Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

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Charles
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Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by Charles »

Many years ago, when I was young, limber and could jump a three rail fence, I saw an ad in the local newspaper place by a guy having what we would call today a "garage sale" and it said there was a rifle in the mix. I headed over there and asked the fellow about the rifle. He pointed to a large levergun resting between the studs of the garage wall. I recognized it as a Winchester 1886 with a sawed off barrel. It was in caliber 40-82 and the inside of the barrel was a total loss. He wanted $25.00 and I offered him $20 which he took.

In those days, you could only ship firearms by Railway Express, as there was no UPS, FedX or anything like that. I sent the rifle to P.O. Ackley in Utah with instruction to rebore it to 45-70, cut off the butt flat and install a recoil pad while filling in the little wood divot on top left over from the crescent butt plate. In the fullness of time, a train pulled back in and I received a post card from the Railway Express office that a package was there for me.

Ackley had done as requested and a good job at that. I now had a 1886 in 45-70 with a flat butt and a 19" barrel. I added a Redfield Sourdough front sight and a Lyman 66 rear receiver sight. I cast up a bunch of the old Gould 330 grain hollow points and loaded them as recommened by Keith in his articles on the subject. The rifle was sighted in and the best I could get was 3" at 100 yard groups. I figured that was good enough and used that rifle to hunt Texas Hill Country Whitetail for about three or four years. When I was sitting on a stand I would use a flat shooting scoped rifle, but when I took to the hills on foot, I would grab the old Winchester. I managed to put four or five deer down with that rifle and it did a great job.

That dear friends is how the Guide Gun came into being. I thought you might like the real story. Marlin never has given me proper credit. :-)
Last edited by Charles on Fri May 25, 2012 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by Old Ironsights »

Charles wrote:... I now had a 1886 in 47-40 with a flat butt and a 19" barrel...
A 47-40 eh?

I'd like to see the loading data for that... :wink:
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walks with gun
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by walks with gun »

Did you chubby up the stock so it looks and feels like a rough cut 2x4, I'll bet not, Marlin gets all the credit for that.
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by Nath »

:lol:

Nice story :)

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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by AJMD429 »

I'll bet there were some old fogies at the time who would have told you you were nuts to 'ruin' such a fine gun, and that it was blasphemy to have such a short barrel on a .45-70...
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by Old Ironsights »

AJMD429 wrote:I'll bet there were some old fogies at the time who would have told you you were nuts to 'ruin' such a fine gun, and that it was blasphemy to have such a short barrel on a .45-70...
and yet, ol' LeBoeuf was mighty fond of his Sharps Carbine... what was the bbl length on those... 21"? :mrgreen:
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C. Cash
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by C. Cash »

Great story Charles.....what ever happened to the rifle?
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Charles
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by Charles »

About 1965 or so I traded it for something else I wanted more. Lots of guns passed through my hands in those days because I did not have enough money to feed my addiction to guns without lots or trading.
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by C. Cash »

Yes Sir.....been there done that.
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by M. M. Wright »

Great story Charles and I know exactly what you mean about the need to feed the addiction. Just try to not get hooked on Colt SAA, they are a very expensive addiction. I just can't seem to pass up an old beat-up reprobate that is priced in my ball park. I have this urge to get them shooting again and it seems never to be economically feasible.
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geobru
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by geobru »

Someone else had a similar idea. This is a 45-90 "Guide gun" that I bought. I don;t think I will make a shotgun burr out of this wood though!

Image
Last edited by geobru on Sat May 26, 2012 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
C. Cash
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by C. Cash »

Don't usually like half mag tubes, but there is something very right and classy with that setup! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Chuck 100 yd
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

WOW !! I knew P.O. was good but I did not know he could bore out a .47 caliber barrel to .45 caliber. Man that is GOOD!! :shock:
Charles
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by Charles »

Chuck 100 yd wrote:WOW !! I knew P.O. was good but I did not know he could bore out a .47 caliber barrel to .45 caliber. Man that is GOOD!! :shock:
It was a 40-82 WCF Ackley rebored to a 45-70 Govt.. But you knew that didn't you! The typo correction was made the day before you posted your shock and awe. You were just trying to be cute at my expense.
wecsoger
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by wecsoger »

That dear friends is how the Guide Gun came into being. I thought you might like the real story. Marlin never has given me proper credit.

As litigious (for my Kentucky relatives, that means we sue people a lot) as we are today, maybe you can hook up with some smart big city lawyer who can take this to court.

Claim prior art and patent rights, Who knows. You might get your name engraved on a butt stock somewhere as a special edition. (grin)
Chuck 100 yd
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

Charles, You are OK !
Lots of guys would have jumped down my throat for doing that.
It`s good you claimed rightful credit for the Guide Gun. You know lots of guys would never have known who to blame it on.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Chuck 100 yd on Sat May 26, 2012 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by Old Ironsights »

Charles wrote:About 1965 or so I traded it for something else I wanted more. Lots of guns passed through my hands in those days because I did not have enough money to feed my addiction to guns without lots or trading.
I thought the restrictions on shipping firearms USPS didn't roll in until after '68...?

Why Rail?
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by rjohns94 »

Very kewl. Shame it has left ur possession. Would love to see it. Blessings. And oh, thanks for coming up with the concept.
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Charles
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by Charles »

In 1960, you could not mail firearms. Beginning in 1968 you could not order guns by mail. Big difference. The Gun Control Act of 1968 required that all interstate shipment of firearms must be sent to a FFL holder. In 68, MLK, Bobby Kennedy and George Wallace were all shot. GCA was a response to that. Really bad year.

In 1960 You could not mail guns. The various truck package delivery services did not exist. Railway Express was a package service by rail. That is how guns were shipped in those days.
Last edited by Charles on Sat May 26, 2012 10:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
20cows
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by 20cows »

Visionary!
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Re: Did I Ever Tell You, I Invented the Guide Gun?

Post by tray »

Wow!!! A fellow inventer. :roll:

Did I ever tell you I invented the S&W Mountain Gun? :lol: It was 1976 when I spotted a Model 58 langushing in a pawn shop near the bus station in downtown Corpus Christi, TX. I had a anib model 28 w/ a 6 1/2" barrel aquired in a trade. The price was about the same as I would have asked for the model 28. I convinced the owner to trade me streight across for the model 28 because very few people who would wonder into his shop would have any Idea what a model 58 was. Any and everyone in that day knew what a .357 Highway Patrolman was, so I convinced him he could turn it and get his money much faster without as much fuss. He went for it.

Back then J&G Rifle Ranch was opperating from Turner, Montana and advertising in Shotgun News. They had 4" 44 special barrels for N-frames so I ordered a couple. The idea was to punch out the 41 mag cylinder to 44 mag and install the 44 special barrel, round the butt, and add a set of adjustable sights. The problem was I could find no local gunsmith who would agree to do it.

In January of 1977 I traveled to Washington State to find work. After going to work at the Hanford Neuclear Reservation Near Richland I resumed Looking for a gunsmith for my project. One day while shopping in Spokane I saw a gunshop called Spokanguns. I spoke to the young owner named Ed Christenson who agreed to build the gun. When he was done it looked and felt great. The problem was when shot it would shave jackets so bad I got a piece of jacket embedded in my left cheek under the eye. A few months later I was at a gunshow and this shop had a table and display there drumming up business. The fellow doing the talking was not Ed and since Ed had been a one man operation at the time I met him I was taken aback :? . I told the guy at the gunshow I owned one of their custom guns and was not happy with it. This fellow told me they had never built such a gun. I informed him he was not around when the work was done and ask him who he was. He introduced himself as Vern Ewer and said he was a new partner in the enterprise. Once I convinced him of the validity of my story he took a look at the gun and checked it out. He said he would make it right even if he hadn't been there before. I found him to be honest,a good gunsmith, and a great guy. He ordered a 44 mag cylinder and fitted it to the gun and kept the old one for custom 45's. The gun was a constant companion for many years and was exceptionally accurate. It had a bead blast finish and some sort of teflon finish and looked similar to later stainless guns but had a pinned barrel and recessed cylinder. Later I had Vern build me a 44 special from a model 28 using the other 4" barrel from J&G. So, I foolishly sold the gun at the Washington Gun Collectors show in "Pew-El-Up" while out of work. A short time afterward I saw basically the same gun marketed by Smith & Wesson as the "Mountain Gun".

Vern Ewer moved to the Tri-City area and went to work at Handford himself. I heard he was the armorer for Rockwell but can't conferm that. I do know he became friends with Glen Fryxell because I have read stories Glen wrote mentioning him. It may be more correct to say Ed Christenson and Vern Ewer invented the first "Mountain Gun" since they built the gun. I only came up with the idea and commissioned it. I was the first to carry it in the Blue Mountains of southeastern Washington though. The name is totally someone else's idea because I never called mine that .
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