357mag Levergun Accuracy

[COSteve]

I'm constantly amazed at the accuracy of my Rossi leverguns and the 357mag cartridge. Take yesterday for instance. My son and I went out to the range and had a ball shooting. I got a 'wild hair' and took two bowling pins out to the 300yd berm and set stood them up. After dialing in my tang sight on my 24" Rossi for 300yds, I took out my Berry's HP 158grn plated 357mag rounds loaded with 16.7grns of H110 and CCI SPM primers and set it on my rest. I'd replaced the insert in my globe front sight from an aperture to a thin post and with 14rds loaded up I gave them a go.

We had a stiff but constant crosswind I had to dope for but I was able to knock both pins down in 13 rounds! Those pins are only about 4½" wide so that's approaching 1 MOA accuracy. My son was astounded as he watched through the spotting scope and called my shots. He told me that all of the misses were within a couple 3 inches of hitting the pins. And we're talking a pistol round with a blunt nose bullet profile, not a spitzer shaped, wind bucking rifle bullet.

I just love the 357mag in a levergun! Accurate, easy shooting, inexpensive, good performance on deer size and down game (when taken at reasonable ranges), and all wrapped up in an American classic, a Win '92 style levergun. Slim, sleek, well balanced, rugged, absolutely beautiful to look at and a joy to pick up, shoulder, and fire. Did I mention I just love my leverguns?

[hightime]

Dang, I've got to get me one!

I did get a buck with the 357 mag Beretta Stampede a couple years ago, very short range, maybe 50'.
At that range I couldn't bring myself tp shoot him with the 45-70.


Owen

[Old Savage]

Steve, YESTERDAY was April 1st. No, seriously, nice shooting. Bullet has to land somewhere - might as well be where you want it.

[L_Kilkenny]

Just dreaming of the day when/if they allow us to hunt with those in lieu of the nasty ol' shotguns we have to lug around today.

Good shooting, LK

[COSteve]

Steve, YESTERDAY was April 1st. No, seriously, nice shooting. Bullet has to land somewhere - might as well be where you want it.

You know, you're right. I didn't even think of that and no, my post isn't a joke. I had such a great time this weekend with my son being down I guess I lost track of what the date was.

[madman4570]

Steve,
Knowing you are a man that likes good quality stuff and really do go the extra mile to verify all you report on, I would try one of these Rossi's myself. That is very impressive stuff.
Being you are continually being impressed with these guys and that is saying something. I think I might buy one in .357 Mag

Actually with proper loads that gun sounds like a winner for my daughter and her first deer hunt??(which exact one would you get for her)? barrel length etc?

Great post-----------Thanks

ps---------isn't it great there are some companies that are putting out darn good stuff and doing it very well priced for customers to enjoy

[FatJackDurham]

Out of curiosity, do you know your Rossi's twist rate? I have an Interarms Rossi 357 and mine is 1-30. I have not had good accuracy so far with mine, even at 100 yards. The "calculators" seem to indicate I would need 2300 fps for a 158 grain bullet to stabilize.

So, just curious if your Rossi is a Braztech or an Interarms, and what the twist rate is.

[kimwcook]

Can't complain about that performance.

[Old Ironsights]

A couple of years ago I did something similar - I went to a KD range and shot the course with my Rossi (no tang sight) against the normal collection of FALs/HKs/Garands & ARs (I ran it mostly with the M1 group because of more equivalent Mag volumes).

While I didn't shoot "well" I still "qualified" - much to the surprise of my compatriots.

(ridiculous hold-over/windage @ 300 - but got it figured out... The front sight needed to be about 12" high & 12" left over the left shoulder of the 300m silhouette to get a center-mass hit)

Not what I'd want to use for a >150yd run & gun, but good enough from a fixed position if necessary...

[AJMD429]

Dang, I've got to get me one!

Double-dang, I've GOT one, but I need to work up a good load and dial it in.

As far as the potential of the .357 Mag and its 'small pistol bullet', remember that the .32-20 was for years regarded as a premier target round, and I don't think they had those tall tang sights on 'em just to shoot at 50-100 yards.

I think the real 'secret' is not so much in the gun or chambering, but in the fact that COSteve likes it so much he's devoted his time and considerable experience and skills to developing THE load that works its magic in that gun. We should all do more of that ourselves.

[COSteve]

Out of curiosity, do you know your Rossi's twist rate? I have an Interarms Rossi 357 and mine is 1-30. I have not had good accuracy so far with mine, even at 100 yards. The "calculators" seem to indicate I would need 2300 fps for a 158 grain bullet to stabilize.

So, just curious if your Rossi is a Braztech or an Interarms, and what the twist rate is.

First of all, it doesn't matter who imports them, Braztech, LSI, or Interarms because they are all made by Rossi and they all have 1:30 twist. (BTW, Rossi did make some for Navy Arms with nicer walnut stocks but even they have the same barrels.) I have excellent accuracy with both my 24" rifle and 20" carbine, however, both were made in 2009.

They both will shoot Berry's, Rainier, and E-treme's 158grn plated as well as Zero's JSP in both 125grn and 158grn with excellent results. That said, I have heard that some of the older Rossis made in the early 90's were a bit rough and some had barrels rifled too large, similarly to the issues some of their 45 colt barrels have. You may have a slightly oversize bore and I don't know what you could do with that short of getting a new barrel.

You might want to give Nate (Steve of Steve's Gunz) a call and talk to him about possible remedies or even him looking it over because he is 'the man' when it comes to Rossis.

I did take a bit of time getting the load my rifle likes. While it turns out that I settled upon Hodgdon's max recommended charge for the 158grn JSP of 16.7grns of H110, I am using it with a SRM primer vs the recommended SP primer because it produces more consistent velocities for me. Both my rifle and carbine like that load. I discussed the magnum vs standard primer here just this morning on the second page of THIS THREAD.

BTW, I also found another sweet spot with my Zero JSPs at 17.8grns but that is significantly over SAAMI spec for the 357mag and only something I use occasionally in my Rossi.

[FatJackDurham]

Thanks for the info. I'll read that thread.

I haven't been home yet from getting back this morning from Vacation, but the UPS site says my new Chrony is waiting for me. As well, I ordered a couple different sizes of lead bullets, .358s and .359s. I can't wait to try them out.

I slugged my bore and it came out at .358 with .357 choke points around the barrel bands.

However, the biggest impediment for determining the accuracy seems to be my astinkmatism. I bought a receiver mount scope rail and I intend to spend time this week and weekend working with the scope, chrony, and various loads to try to dial in a good load.

Do you prefer H110 over I/H2447?

[El Chivo]

I also find my .357's to be my most accurate. I also think it's the loads. I've struggled with 30-30 and mostly feel cheated.

One thing is the 158's are fairly short and therefore easier to stabilize (with a round ball being inherently the most stable). I've heard of 30-30's going end over end at distance.

[Booger Bill]

I own a browning 92 in .44 mag and a rossi 92 in .357. I also own a 94 winchester 30-30 I bought new around 1957. On that one I installed a foolproof and a pad for LOP as I was a big kid. Obvisely I have more experiance with the 94 haveing shot a number of deer with it many years ago. I like the .357 to shoot more than the .44 mag, as it doesnt kick as much and a little more sweeter from that aspect. I confess I havent really worked with the 92s much yet. The foolproof on the 94 has always been dead on for me without haveing had to readjust it in the last 55 years! I really see that I need a peep on the 92s. What peep would you guys put on them? I once shot a buck at about 220 yards with the 94. Last big question is, How does the .357 really stack up against the 30-30 in accuracy and range and killing power between the 92 copys and the 94 in your opinion? I would guess the trajectory is better with the 30-30. Thinking about it, I belive the 30-30 kicks a little more even with 150 grainers than the .357 does with 158s in the .357. Why should there be much differande? I have also installed those tie on leather pads on the 92s for LOP. We ride quad a lot in the wilderness here. I always have carried revolvers on the trails but now we have a lot of illegal cartel MJ farmers here in the boonies plus now there also is a crazy fugitive mountain man type that has burglared over two dozzen cabins and made them his "home" when they are snowed in, in winter. He has left threating notes telling owners to get off "his" mountain and left a note telling the sheriff he was going to put him in the ground. He has been operateing in the high country for over 7 years now in much of my favorite rideing area in the high country above us. I think I am going to start takeing a rifle along. I also own a nice peep sighted 760 remington pump 30-06. While I also own a armfull of nice scoped bolts, I am wanting to pack one of my lighter rifles that isnt quite as exspedsive to knock around, plus I like the rifle to be a little faster than a bolt. What would you use? I also have a 308 winchester 88 and a bar 30-06 both scoped. What would you guys carry for that situation? [img]

[tman]

Thank you! I always thought the .357 magnum, in a rifle or handgun, was trully one of the most usefull cartridges ever. If you shoot close up u can kill everything in North America from small game to bear, if you know how to shoot. Modern gunwriters don't want to recall that in a handgun, the .357 killed everything on the planet.

[JohndeFresno]

...I got a 'wild hair' and took two bowling pins out to the 300yd berm...We had a stiff but constant crosswind I had to dope ...I was able to knock both pins down in 13 rounds! Those pins are only about 4½" wide...approaching 1 MOA accuracy....Did I mention I just love my leverguns?

That is impressive shooting! Quite an eye opener. Thanks for the posts, Steve.

[FWiedner]

My .357's not perfect, but I can hit what I aim at sometimes...

[gundownunder]

With factory ammo or jacketed projectiles my .357 Marlin will group into under 1 inch at 50 all day. With cast it will open out to 2" or more and up to 6" with some 158 grain loads. A good cast load for me is 180 grains with a good sized helping of 4227 or other rifle powder.
I think if you can afford to feed it jacketed ammo it is an absolute peach, but if you need to use cast like I do, there are probably a number of better calibers out there.
I keep talking about ditching my .357, I keep thinking about ditching my .357, I keep procrastinating about ditching my .357, But hell, at the end of the day there just isn't anything else out there that's nearly as much fun as shooting my .357. (please don't tell my missus that I said that )

[1894c]

Thank you COSteve...great report...I have two Marlin 1894C's in .357 mag. and they also have become my favorite rifle and cartridge. My hunting buddies think I was crazy when I showed up last year with it, but they all enjoyed shooting it... :)

[COSteve]

Besides being so darn fun to shoot, I'm amazed at how cheap they can be reloaded. I handload mine for 13.1¢ per round using Berry's 158grn HP plated bullets and they work really well too. With 125grn Berry's it's even cheaper at 11.7¢ per round. At that price I can't see buying a 22mag rifle because the ammo prices are more than what I can handload my '92 for.

[Old Ironsights]

Besides being so darn fun to shoot, I'm amazed at how cheap they can be reloaded. I handload mine for 13.1¢ per round using Berry's 158grn HP plated bullets and they work really well too. With 125grn Berry's it's even cheaper at 11.7¢ per round. At that price I can't see buying a 22mag rifle because the ammo prices are more than what I can handload my '92 for.

And if you cast your own... well, Wheel Weights are still relatively available (for now) and brings the reload cost down to the sub 5¢ per round range...

[retmech]

I have 2 Rossi Braztecs a 20" and 24" in .357. I shoot nothing but cast bullets and both guns are accurate. For lower velocity rounds they like the Lee 125 RNFP best at about 1200 fps and the Lee 158 TLSWC at about 1100 fps. These will both hold 3moa accuracy out to 200 yds. For serious work the Lyman "Keith" 173 gr bullet over a max load of 296 runs about 1650 fps and will also do 3 moa out to 200 yds. Both guns have peep sights and the carbine has a 2X pistol scope for load development.Here are a couple 10 shot 100 yd groups with the Lee 125 and Keith.

[CalvinMD]

My Marlin is also a tackdriver....my loads of 170 JHP Sierras over Ramshot Enforcer or H110 group sub 1" at 50 and a hair over 1.8" at 100yds if the day is calm...it bowls the steel plates over with authority at 150yds too...don't know if I would try Bambi at that distance but would at 100yds for sure...nice guns everyone

P.S. I must admit to cheating as my gun has a scope...no way my old peepers can handle irons anymore

[FatJackDurham]

Nuts. It's only tuesday. I won't be able to get to the range until saturday... All yall are posting this and that, and I have 100 grain, 125 grain, and 140 grain bullets ready to go, my chrony arrived, and I got my Steven's back from relining.....

three more days...

[KCSO]

At a friends shoot one time he asked about the Rossi I carried in the trunk as an adjunct to my 357 revolver. I pulled the gun out sat down at the bench and put 5 rounds into a playing card at a measured 100 yards. I'll have to quote John Wayne hre, "there's some who are better with a shot gun than me". I carried that advantage from 1973 to 1990 and it served me well.

[jackruff]

My Marlin 1894C made in 1980 is great fun to shoot, and I think it should be more than adequate for deer at the ranges we shoot them here in south Mississippi. While I've killed several deer with my 1894ss .44 magnum, I've yet to shoot one with my .357. That may need to change. It has a Skinner peep on it, and it likes JSP 158 grain bullets loaded with 2400 powder.

[Newtmaker]

CO Steve is right, the Rossi's are a hoot to shoot. I wish I had access to some long range target shooting, but our club range is only 100 meters.
I shot these at 50 meters and then shot some at 100 to see where they were hitting. Surprisingly the 125g loads were only an inch lower. On the 140g loads I had to hold 3" high to get back close to the center. These targets show the difference in the POI of the two rounds, both with 17.5g H-110. POA in both was the center.

Walt