Anyone watching Hatfields and McCoys?

[GonnePhishin]

Yes, lots of correct period leverguns
Both my wifey and myself thoroughly enjoyed the series. Still can't get over the raw hatred involved. It seems to me that since Anse Hatfield stayed back and held off the Yankees that McCoy should have just let his subsequent desertion go and considered it a wash, Hatfield's life for his own. Afterall, Hatfield is the one that had to live with his desertion. Besides from my reading over the years, it wasn't uncommon for men from each side to sneak away and go home to put in a crop, or whatever and then return to the front.
McCoy would just not let go of Hatifled's desertion back in WV, and spurned Hatfield's offer of friendship. From there things just snowballed, like everyone has commented on. The one really evil guy was "Uncle Jim," he seeded like a real sadistic *** and agitator.
Its too bad they couldn't have just shook hands and let it go, for "vengence is mine sayeth the Lord."

[madman4570]

Heard on the radio today that this series broke all records for real time viewing any any commercial television series ???

[Chas.]

One thing I thought was interesting. Almost to a man, they all wore cross-draw holsters. Didn't they ever watch a Clint Eastwood movie?

[kimwcook]

Wife recorded the whole thing so just need to find the time to watch it.

[44shooter]

Madman,

Were you paying attention when you watched?

Why would Hatfield call McCoy a traitor?

Why would Jim Vance kill all the Hatfield's, him being a member of their clan?

I didn't say anything about handing sons over to be killed. I was referring to things like:
Maybe Anse Hatfield should not allowed Jim to murder returning Yankees.
Maybe the Anse Hatfield should have payed for the hog.
Maybe Randall should have taught his sons not to get drunk and murder people at voting precincts.

These were very powerful men in their families, like a chief of king. The show depicted them both beating their grown sons ferociously, so I believe they had the means to hold their own accountable.

How does burning a house full of children make Uncle Jim da man? He enjoyed violence for its own sake, just like McCoy's hired gun. He started the whole thing.

I don't think either man was a coward. A showdown between them would not have prevented the clans from further fighting.

[madman4570]

Madman,

Were you paying attention when you watched?

Why would Hatfield call McCoy a traitor?

Why would Jim Vance kill all the Hatfield's, him being a member of their clan?

I didn't say anything about handing sons over to be killed. I was referring to things like:
Maybe Anse Hatfield should not allowed Jim to murder returning Yankees.
Maybe the Anse Hatfield should have payed for the hog.
Maybe Randall should have taught his sons not to get drunk and murder people at voting precincts.

These were very powerful men in their families, like a chief of king. The show depicted them both beating their grown sons ferociously, so I believe they had the means to hold their own accountable.

How does burning a house full of children make Uncle Jim da man? He enjoyed violence for its own sake, just like McCoy's hired gun. He started the whole thing.

I don't think either man was a coward. A showdown between them would not have prevented the clans from further fighting.

I paid attention to the movie,but not my typing of last post.(thanks,corrected it)
now, This is just a make believe something what I might do back then/maybe not?-----cause really I am a passive man!

Look, I know Uncle Jim did some bad things----but once the feud started going really bad(uncle Jim wanted to end it)by what ever means required.(they were both killing each other on both sides.When it gets to that----you do what needs doing.

I feel that McCoy was a coward(he hated Hatfield deeply after the prison deal,and was fixated on him pulling the traitor move abandoning his outfit.He should have right then and there(fixed their issue)He didn't.
Uncle Jim could have shot Hatfields wife(he didn't)he didn't shoot the girls(oh ya the one special kid did one) or very young boys as I recall.
He wanted to smoke them out.

I think if Hatfield accepted the blond at first(maybe things might have changed)?? His wife booted her out when she was with child.
I also think if both Hatfield and McCoy publicly gathered both clans/& public and said(as heads)this is what is going down and after it stops and made all those left on both sides swear(it ends)who knows??????????

I can't help it(I feel McCoy was a coward???)just my view(and looks like he thought so too of himself)
I know Hatfield was a coward(he trotted off while his whole outfit died fighting except for McCoy which rotten in prison for awhile.

Far as I am concerned he should have got it legal however need be, then ended Hatfield's world as he knew it and then played it by ear????????

Hey, we all have different opinions-----mine is just one!
All I know,wouldn't have mattered if own kids did take out that brother,after killing them all ===========Game on!
Game on at that point===============to the enth degree!

Course this is just pretend hypothetical cause really I am a passive man!

[madman4570]

Madman,

Were you paying attention when you watched?

Why would Hatfield call McCoy a traitor?

Why would Jim Vance kill all the Hatfield's, him being a member of their clan?

I didn't say anything about handing sons over to be killed. I was referring to things like:
Maybe Anse Hatfield should not allowed Jim to murder returning Yankees.
Maybe the Anse Hatfield should have payed for the hog.
Maybe Randall should have taught his sons not to get drunk and murder people at voting precincts.

These were very powerful men in their families, like a chief of king. The show depicted them both beating their grown sons ferociously, so I believe they had the means to hold their own accountable.

How does burning a house full of children make Uncle Jim da man? He enjoyed violence for its own sake, just like McCoy's hired gun. He started the whole thing.

I don't think either man was a coward. A showdown between them would not have prevented the clans from further fighting.

I paid attention to the movie,but not my typing of last post.(thanks,corrected it)
now, This is just a make believe something what I might do back then/maybe not?-----cause really I am a passive man!

Look, I know Uncle Jim did some bad things----but once the feud started going really bad(uncle Jim wanted to end it)by what ever means required.(they were both killing each other on both sides.When it gets to that----you do what needs doing.

I feel that McCoy was a coward(he hated Hatfield deeply after the prison deal,and was fixated on him pulling the traitor move abandoning his outfit.He should have right then and there(fixed their issue)He didn't.
Uncle Jim could have shot Hatfields wife(he didn't)he didn't shoot the girls(oh ya the one special kid did one) or very young boys as I recall.
He wanted to smoke them out.

I think if Hatfield accepted the blond at first(maybe things might have changed)?? His wife booted her out when she was with child.
I also think if both Hatfield and McCoy publicly gathered both clans/& public and said(as heads)this is what is going down and after it stops and made all those left on both sides swear(it ends)who knows??????????

I can't help it(I feel McCoy was a coward???)just my view(and looks like he thought so too of himself)
I know Hatfield was a coward(he trotted off while his whole outfit died fighting except for McCoy which rotten in prison for awhile.

Far as I am concerned he should have got it legal however need be, then ended Hatfield's world as he knew it and then played it by ear????????

Hey, we all have different opinions-----mine is just one!
All I know,wouldn't have mattered if own kids did take out that brother,after killing them all ===========Game on!
Game on at that point===============to the enth degree!

Course this is just pretend hypothetical cause really I am a passive man!

Guys,
Let me just say---it was too bad it all had to go down that way.
I surely don't condone killing people/youngins/women/etc.
The stuff Jim did was bad/others what they did was bad/
I probably am just running off at the mouth(well fingers)

Just that----I know someone messing with my family----I will go to what needs going to!

Rant off!
Anyhow----I did like the series!

God Bless

[Sixgun]

Hey, I bet this is gonna throw you boys for a loop. And no, I am not racist nor do I work for the NAACP, but.............in 6 hours of watching that show, I never saw one black dude.----------Sixgun

[Charles]

As I under the history, the returning Yankee McCoy was killed by a group of Confederate home guard militia known as the Wildcats. McCoy was getting water when they caught him. He went for a cave. where here was killed. Devil Anse was the leader of the group but home sick. His Uncle Jim Vance is said to have fired the fatal shot.

[2571]

Hey, I bet this is gonna throw you boys for a loop. And no, I am not racist nor do I work for the NAACP, but.............in 6 hours of watching that show, I never saw one black dude.----------Sixgun

+1 Had the same thought.
_________

Too, too much advertising. I thought it was about Geico interspersed with a few comments about history.

[Hobie]

Such incidents happened with regularity in border areas where family members who had actually resided together fought for different governments. People don't realize that bushwacking was a regular feature of all the border areas nor do they realize that the war actually continued with insurgencies in several areas. That isn't unusual either.

[Birdman]

I have lived in Central Illinois all my life. My Mom was born and spent several years in Ky. I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse (probably a little of both) but people who don't know me swear I live in the south. I thought the accents were off the the terminolgy was about right. The purty southern country was infact Rominia but it did look good. I figured it should have been filmed in the Cades Cove area but with the tourists it would have been to busy. I did some research after the first night and the film did follow the events pretty closely. I set the DVD but ended up watching it every night. That was a complete waste of time with the amount of commercials. After the intro and closing every night and the crazy amount of commercial time I figure the actual 6 hour movie could be watched in about three and a half hours. I did like the way it showed the people in general as not a bunch of drunks laying around all day doing nothing. Yes, they did some drinking but it also showed them working when they wasn't shooting and killing each other. I'll keep my recording and watch it again.

[Hobie]

You can see it on line as well.

[Griff]

Guys,
As far as I'm concerned it's all the lawyer's fault.

[GonnePhishin]

Yeah, that ther dadburn lawyer was a real polecat
Especially goin' after them ther youngins to try to marry

[44shooter]

Sixgun, I have never seen a black person in SW WV. Mind you I have never lived there but have visited my former inlaws many times. Seen a few in Charleston and Morgantown.

There were never many slaves in the mountains because they did not have the large farms that needed the labor. Once emanicipated, the mountains still didn't have large farms or factories to employ them so the didn't migrate there.

[Bob Hatfield]

I dont remember reading about Devil Anse Hatfield deserting. I do remember reading about my Great Great Grandfather Jim "Old Slater Hatfield" deserting along with a friend to go see their wives. Captain Anse Hatfield was charged with finding them and bringing them back for execution. He did find them but they were not executed as they convinced Anse that they were coming back to their unit after they saw their wives. The wife of "Old Slater's" friend was near death. Plus "Old Slater was Devil Anse's Uncle which I suppose makes me a distant cousin as "Old Slater Hatfield was brother to Ephraim Hatfield, Anse's father. I really enjoyed the show. I cannot fathom what was going through Anse's mind when they were executing the McCoy boys tied to the "Paw Paw" tree. Did he not care that Randall McCoy would get even by killing his family? I could understand that if the McCoy boys were tried in Pikeville area at the time they would probably be slapped on the hand as punishment and Anse knew that and knew it would be unacceptable. At least he should have taken them to Logan WV and let our courts handle it.

I thought the McCoy boy that did the actual stabbing and shooting of Ellison should have pleaded in the movie to admit doing the deed and ask Devil Anse to spare his brothers. I believe in the movie only one did the stabbing and shooting, but while the others were using their fists but maybe I am wrong.

The fued lasted so long that I suppose Costner had to compress the timeline in order to get it all close in 6 hours.
Seems I read that Johnse and one of those girls he was sweet on went to Oregon for a while. And Nancy McCoy the one that spit in his face in the movie and took up with Phillips had a whole passel of kids. in the movie he gets killed at the end by his deputy. Probably for some kind of movie justice to make the viewers feel better as he was almost as bad as "Uncle Jim Vance" Tom Berenger played that part very good.

What is odd in the behavior at that time I noticed in the movie was that as bad as Uncle Jim Vance was when Nancy came out of the cabin to help her brother Uncle Jim tells her to get back in the cabin and dress decent. Ain't that funny. Worried about decency in clothing and murdering on the other hand?

Then there is the young mentally handicapped fellow that was hanged at the end. Ellison "Cotton Top" Mounts. Ellison Hatfied (the one that was killed by the McCoys at the election) was his father. I guess if you were a bastard as they called them in those days you didnt get to use your fathers last name.

Bob Hatfield

[Hobie]

I dont remember reading about Devil Anse Hatfield deserting. I do remember reading about my Great Great Grandfather Jim "Old Slater Hatfield" deserting along with a friend to go see their wives. Captain Anse Hatfield was charged with finding them and bringing them back for execution. He did find them but they were not executed as they convinced Anse that they were coming back to their unit after they saw their wives. The wife of "Old Slater's" friend was near death. Plus "Old Slater was Devil Anse's Uncle which I suppose makes me a distant cousin as "Old Slater Hatfield was brother to Ephraim Hatfield, Anse's father. I really enjoyed the show. I cannot fathom what was going through Anse's mind when they were executing the McCoy boys tied to the "Paw Paw" tree. Did he not care that Randall McCoy would get even by killing his family? I could understand that if the McCoy boys were tried in Pikeville area at the time they would probably be slapped on the hand as punishment and Anse knew that and knew it would be unacceptable. At least he should have taken them to Logan WV and let our courts handle it.

I thought the McCoy boy that did the actual stabbing and shooting of Ellison should have pleaded in the movie to admit doing the deed and ask Devil Anse to spare his brothers. I believe in the movie only one did the stabbing and shooting, but while the others were using their fists but maybe I am wrong.

The fued lasted so long that I suppose Costner had to compress the timeline in order to get it all close in 6 hours.
Seems I read that Johnse and one of those girls he was sweet on went to Oregon for a while. And Nancy McCoy the one that spit in his face in the movie and took up with Phillips had a whole passel of kids. in the movie he gets killed at the end by his deputy. Probably for some kind of movie justice to make the viewers feel better as he was almost as bad as "Uncle Jim Vance" Tom Berenger played that part very good.

What is odd in the behavior at that time I noticed in the movie was that as bad as Uncle Jim Vance was when Nancy came out of the cabin to help her brother Uncle Jim tells her to get back in the cabin and dress decent. Ain't that funny. Worried about decency in clothing and murdering on the other hand?

Then there is the young mentally handicapped fellow that was hanged at the end. Ellison "Cotton Top" Mounts. Ellison Hatfield (the one that was killed by the McCoys at the election) was his father. I guess if you were a bastard as they called them in those days you didn't get to use your fathers last name.

Bob Hatfield

Good to see you post on this Bob!

Nancy supposedly had two children by Johnson Hatfield and four by Frank Phillips. Johnse supposedly married 4 more times (as noted in the movie).

Franklin (Bad Frank) PHILLIPS (son of William " Billie" PHILLIPS and Mary KING) was born 28 Jul 1861 in Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY., and died 12 Jul 1898 in Phillips Branch, Peter Creek, Pike Co., KY.. He married (1) Matilda PHILLIPS on 12 Jun 1878 in Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY., daughter of John W. PHILLIPS and Edith SMITH. He married (2) Mary Cinderella ROWE on 17 Sep 1883 in Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY., daughter of Charles ROWE and Katherine(Kate)Rowe. He married (3) Nancy McCOY on 05 Sep 1895 in Pike Co. KY., daughter of Asa Harmon McCOY and Martha "Patty" CLINE.

More About Franklin (Bad Frank) PHILLIPS:
Burial: Jul 1898, Phillips Cemetery, Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY..
Fued 1: Bet. 1887 - 1889, Key player in Hatfield/McCoy Fued.
Fued 2: Bet. 1887 - 1888, Captured 9 Hatfields and their supporters..
Fued 3: 1888, Killed Jim Vance, Logan Co. WV..
Fued 4: 1888, Killed William Dempsey of Logan Co., WV..
Fued 5: Sep 1889, 8 members of Hatfield faction sentenced to life..
Fued 6: Feb 1890, Ellison Mounts, hung in Pikeville, Ky..
Guardianship 1: 1868, Grandfather resigned as guardian..
Guardianship 2: 1868, Col. John R. Dils became his guardian..
Law Enforcement: 1887, Special Deputy for State of KY..
Marriages: 1887, Md. twice by this time, 5 children by 2nd wife, 4 by 3rd wife..

More About Franklin (Bad Frank) PHILLIPS and Matilda PHILLIPS:
Marriage: 12 Jun 1878, Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY..

More About Franklin (Bad Frank) PHILLIPS and Mary Cinderella ROWE:
Marriage: 17 Sep 1883, Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY..

More About Franklin (Bad Frank) PHILLIPS and Nancy McCOY:
Marriage: 05 Sep 1895, Pike Co. KY..

Children of Franklin (Bad Frank) PHILLIPS and Mary Cinderella ROWE are:

N.F.N. PHILLIPS, b. Bet. 1880 - 1898, Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY., d. Bet. 1880 - 1898, Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY..
N.F.N. PHILLIPS, b. Bet. 1880 - 1898, Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY., d. Bet. 1880 - 1898, Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY..
Epperson PHILLIPS, b. Oct 1881, Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY., d. date unknown, unk.
Lizzie PHILLIPS, b. Jun 1886, Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY., d. date unknown, unk.
Franklin PHILLIPS, b. Nov 1889, Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY., d. 13 Dec 1926, Greasy Creek, Pike Co. KY..
Pearl PHILLIPS, b. Mar 1895, Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY., d. date unknown, unk.
Roy PHILLIPS, b. Oct 1896, Johns Creek, Pike Co. KY., d. date unknown, unk.


Children of Franklin (Bad Frank) PHILLIPS and Nancy McCOY are:

+Elsie PHILLIPS, b. Dec 1890, Pike Co. KY., d. date unknown, unk.
+Jesse PHILLIPS, b. 19 Feb 1892, Pike Co. KY., d. date unknown, unk.
Flora PHILLIPS, b. Aug 1893, Pike Co. KY., d. date unknown, unk.
Golda PHILLIPS, b. Sep 1897, Pike Co. KY., d. date unknown, unk.

Often a child would take the mother's family name if he/she was born out of wedlock AND the parents never married. Names were much more "fluid" or flexible then. I have seen where one child would simply take the name of the next person their mother married and use it for the rest of their life but the other sibling(s) wouldn't do that. I have seen where the son of a man who abandoned the family for another woman took his mother's family name for the rest of his life. Jim Vance was ALSO a bastard and that, in that day and time, might have contributed to his psychopathic behavior.

[Ji in Hawaii]

I really enjoyed the movie, and had no difficulty understanding their dialog. I wonder if things would have been different if Jim Vance didn't get the resentment rolling with the murder of Randall McCoy's brother. I was surprised that there were so many loyal to the Confederacy from Union loyalist states like West Virginia, and Kentucky. Obviously the war had nothing to do with slavery.

Speaking of Hatfields, I have always lusted after the Hatfield SxS shotguns from the day they first came out.
http://www.inc.com/magazine/19901001/5391.html

[Rusty]

My family is from southern WV as is my wife's family. At least in our part of the state I never heard of anyone that was loyal to the Union. In fact I had a g,g, uncle
that was in the Maryland Confederate Artillery, called the Baltimore Battery.

[Hobie]

West Virginia was formed BECAUSE of the politics of the northwest part of the state (mostly) and the military successes of the Federals in 1861. There was already a division in the state due to the differences in geography which had led to differences in economies AND because the disparity in populations made the western part of the state feel they were under-represented in the Virginia legislature. Even our county in what is now western VA was divided on secession but rallied (mostly) to the lost cause after the secession vote passed (in part due to technical maneuvering in the state house). Secession was a near thing in many states and didn't happen in Kentucky but did in Tennessee (even though there was a strong pro-union sentiment). What people don't know is that prior to this secession was discussed in other states and that Texas even has the option of secession written into the instrument which made that republic a state! So, it isn't unusual or odd that members of the same family from the same area were on opposite sides.

[azmark]

Here's a twist...My wife just looked up Anderson Hatfield's civil war records. He joined the union army in Ky. In Jan 1863, he was captured by rebels and held as a POW for a month. He deserted, and joined the confederate army as an officer. In Aug 1863 1LT Anderson Hatfield is on record as ordering supplies for a confederate unit in Va. He deserted from the confederate army in Apr 1864.

We have only seen one episode, but we like it.

[Griff]

Here's a twist...My wife just looked up Anderson Hatfield's civil war records. He joined the union army in Ky. In Jan 1863, he was captured by rebels and held as a POW for a month. He deserted, and joined the confederate army as an officer. In Aug 1863 1LT Anderson Hatfield is on record as ordering supplies for a confederate unit in Va. He deserted from the confederate army in Apr 1864.

We have only seen one episode, but we like it.

I don't know, and don't trust Wikipedia that much; but:

Hatfield was born in Logan, Virginia (now Logan, West Virginia), the son of Ephraim Hatfield and Nancy Vance. He ran a logging operation, which accrued much wealth for his extended family.

A southern sympathizer, Hatfield formed a Confederate guerrilla fighting unit during the American Civil War that he named "The Logan Wildcats."

[azmark]

We didn't get any life details, just Army records for enlistment and status, such as POW status and AWOL, etc. There were several Hatfields that came up, including Ephraim. There were others, but I'm doing this on my Nook and a typing is a pain. The site she went to is called Fold3.com.

[Sixgun]

Why was it filmed in Romania? I don't like things like that as we have the real terrain right here.

44 shooter---S.W. W. Virginny-------THATS where I'm retiring to. ---if they let me. ---------------Sixgun

[Rusty]

It would be a nice place to retire to, as long as you didn't have to work. Very few cell phones compared to the rest of the world.

[Ji in Hawaii]

It would be a nice place to retire to, as long as you didn't have to work. Very few cell phones compared to the rest of the world.

West Virginia or Romania?

[RIHMFIRE]

Why was it filmed in Romania? I don't like things like that as we have the real terrain right here.

44 shooter---S.W. W. Virginny-------THATS where I'm retiring to. ---if they let me. ---------------Sixgun

Can you say "movie industry unions"......
cost was probable way to high....for airing on the History Channel
would would be surprised how often that happens....

open range i believe was filmed in Canada...for the same reason!

[gak]

Read an interview of Costner and he said it was something like 1/10 the cost shooting there - vs what it would have been for a typical HBO shot here. Don't quote me on that figure, may be way off, but it was a significant percentage.

[Ysabel Kid]

Y2K and I finished it last night (which is why I haven't been here that much in the last few days). We really enjoyed it - and he's now obsessed with the fued!

[marlinman93]

Watched the whole series and enjoyed it very much. Didn't have any trouble understanding the language, even with the heavy drawl of that area.
If the movie is an accurate portrayal of what happened I think the feud was born from Anse's desertion from the CSA. But I really think Randall McCoy was irritated more by the fact that Anse came home and became weathy in the timber/land business after deserting. Seems to me that Randall resented his success after deserting even more than the deserting.
As for the pig business; it seemed that the general feeling was that people let their pigs run loose and that pig ended up on another Hatfield's place. He pretty much told McCoy when confronted that he thought he'd probably eaten some of his pigs that ran on McCoy's place too. So if pigs were precious to survival you'd think they'd have kept them penned up.