list a loading in the 130 gr. with H335 but after extrapolating out the number it would appear 33-35 gr. a reasonable max. load of H335 if they did have H335 listed in the 130gr. loads.

The Hodgdon manual shows a starting load of H335 of 36 gr. for the 125-130gr bullets. I planned to start 10% low and work up but am in a little bit of a quandary.

Is the Speer manual very conservative in their recommendations? Is it reasonable to use the Hodgdon manual and base my starting point 10% lower than the 36 gr stating load they recommend?

Has anyone else ran across this scenario in developing a load for the 30-30? If so, any advice?

What am I missing?

The following is from Paco's article on the Leverguns.com main site. http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/3030again.htm

I know for example the Hodgdon reloading data on page 314 of their #26 manual for the 100 grain bullet with 33 grains of H4198 gives 2837 fps from their 24 inch barrel. But that load only generates 32,000 CUP! Why are we stopping short? With 36 grains of the same powder we break 3150 fps and are running 39,500 cup. Sierra makes a superb 125 grain H.P. #2020 for the 30-30. Hodgdon states that 38 grains of H335 gives 2643 fps and 35,400 CUP with 125-130 grain bullets. Why stop short? 40 grains of H335 and the Sierra bullet will give 2975 fps and at a cost of 39,600 CUP. And that load will put deer down extremely fast.

Thanks for your input,

Dave

[JReed]

I would go with the 36gr starting load in the book and go from there.

[Paul105]

I read Paco's article and fooled around with some of the loads mentioned. I was using a 24" barreled Win 94 NRA Centineal. With the 125/130s, I never could get the velocities Paco reported. I ran into sticky extraction a couple of grains lower using H335 with velocity in lower 2,700 fps. I had a case head separation with 39.0gr of WW748 and 125gr Nos FP at 2,700 fps.

My results could be due to many factors. It could be my specific rifle, the lots of powder/cases I was using, a combination of all three (tolerance stacking), or who knows what.

One load that surprised me was a 180gr Horn Interbond with the plastic tip cutoff and single loaded. With 748, I got a consistent 2,250 fps with easy extraction and nice radiused primers. The 180 gr Hornady's were a batch of blems that I picked up cheap.

Anyway, I suggest you start at the low end and work your way up (standard load develop advice).

Paul

[Bloodhound]

I have 5 loading manuels that I use off and on, depending on what I am doing.

When comparing the data in the, I always notw what the company sells as a business.....Speer is bullets, Hornady is bullets, Nosler again Bullets, so if its a bullet concern, I tend to follow those books closely....

Hodgdon sells powder, VitaViorie(sp) sells powder, winchester sells powder, so if I ahave a powder issue, I lean towards the powder sellers for final guidence.

Paco has lots of experience, and the Hodgdon data follows his suggested loads...I would start there, and work it around to what your gun likes.

[LeverBob]

Good starting point Dave...If you know how to measure for pressure with a micrometer, then do so just ahead of the rim. Take a measurement on a new case, load it up & measure after you fire it. Do so with all the loads. If you get a measurement of .001, back off 2 grs. I stop when getting .0005 case head expansion & call it a maximum load. Bob Hagel gave me this advice back in the early sixties. Same advice from my Pa, just wanted it confirmed.

Hodgdons (sic) & Alliant are my favorite powder co.s. Looking forward to your reports.

LeverBob

[handirifle]

Bloodhound, good post. I'd SORTA thought on those lines but not like you described.

[Hobie]

Azoil,

I have to laugh, not at you, because there was a Gun Digest article written on this very subject of .30-30 loads and the seeming inconsistency, manual-to-manual by maker or edition, etc.

While powders have changed over the years (as have some bullets) and every gun is different you can usually start 10% below max and work up to find the max in your gun. (IME it is best when going for absolute max to do so in the heat of summer, not the cool/cold of winter.)

Using the case measurement method is useful when comparing the same case manufacturer to factory loads. I.e. shooting some factory loads using that mfg's brass and measuring that and comparing to your handloads using the same mfg's brass. Using the same lot is preferable but practically impossible.

There have been books written on the subject, I strongly suggest that reloaders buy and read as many as possible.

[Tycer]

Is the Speer manual very conservative in their recommendations?

After Omark bought Speer in 1975, they became more conservative on many loadings.

[JimT]

Is the Speer manual very conservative in their recommendations?

After Omark bought Speer in 1975, they became more conservative on many loadings.

My friend Alan Jones was the Editor of the last couple Speer Manuals and worked on some of the others. One of the things they did was switch from using pressure barrels as much as possible when recording velocities.

Instead they used the actual firearms.

This resulted in dramatic differences in many instances.

[Tycer]

Is the Speer manual very conservative in their recommendations?

After Omark bought Speer in 1975, they became more conservative on many loadings.

My friend Alan Jones was the Editor of the last couple Speer Manuals and worked on some of the others. One of the things they did was switch from using pressure barrels as much as possible when recording velocities.

Instead they used the actual firearms.

This resulted in dramatic differences in many instances.

Excellent! I do not have any of the newest Speer manuals Jim. Which one would you recommend?

[Old Savage]

Some of the Speer manual differences don't match general real world. The 308 vs 30-06 for instance or the 6mm Rem. I called them and talked to someone who stood by what they got in their individual rifles - they are well aware of this.

[PaulB]

I have discovered a method for eliminating all these problems: don't hotrod your loads, or even approach manual maximums. Stick with starting loads or just a bit warmer. The deer will never know the difference.

Trust me, it makes life much easier. That's what we're all after, isn't it?

(I admit I'm not consistent with this, but the older I get the more I go that route.)

[JimT]

Excellent! I do not have any of the newest Speer manuals Jim. Which one would you recommend?

Well .. the latest one has my picture in it.

If that is a recommendation.

[El Chivo]

in my limited exeperience I've noticed the smallest group has come with a starting load or close to it, and accuracy is paramount so no hot loads for me.

[Old Savage]

On the other side - the hottest factory loads - Federal - have produced the best accuracy in my 30-30s - one a 26", the other a 20".

[azoil]

On the other side - the hottest factory loads - Federal - have produced the best accuracy in my 30-30s - one a 26", the other a 20".

I have been fortunate, in my opinion, that most of my rifles have gotten the best accuracy with loads on the top end of the scale. However, there is definitely merit in sticking to the starting loads.

[Old Savage]

What merit - they go slower. Ah well, they kick less.