where's Terry Murbach??

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:15 pm

Pitchy wrote:
Ben_Rumson wrote:This is what we get guys when someone made the decision that nothing is “off limits”. The heck it is not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It now seems 90% is mostly off-limits and I for one am darned sick and tired of it!!!!!!!!!!!! Do we want one of the premier gun sites on the net trashed by simpleazzed questions from equally silly people???
I`m sick of this whole squable, if some can`t handle topics in the same place as levergun topics or stupid people posting or asking questions my suggestion is Hobie should create a general discussion forum and a leverguns only forum.

This is all making me sick worrying about this poor board becoming corrupted by idiots like me.
I`ll quit posting my ot threads.

Thick skin required here.....

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:35 pm

I will say that a "Guns Related" and "All Topics" section seems to make sense. I don't mind the "OT" threads, but some do so why not accommodate them? Sure seems like an easy fix...

Oly

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:18 pm

olyinaz wrote:I will say that a "Guns Related" and "All Topics" section seems to make sense. I don't mind the "OT" threads, but some do so why not accommodate them? Sure seems like an easy fix...

Oly

IMO, an accurate topic title should suffice....(or not

)

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:04 pm

Ben_Rumson wrote:This is what we get guys when someone made the decision that nothing is “off limits”. The heck it is not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It now seems 90% is mostly off-limits and I for one am darned sick and tired of it!!!!!!!!!!!! Do we want one of the premier gun sites on the net trashed by simpleazzed questions from equally silly people???

Pitchy,
Do not stop posting! (please)

Ben,
I read your post and I truly feel that is not accurate guy,here is why I say that.
(Someone made the decision that nothing is off limits)you are taking the intent of that comment and what was meant buy it wrong friend. here is why I say this---------

I think that was Hobie meaning "most anything" proper/non-offensive/non-vulgar/just a friendly general topic can be discussed.
(he was right in doing so)
No way/shape/form did he mean (trashing people/being rude/or anything else being out of line in what would be considered as such on here)

Besides-----most/or at least just as many of the problems have been from gun related issues anyway(what you would consider "on topic") do we next only talk about certain guns????

Let's remember to give our moderators(like Hobie)credit for all the work/fires to put out/time spent(without pay)and all the stuff we don't even know about running this Forum.Not sucking up,just thinking he really might be getting tired of all the drama?
keep pushing him too hard and he might just leave-----then were screwed!
said it before/say it again-----love the freedom to discuss interesting posts with you guys(you are like a second family)

Examples of some "OT"-----Prayers up needed/moral support needed/advice because someone really needs it/mild "venting" to us about something that has one of our fellow levergunners at wits end and need some mental relief/just lonely and wants to say Happy Birthday or God Bless America or whatever??

If the powers to be wants to separate them (am cool with that too)

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:07 pm

Regardless of what one might think of Terry... he's generated 5+ pages of comment without saying (typing a word). Might influencial personality.

And for what it's worth.. just how many times are you going to read, "what size bullet should I load in my .30-30?" before you go all ballistic on the next on? I know I've read more than one person refer someone to the search function to look for a previous discussion, or make the comment, (paraphrasing here) "I know the answer to your question, but I have neither the inclination nor the time to regurgitate the information I've learned/gleaned/extrapolated from the (insert # here) books that have been published over the last century or thru my 40+ years of experimenting with various components and combinations to answer to your question."

THAT was Terry's basic answer to stupid questions. But... I seem to recall that Terry always left the poster an opening... sorta along the lines of "...if you can somehow refine your question to something that won't take the Encyclopedia Brittanica to respond to, I'll give it a shot."

Maybe he wasn't always quite so polite about it... but, there were quite a few times that Terry beat me to posting that same basic reply. Say what you will... I learned something in almost every one of Terry's posts... sometimes it was only "learning thru the mistakes of others...." but is that always so bad?

Flame suit on.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:21 pm

I don`t know what to say, probably shouldn`t of said anything.
I`ve tried to be a nice guy and all my threads are for you guys, heck i don`t need to go too all the trouble of making videos and taking pictures. But i figured all was cool and i`m by far not the only person that posts OT.
You guys have helped me get through a lot of stress in my life and i`ve gotten close to many of you but i don`t want to have to wonder if i`m making someone mad everytime i post.
I had a bad day today, my son by married called and said he is getting married next year and because of family problems i won`t be able to attend.
I`m so sick of people being selfish and self centered it gets to me after a while.
I sure wish you guys that are knowledgeable about guns would come back and be helpful to those that need your advice.
There is never a dumb question and some people like me arn`t the sharpest knife in the drawer so ya never know i might need your help.
There`s plenty of room for everyone if everyone respects everyone else and treats others like they`ed like to be treated.
My pony may not be as fast as your fancy race horses but i can ride and shoot as good as any.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:31 pm

Pitchy wrote:I don`t know what to say, probably shouldn`t of said anything.
I`ve tried to be a nice guy and all my threads are for you guys, heck i don`t need to go too all the trouble of making videos and taking pictures. But i figured all was cool and i`m by far not the only person that posts OT.
You guys have helped me get through a lot of stress in my life and i`ve gotten close to many of you but i don`t want to have to wonder if i`m making someone mad everytime i post.
I had a bad day today, my son by married called and said he is getting married next year and because of family problems i won`t be able to attend.
I`m so sick of people being selfish and self centered it gets to me after a while.
I sure wish you guys that are knowledgeable about guns would come back and be helpful to those that need your advice.
There is never a dumb question and some people like me arn`t the sharpest knife in the drawer so ya never know i might need your help.
There`s plenty of room for everyone if everyone respects everyone else and treats others like they`ed like to be treated.
My pony may not be as fast as your fancy race horses but i can ride and shoot as good as any.

Well said bro!
Hang in there,who knows dude that wedding is a year away and all things Pitchy are possible.

It is possibly something could turn and you attend that festive occasion.
Prayers up you can Pitchy.
I feel the percentage of people being mad about your delightful Videos and Posts is in the .00005% range.

cowboykell · Post by **cowboykell** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:33 pm

Who is Terry Murbach??? I for one don't really care!!!!

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:39 pm

cowboykell wrote:Who is Terry Murbach??? I for one don't really care!!!!

Old Time levergunner (that really did know his stuff with guns)
Honestly we can learn and change and really hope if he is reading this would consider coming back.
We all could use his vast knowledge on guns and ammo!
I will say if it is anything I did, I am sorry and send a Prayers up for him!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:39 pm

madman4570 wrote:
Pitchy wrote:I don`t know what to say, probably shouldn`t of said anything.
I`ve tried to be a nice guy and all my threads are for you guys, heck i don`t need to go too all the trouble of making videos and taking pictures. But i figured all was cool and i`m by far not the only person that posts OT.
You guys have helped me get through a lot of stress in my life and i`ve gotten close to many of you but i don`t want to have to wonder if i`m making someone mad everytime i post.
I had a bad day today, my son by married called and said he is getting married next year and because of family problems i won`t be able to attend.
I`m so sick of people being selfish and self centered it gets to me after a while.
I sure wish you guys that are knowledgeable about guns would come back and be helpful to those that need your advice.
There is never a dumb question and some people like me arn`t the sharpest knife in the drawer so ya never know i might need your help.
There`s plenty of room for everyone if everyone respects everyone else and treats others like they`ed like to be treated.
My pony may not be as fast as your fancy race horses but i can ride and shoot as good as any.
Well said bro!
Hang in there,who knows dude that wedding is a year away and all things Pitchy are possible.
It is possibly something could turn and you attend that festive occasion.
Prayers up you can Pitchy.
I feel the percentage of people being mad about your delightful Videos and Posts is in the .00005% range.

+1
Questions are always welcome. It is the hallmark of an inquisitive mind. The leading edge of intelligence, if you will. And if some, by way of answer, ask another question, fret not, for sometimes it's the gist of the question that eludes the attempt to make an answer... and if by asking for a more definitive question, or some additional info, it's possible to get to the real underlying queston. There are subjects that I KNOW I don't know enough about to ask an intelligent question... that shouldn't stop me, nor should a short, curt answer discourage me... if I want to learn, I simply need to keep pluggin' away until I get to the real question I need to ask.

Now that that's settled... what is it about perpetual motion machines that make them so danged difficult to overcome?

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:45 pm

I had not opened this tread until today! I guess in a way I wish I hadnt now. I seen several comments from Tycer, Hobie and a few others that might imply the remaining members here are intellectually bankrupt! IMO, I have no issue with OT threads or a question that I already know the answer to. No I am not a gun rug writer and never proclaimed to be; most of them are more long winded than a baptist preacher yet seldom can you find a honest review due to their fear the big names will stop using them and they will be out of work.

Most of my shooting is while hunting, although I do enjoy getting on the range and burning powder as well. I may have well been one of those that insulted these fine mens intelligence by asking a stupid question. I SURE HATE IT FOR THEM, SORRY I DIDNT BOW IN REVERENCE!

I am not sure what most think of me, however I havent spent a lifetime worrying about that, so I wont start now. I will say, I enjoy the company of most if not all on here, and if you ask a question, while I may not agree, I wont be one to jump on you with both feet. IMO, attitudes of flaming people will only demish the quality of the forum. We would all be sitting around waiting for our next victim to post so that we could flog him immediately to show everyone how smart we were. (SARCASIM) The post thread count would drop to nothing and the forum would die.

I am sure this post may irritate some, however, my personality is you can like it or hate it. My family loves me none the less.

No ill feelings toward Terry but if that was his opinion, Happy Trails!

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:32 pm

madman4570 & others... My bad...FWIW The words I posted are Terry’s words de capitalized The original found here...http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 66#p467966
It's not how I feel about this place.. To the contrary...

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:35 pm

Understood Ben!

I think we all have stuff to contribute to this forum.
I for one(really compared to a lot of you guys on here )am kinda gun (not to sharp)honestly.
I did "think" I knew a lot about guns(till I came on here)

Just look at what we have on here??
Honest gun experts/Pro Hunters/Guides/Military Combat personal trained in the lastest weapons/along with past vets and their experience and knowledge.Handloaders buy the looks of their pics of their reloading rooms that look more like a shooting ammo store.

Hunters that are amazing/Students learning the trade/(always can learn)Heck we even have Doctors that love guns!
Guys, we have it all on here. We have friends here/people that actually give a rats behind about fellow forum members.

What you say we start a new day/wipe the slate totally clean right now/and everyone be happy we have each other on here to give us strength and draw from.
This country is in enough trouble outside of this forum that we don't need to be at each others throats.

So,with that I am erasing my black board and starting clean with new chalk .
I hereby apologize to anyone/everyone ever on here past/present that I have dealt with and hereby start anew.

God Bless ya all and here is to this forum(everybody)

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:41 pm

No group hugs, dangit....

Chris83716 · Post by **Chris83716** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:52 pm

Blaine can we at least sing "kum by ya" or however it is spelled?

Terry seemed okay to me. A tad bit sharp tongued, but most old curmudgeons are.

Chris

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:54 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:
slow2run wrote:What is the best conceal carry hand gun...
ARE YOU TRULY SO LAZY AND INNEPT YOU CANNOT FIND AND READ AT LEAST SOME OF THE 10,000 VOLUMES OF INFORMATION WRITTEN UPON THIS VERY SUBJECT IN THE PAST FIFTY YEARS. DO WE REALLY HAVE TO SPOON FEED YOU LIKE PABLUM TO A BABY ??? AT LEAST GO READ ENOUGH TO ASK AN INTELLIGENT QUESTION; HINT : THERE IS NO-NONE-NADA-ZILCHO " BEST "

THIS IS WHAT WE GET GUYS WHEN SOMEONE MADE THE DECISION THAT NOTHING IS " OFF LIMITS ". THE HECK IT IS NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT NOW SEEMS 90% IS MOSTLY OFF-LIMITS AND I FOR ONE AM darned SICK AND TIRED OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!! DO WE WANT ONE OF THE PREMIER GUN SITES ON THE 'NET TRASHED BY SIMPLEAZZED QUESTIONS FROM EQUALLY SILLY PEOPLE ???

Well (if I get to vote, since I'm just an ordinary forum member, instead of an expert

). . . actually, YES...

Those 'silly people' are the people we can help. Those are the people who some of will mature into seasoned levergunners, and others into people who move on to other interests, but at least have some positive feelings towards leverguns and levergunners, because they learned something about leverguns here, or maybe just read an 'off topic' thread and smiled, or learned something about building a chicken coop, repairing the front sight on a sixgun, or dealing with the loss of the family dog.

If it is supposed to be an elite forum where only experts can attend, and talk among themselves endlessly about the more esoteric aspects of leverguns, but no other topics allowed, and if anyone dares 'waste our time' with a stupid question, we rush to see who can post the most derogatory or condescending response, that's sure not the kind of forum I'd want to waste time on.

Some have mourned the "loss of the heart and soul of this forum" - I think it HAS a heart and soul, and probably always did have, but trying to 'sterilize' it into a leverguns-only forum for experts-only, is a SURE way to lose heart and soul.

There will ALWAYS be 'cantankerous' individuals, experts and otherwise, and 'newbies' on any forum or walking into any gunshop just have to hike up their pants and deal with it; if they read ten responses to a question, and two of them are sarcastic, at least there are eight others they can be helped by. Whenever anyone jumps on someone's case for asking a silly question, other posters quickly respond with more legitimate answers, and often publicly chide the sarcastic responders. That's the way it should be. Nobody needs 'banned' for asking stupid questions, and nobody needs 'banned' if they come across as cantankerous, whether or not they happen to be a real expert.

In other words. . . we CAN act like grownups, and if sometimes some of us don't, the rest of us just need to lead by example. I've had to be put back on the path a few times, myself.

As for Terry, I hope he's enjoying this thread, and I hope he's got a cold beer in the fridge waiting for him after he completes his next levergun project, and bunches of friends to come over and shoot it with. I don't even hope he signs up for a 'manners' class. Terry is Terry, and if he comes back I'll welcome him; if I'm in the right mood, I might even poke a verbal stick at him just to rile him up a bit, because I think he likes to be riled up. I see humor in the fact that he's generated all these pages of discussion, yet he's not even here!

And. . . for the funniest post of all in this thread (no offense Terry) . . .

cowboykell wrote:Who is Terry Murbach??? I for one don't really care!!!!

Glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I came across THAT little breath of fresh air...

Anyway, like my kids used to say on long car trips, "...are we there yet...?"

I say we all load up our favorite leverguns this weekend, take a 'newbie' shooting with us, and post range reports. That will give the "too many OT posts" crowd less to complain about.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:55 pm

Like I said Blaine
incorrigable

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:04 pm

Mescalero wrote:Like I said Blaine
incorrigable

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:35 pm

I guess I see it different here than some folks. As for Mr. Murdoch's remarks, I almost always end up laughing out loud at his cantankerous raves; part of the entertainment factor here! And I understand why he needs to use CAPS - easier on his eyes and fingers, these days - but honestly it adds to the humor!

I know what it is like to be truly flamed and trashed by a majority of posters on a gun forum. I outlined this earlier, and Hobie wisely left my complaint online for a while, and then just as wisely quietly deleted the whole thread after a period of time. Crafty dude, that Hobie. I got time to vent, Hobie didn't leave it here as a permanent epitaph that frankly trashes another forum (I still have no use for them, and have decided not to ever associate with its members at shoots or lift a finger to help their cause).

But this forum wisely regulates itself, for the most part. The real troublemakers don't seem to stay here very long. Mr. Murdoch is clearly rude at times, but you will always (almost always?) see somebody taking up the case for the poor battered new guy who falls victim to our resident curmudgeon's verbal assault.

For instance, I remember (and still start laughing about) when some gent from the United Kingdom joined our forum. Mr. Murdoch immediately labeled him a "limey" so-and-so and reminded him that his kin set fire to our White House, or something like that - really blasted the poor guy's ancestry. I'm starting to laugh now.

Then, I posted on that thread (to the poor targeted fellow) that he shouldn't take the assault personally, and that underneath it all Mr. Murdoch is really a gentle, kind soul. In fact, I said, a little known fact is that he is the Ambassador to Iran.

Yes, if everybody on this thread were a Murdoch, I would denounce this forum. They aren't. In fact, they can't be; very few of us have the insights and experience that Mr. Murdoch has, and he has earned his stripes. He's a character, and I really miss his acerbic entries!

...To paraphrase Mr. Murdoch's style - WHAT? YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT "ACERBIC" MEANS? WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO - HOLD YOUR HAND, WIPE YOUR SILLY NOSE AND DESCRIBE WHAT A DICTIONARY IS? GET OFF YOUR LAZY BACKSIDE AND LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF!

bobbyjack · Post by **bobbyjack** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:47 pm

I WILL MISS HIS POSTS AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH TYPING IN CAPS EXCEPT YOU NEED
TO USE A COMMA.OR JUST THE SPACE BAR OR ENTER ONCE IN A WHILE

TO MAKE IT EASIER TO READ!

SEE MUCH EASIER TO READ THIS WAY!

But even without all caps one should use the same type of system so all thewordsdon'truntogetheras
itmakesithardtoread!

Maybe thats what got everybodies haines in a bunch.

I enjoy Terrys posts on the Rug Rimfire .

Terry will be back when he is ready,please hurry back Terry.

Bob

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:40 am

J Miller wrote: WAY TOO darn MUCH IS MADE OF THE ALL CAPS THING. IF YOU CAN'T READ IT WITHOUT GETTING YOUR PANTIES IN A BUNCH, THEN DON'T READ IT!
Joe

Heeheehee - Ha Ha Ha! See? Makes me laugh!

DixieBoy · Post by **DixieBoy** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:18 am

Well, if Mr. Murbach (how's that for respect?) was to see the post devoted to him growing to six pages - and not done yet - maybe he'd like that.

I had mixed feelings about Terry too. He was/is without a doubt one of the most knowledgeable men who has posted here since I've been around. I got to thinking that he was sort of like our own R. Lee Ermey. You know the role he played in that commercial where he was a psychologist, and quickly blasts the sniveling wimp who's lying on the shrink's couch. Yes, that kind of thing used to make me laugh out loud. Hey, it WAS funny.

But, maybe I can explain why I say mixed feelings by telling you about a situation currently going on at the shooting range where I'm a member. We've got a bunch of "clubs within a club" here. When you join, you can shoot at a 50 foot pistol range, 50 yard rifle - standing or sitting, a 25, 100, 200 yard rifle (benched only) range, and then a bunch of shotgunning. However ... there is a whole lot going on that you have to inquire about, and then things can get a whole lot more fun.

We have "orientation" for our Action Areas, and once you do this you can shoot in any of 7 bays about 35 yards deep, you can holster your pistol, practice drawing, shoot steel plates, and generally have a ball. They shoot USPSA, IDPA, and Cowboy matches in these bays every month.

The rifle guys have a very cool 600 yard range, but you have to qualify. And the Bullseye guys have their own little area, and it is under lock and key. It's this last bunch that I think about when thinking about Terry and this thread.

Bullseye is, without a doubt, a highly skilled pistol shooting discipline. Here's the problem: alot of the older guys who shoot Bullseye are real butt heads. When my old college prof buddy and I went over to look at their area when we were new members a couple years back, we really got a bunch of attitude from these guys. We walked away just shaking our heads.

Lately it seems that the Bullseye guys don't have enough guys to shoot their matches the way they used to. Well geez, no kidding. The older guys pass on, or stop shooting because of age related difficulties. Over the past six months I've had a couple of the younger guys wander over to our Practice Pistol, watch me shooting, and then try to recruit me to shoot with them. These younger guys are smart enough to know that a shooting sport that's not bringing in new blood is a dying shooting sport. At our club, each of these areas I described brings in money to the club treasury. Dues alone don't cut it. So, the younger Bullseye guys realize that their area might vanish if they don't keep new blood coming in. It will be replaced by another shooting discipline that is more popular and brings in a bit more cash, by the club.

So, while I understand Terry's frustration at some of the kids who won't read, or open a book and learn a little something before they start spouting truly stupid questions (yes, there is such a thing as a stupid question), it's in all of our best interests to take a breath and try to help out if we can. The way I see it, a new shooter who gets the cold sholder might not be a shooter for long. We need all of the new shooters in this country that we can get. And if we get the chance to educate them, well then we've started them off on the right track.

As for some of the moaning and groaning about "oh, sniff, sniff, the forum isn't what it used to be ..." I say, PUL-EEEEZE !

How many forums have great guys like John DeFresno, who has kindly posted QuikLoad readouts for guys like me who want to know the pressures involved in .45 Colt loads we've been working on ?
How many forums have guys like Y2K, who shares all kinds of shooting adventures and learning experiences, and family joys with us ?
How many forums have a guy like Blaine, who is possibly the fastest punster I've ever heard of ?
How many forums have a guy like Pitchy, who takes the time to share his arrow-punctured outhouse with us ? (Okay, it was his outdoor shower).
How many forums have guys like Joe Miller, who has posted .45 Colt info and answers for guys like me, and a hundred other guys ?
How many forums have a guy like Hobie, who is possibly one of the most knowledgeable, decent, and quick witted guys anywhere ?
How many forums have a guy like rangerider7, who has shared just incredible Texas Ranger and Old West history and photos with us ?
How many forums have a guy like KirkD, who is so talented in photographing old leverguns that he could be a bigshot professional, and he shares them with us ! Not to mention his incredible load development for the guys shooting the old leverguns ?
How many forums have a guy like AJMD, who can shoot you with his tactical levergun, and then patch you up ? But you've got to listen to him go on about libertarian principles.

How many forums have guys like gamekeeper and nath, who continue to not only keep the faith in un-gun-friendly England, but share shooting and hunting experiences in England with us ?
How many forums have guys like 86er, who has more hunting experience and knowledge than any one person I've ever met, and he shares this stuff with us !
How many forums have guys like sixgun, who is already cornering Terry's title as a shooting curmudgeon, and knowledgeable to boot ?

There are dozens more great guys I could list here, but you get the gist.

In conclusion, how many forums have such a wealth of knowledge among so many different members, in so many different areas of shooting, hunting, shooting and old west history, and on and on ?

Your honor, I rest my case. (Theme from Perry Mason begins here...)

- DixieBoy

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:30 am

[quote="JohndeFresno"]; very few of us have the insights and experience that Mr. Murdoch has, and he has earned his stripes. [quote]

Thats a true statement to a "degree" . To be totally honest you don't know what insight or ability most of the people here have and I certainly don't . So who's to say .

As for the person this whole dribble started about , to be totally honest I'd never heard of the guy until I came here . Later I looked around for some of his "works" and to be honest I didn't find much . Now by that I mean stuff written for actual printed magazines .

So forgive me if I DO NOT hold him in cult status . To each his own . There are some writers that I thought alot of their written word ( most deceased). But this fellow is not one of them .

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:20 am

The only advice Terry gave me on a gun related topic was to buy a tube of Preparation H..I'm still laughing at that one..

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:23 am

I hold a similar view. I've asked quite a few 'new guy' questions and Terry's answers were generally self-serving, whereas usually someone else like Hobie or Rimfire McN or John DF would nail it for me.

If he wants to have fun with beginners, fine, but someone else is going to get the lifetime achievement award for helping beginners learn about shooting.

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:21 am

Griff wrote:
madman4570 wrote:
Pitchy wrote:I don`t know what to say, probably shouldn`t of said anything.
I`ve tried to be a nice guy and all my threads are for you guys, heck i don`t need to go too all the trouble of making videos and taking pictures. But i figured all was cool and i`m by far not the only person that posts OT.
You guys have helped me get through a lot of stress in my life and i`ve gotten close to many of you but i don`t want to have to wonder if i`m making someone mad everytime i post.
I had a bad day today, my son by married called and said he is getting married next year and because of family problems i won`t be able to attend.
I`m so sick of people being selfish and self centered it gets to me after a while.
I sure wish you guys that are knowledgeable about guns would come back and be helpful to those that need your advice.
There is never a dumb question and some people like me arn`t the sharpest knife in the drawer so ya never know i might need your help.
There`s plenty of room for everyone if everyone respects everyone else and treats others like they`ed like to be treated.
My pony may not be as fast as your fancy race horses but i can ride and shoot as good as any.
Well said bro!
Hang in there,who knows dude that wedding is a year away and all things Pitchy are possible.
It is possibly something could turn and you attend that festive occasion.
Prayers up you can Pitchy.
I feel the percentage of people being mad about your delightful Videos and Posts is in the .00005% range.
+1
Questions are always welcome. It is the hallmark of an inquisitive mind. The leading edge of intelligence, if you will. And if some, by way of answer, ask another question, fret not, for sometimes it's the gist of the question that eludes the attempt to make an answer... and if by asking for a more definitive question, or some additional info, it's possible to get to the real underlying queston. There are subjects that I KNOW I don't know enough about to ask an intelligent question... that shouldn't stop me, nor should a short, curt answer discourage me... if I want to learn, I simply need to keep pluggin' away until I get to the real question I need to ask.

Now that that's settled... what is it about perpetual motion machines that make them so danged difficult to overcome?

PLUS 1

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:40 am

6pt-sika wrote:...To be totally honest you don't know what insight or ability most of the people here have and I certainly don't ...

I'm surprised that Sika is unaware that Terry was on staff for two major publications and was a ballistician for two leading companies - one was Corbon, as I recall.

I do agree that there are dozens of posters here who have 100 times the knowledge and experience that I have.

When I joined this forum just a few years ago, I was a new reloader. And one of my first questions concerned the best hollowpoint cast bullet for pig hunting! But thank you for the kind words, DixieBoy and El Chivo.

As for the question at hand, although the following quote may seem a bit melodramatic, it nevertheless reflects my true sentiments about losing one of our many colorful participating members of this great site. Replace the word "death" with "loss", since Terry is still alive and well! The reflection below was in fact used as a preface to Ernest Hemingway's masterpiece, "For Whom a Bell Tolls":

No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.

John Donne, Meditation XVII
English clergyman & poet (1572 - 1631)

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:59 pm

JohndeFresno wrote:I'm surprised that Sika is unaware that Terry was on staff for two major publications and was a ballistician for two leading companies - one was Corbon, as I recall.

While I do not know what you say to be fact i do believe what you say to be true .

I am however a bit curiouse as to what publications they may have been .

But to be honest even with this bit of info it does little to change my opinion . Kinda bad that he had already rubbed me the wrong way before I foung out he was a "gun writer" .

Heck if someone hadn't given me one of Paco Kelly's books about 9 years ago and I Googled his name I wouldn't have found this place !

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:24 pm

Doesn't surprise me that you did not know because long as I have been here I did not know either. Doesn't matter - on the one hand invite people to ask questions and on the other hand tell them to go away and look it up for yourself.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:04 pm

The Internet is just another way humans interact with each other. Sometimes that is good, sometimes not so much. Like all technologies, it promised more than it delivered.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:22 pm

This isnt just about Terry its what Hobie posted a while back about plain talking people. There are some people that need signs to make it thru life like "Thin Ice" others dont need a sign , 3 that I know that are not posting here now dont need a sign. danny

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:53 pm

When you green horns get miffed and bothered, by the grouchy old coots, please remember that the old coots were young once and you have only been young. They know things about life, living and people that you don't. Age and experience gives you a perspective that you only get by...well..age and experience. When you get the age and experience and find yourself a grouchy old coot, just remember to eat your words without rancor.

The Old Coots learned what they know by reading and then doing what they read. If things didn't work, the read and did some more. When they were done, they knew what they new because they had done it. These days folks don't read books, they go to Wikiwhatever and look for the classic comics version of learning. They are Google learners. Then come to sites like think thinking it is gun google or wikigun. This is just the way things are now.

Many of the Old Coots see this trend in action and think these new google/wiki folks are lazy and parasitic. They feel these folks want to be spoon fed and not do the hard digging and learning for themselves.

So what we have here is "a failure to communicate" accross ways of learning. Everybody gets miffed at each other and the game is afoot..tally ho the fox! I don't think there is a right or wrong way, just a totaly different way of looking at things.

So we should withhold judgment on each other. That gets to be very hard at times, because I am indeed a grouch old coot. My instincts are to tell them to go read a book as well. Me telling them that, won't cause them to read a book or become a self feeder. It creates heat and not light.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:07 pm

Well said Charles. danny

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:22 pm

BigSky56 wrote:Well said Charles. danny

Yup. To a degree. On the other hand, as we get older (I'm no spring chicken), let's face the facts and quit flattering ourselves. We just get a bit grouchy because that's what old coots do! It's largely a physical, chemical and energy thing, not entirely a "deserved" attitude because we've "seen stuff" in our journeys.

It's still a good idea to try to stay reasonably civil to those who are asking legitimate, reasonable "new guy" questions.

I have visited our local primary schools a few times in the last 30 years. I see the increasing use of computers with censored Internet connections (no gun searches possible); increased use of audiovisual aids; and a society where grammar school kids carry their iPods and cell phones. It is largely OUR fault, not theirs, that they have been raised into an electronically spoon fed society of youngsters demanding instant gratification and answers.

Thank goodness they decide to come here, where many experts and many more regular Joes like me reside, so that they can enjoy the forum and expand the base of informed shooters, sportsmen, and armed citizens.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:01 pm

I have a lot to learn for sure and man I will suck up what you guys will share.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:09 pm

Mr. Murbach, i don`t know you nor do i know what led to all this in the past and it really isn`t important to me.
I`m sorry ya get upset about some of my OT threads but as you know you just don`t have to look at those.
Nothing personal with me and no hard feelings here and agree that some young people can get rude sometimes but so can old fanny burbs like us.
As far as reading books well i can`t read worth a darn and it hasn`t stopped me from building some neat things, we all are gifted in different ways.
Hope ya stick around, nice enough to meet ya, God Bless and take care.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:44 pm

I just smile and have warm, fuzzy feelings for all my fellow man.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:00 pm

BlaineG wrote:I just smile and have warm, fuzzy feelings for all my fellow man.

Don't be saying stuff like that you almost caused me to loose my dinner

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:03 pm

6pt-sika wrote:
BlaineG wrote:I just smile and have warm, fuzzy feelings for all my fellow man.

Don't be saying stuff like that you almost caused me to loose my dinner

My job is done here.....

Charles, have you tried out that new-fangled Colored TV?

william iorg · Post by **william iorg** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:30 pm

"I am however a bit curiouse as to what publications they may have been ."

6Pt, The Murbach article Ienjoyed most was the one mentioned in my post: "The Trail Masterpeice" from the Guns & Ammo Annual - 1991.

Not an earth shattering piece of writing but good enough to cost me several hundred dollars....

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:36 pm

Wow an article 21 years ago.

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:02 pm

Charles wrote:When you green horns get miffed and bothered, by the grouchy old coots, please remember that the old coots were young once and you have only been young. They know things about life, living and people that you don't. Age and experience gives you a perspective that you only get by...well..age and experience. When you get the age and experience and find yourself a grouchy old coot, just remember to eat your words without rancor.

The Old Coots learned what they know by reading and then doing what they read. If things didn't work, the read and did some more. When they were done, they knew what they new because they had done it. These days folks don't read books, they go to Wikiwhatever and look for the classic comics version of learning. They are Google learners. Then come to sites like think thinking it is gun google or wikigun. This is just the way things are now.

Many of the Old Coots see this trend in action and think these new google/wiki folks are lazy and parasitic. They feel these folks want to be spoon fed and not do the hard digging and learning for themselves.

So what we have here is "a failure to communicate" accross ways of learning. Everybody gets miffed at each other and the game is afoot..tally ho the fox! I don't think there is a right or wrong way, just a totaly different way of looking at things.

So we should withhold judgment on each other. That gets to be very hard at times, because I am indeed a grouch old coot. My instincts are to tell them to go read a book as well. Me telling them that, won't cause them to read a book or become a self feeder. It creates heat and not light.

Thank you Charles.

william iorg · Post by **william iorg** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:03 pm

"Wow an article 21 years ago."

Yes, but memorable. When I think of Terry this is the article I think of first. It's the same with Seyfried, his best articles are 20 years old. The 1980’s and ‘90’s was a pretty good time for the hand gunner.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:03 am

I think it's too bad that in the shooting sports many of those with experience tend to shun and take advantage of newcomers. Like the poster who described the old pharts at his gun club, I've had that experience at the silhouette club and rarely shoot there anymore - it adds an unpleasant dimension to the day's experience. Taking advantage of those who know less than you, just for sport, reveals something about your character. I don't think anyone has an obligation to share their knowledge or answer dumb questions, but maybe pass up a thread if you don't want to be helpful.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:38 am

El Chivo wrote:I think it's too bad that in the shooting sports many of those with experience tend to shun and take advantage of newcomers. Like the poster who described the old pharts at his gun club, I've had that experience at the silhouette club and rarely shoot there anymore - it adds an unpleasant dimension to the day's experience. Taking advantage of those who know less than you, just for sport, reveals something about your character. I don't think anyone has an obligation to share their knowledge or answer dumb questions, but maybe pass up a thread if you don't want to be helpful.

Even as an old Phart that knows (kinda) his way around a shotgun, when the New Guy shows up for a round of Sporting Clays, I'm in for a crappy day, for the most part....I don't go anymore just because of that...I'll toss birds with a buddy, instead...lot's more fun (and a round of clays is up to about 30-35 bucks for a hundred birds plus shells....) AND, I don't have to put up with "stuff" about my SxS Baikal 12 that ain't cool and expensive.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:35 pm

Blaine... Yep, I am in to color TV. Have not had a B&W since 1983. I even have an Ipad plus a truck with AC and sat radio. I am still leary of the flying machine though. I think they are just fad that will pass.

I have never known any generation that did not think the subsequent generation was "going to hell in a hand basket". Mostly they have been correct, but we seem jump out of that basket and keep plugging along anyway. Go figure!

I don't know any shooters with high dollar fancy guns. The guys I shoot with use low end guns and do just fine. I am talking about pistol match shooting. The younger shooters eat our lunch at the matches. We have to have a Wednesday "Geezer Only Match" to have a level playing field and any hope of winning. The young folks have the eyesight and hand-eye coordination all in their favor. We geezers may have more knowledge and experience, but that doesn't mean squat when the Range Master says "fire".

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:38 pm

El Chivo... How do the "old pharts" as you call them "take advantage" of the younger set? That I do not understand, and think you should be specific with that allegation.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:17 pm

Well, I also haven't had black and white since BUT I have the same TV I bought in 1983

. My son said watching me stand and looking the TV - Dad, nobody looks at the floor to watch TV anymore.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:14 pm

Charles wrote:El Chivo... How do the "old pharts" as you call them "take advantage" of the younger set? That I do not understand, and think you should be specific with that allegation.

Charles, re-read Dixieboy's post and see if you still want to play dumb.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:34 pm

El Chivo wrote:
Charles wrote:El Chivo... How do the "old pharts" as you call them "take advantage" of the younger set? That I do not understand, and think you should be specific with that allegation.
Charles, re-read Dixieboy's post and see if you still want to play dumb.

Chivo..I am guess I am dumber than even you think, as I have read and reread Dixieboy's two posts on this thread and see nothing about "old pharts taking advantage of younger folks". I don't see anything that can be construed as such.

But, let Dixieboy speak for himself, my question was to you and not to him...I asked YOU to be specific about YOUR allegations. So put up or shut up! Just how do the old fanny burbs take advantage of younger shooters. You made the assertion, so how about some facts.