357/39 wildcat in lever?

Onty · Post by **Onty** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:42 pm

Canadian nights are cold and long one, but pipe dreams with friends are "hot" and kept coming. How about converting standard 357 Magnum rifle to 357/39 wildcat? Not sure if somebody had this idea before but when I compared dimensions, it looked possible. The idea was to take 357 Magnum lever and open it to bottle neck style wildcat, 1.285 â€œ long brass, formed from 7.62x39 (AK/SKS) case. According to literature, 357 rim is .440â€

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:59 pm

I'm not familiar with that one, but I suspect the .357 B&D (Bain and Davis) wouldn't be hard to do (it's a .44 mag case necked down to .357).

PPpastordon · Post by **PPpastordon** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:04 pm

While the B&D might be a little more powerful that the .357X39, it would be a more expensive and possibly more difficult conversion (IMHO). Either a .44 would need re-barreled to .357 or a .357 would require a lot of changes to feed the .44 case.
I would think the .357X39 might be real interesting. Years ago I read some info on it in an SKS conversion and it sounded pretty interesting as a semi-auto. A lever should be even more interesting (again, IMHO)!
BTW; I like that dream.
Grace and Peace.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:48 pm

PPpastordon,

I don't know, so I'll ask; beyond a bolt and extractor change (and a chamber re-bore), what would be required for the B&D?
Here's a link from Lee Martin on the B&D:
http://www.singleactions.com/BainandDavis.pdf

PPpastordon · Post by **PPpastordon** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:09 am

homefront;
Wow; I am flattered by the question! (I hope?

)
I am NOT a lever expert, however:

To make the B&D conversion, it would seem to me the easy way would be to begin with a .44 instead of a .357. This would be using everything from the original firearm except the barrel - and miss the concerns of getting another cartridge with an increased rim diameter to feed and function smoothly in the action; as might/could/would be necessary when beginning with the .357 action and changing to the .44 case size.
The .357 mag to .357X39 should, by comparison, be a somewhat simple conversion to make - IMHO.

Again, IMHO: The B&D should make a "hotter" cartridge than the .357X39. However, I have questions about it in a lever action. I had a friend who years ago tried heavy bullets in his B&D revolver. However, the 180 grain bullets were hard to keep in place due to the short neck. I would be concerned about bullet set-back in a lever action. This is because of the short neck and consequential reduction in neck tension in the B&D case.
I do not know, and have not known anyone with a B&D lever. This may not be a problem, but it is sure a question in my mind.

Otherwise, the B&D is an excellent cartridge. My "Old School" mind would just like more neck on a lever action case. Maybe begin with the .445 case (shortened to about 1.4") and keep the same body length if going to this kind of a conversion?

Grace and Peace.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:41 am

I'm sure I don't know enough about dimensions and such where the receiver is concerned. I imagined it was a simple bolt (for the correct length and face diameter) and ejector change. Maybe one of our resident smiths will chime in here for us?
I know what you mean about the short neck. It's one of the things Lee Martin has discussed on his board, and says that with a good crimp there's no problem.
Like most guys, the idea of making it "a little better" has always appealed to me, but as I get older, I realize that sometimes it's reinventing the wheel

.

Onty · Post by **Onty** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:27 am

I donâ€™t think that .357 B&D (Bain and Davis) is practical for modification of standard 357 Magnum rifle. Tube magazine and slide face have to be modified or replaced, most likely some other parts too. The advantage of 357/39 that those modifications could be avoided, all that is required is rechambering. Also, I would like to see on 357/39 a neck one calibre long, with shoulder at least 30Â° angle. This should solve neck grip problem. On top of that, since this is bottle neck case, a heavy crimp could be applied.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:40 am

I thought there was someone here with a 357 B&D levergun? Maybe they will see this and chime in.

Blaster · Post by **Blaster** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:08 am

Onty,

Great idea for a wildcat. When I converted the .357 Mag brass length of 1.290" to metric, it calculated out to 33mm and that rang a bell. I looked at the WWII German intermediate round, the 7.92X33 and the case is 1.299" in length...bingo. It is rimless with a base diameter of .470".

The case capacity is 31.72 grains of water. If you trim it back from 1.299" to 1.290" and blow the shoulder out from .444" to .465" and neck it up from 7.92MM (.323") to 8.8MM (.357"), the capacity increases to 34.30 grains of H2O. Since a custom reamer would increase the cost of the project, it would be better to just neck-up the standard 7.92x33 case to .357" and load it as-is.

19.0 grains of H110 produces a velocity of 1900 fps with a Hornady 158 grain XTP at a chamber pressure of 37,926 CUP.
Increase the charge to 20.3 grains and the velocity and pressure jump to 2030 fps and 43,294 CUP. Pressure in PSI is almost identical to the CUP numbers. This is one example where CUP and PSI are at parity.

The Marlin 1894 action will accomodate a loaded round with a maximum length of 1.6" and these loads are at that maximum.

Onty, I just expanded on your great idea. I don't want to start cutting on my new Marlin 1894C, so I may buy an H&R Handi Rifle in .357 Mag and give it a go.

-----------I am editing this post to include a few ballistic numbers-----------

Muzzle velocity with a 158 grain Hornday XTP HP: 1900 fps.
Muzzle energy: 1266 ft.lbs.
50 yards: +1.49"...Velocity: 1690 fps...Energy: 1002 ft.lbs.
100 yards: +1.43"..Velocity: 1503 fps...Energy: 792 ft.lbs.
125 yards: ZERO....Velocity: 1417 fps...Energy: 704 ft.lbs.
150 yards: -2.50"...Velocity: 1337 fps...Energy: 627 ft.lbs.
175 yards: -6.24"...Velocity: 1264 fps...Energy: 561 ft.lbs.
200 yards: -11.30"..Velocity: 1200 fps...Energy: 505 ft.lbs.

The .357 Magnum shot from an 18" barrel produces a muzzle velocity of 1500 fps and a muzzle energy of 790 ft.lbs.

Lloyd Smale · Post by **Lloyd Smale** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:07 am

i bet it would make for cool gun on a mini 14. Kind of a miniture beowolf.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:41 am

Lloyd, I like that idea!

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:47 pm

I think somebody DID have a .357 B&D Marlin but I can't remember who...

That is THE way to get .357 Maximum velocities in the Marlin 1894 platform.

Onty · Post by **Onty** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:00 pm

Blaster, this is also a good idea, however, I would assume that itâ€™s going to be same problem as with .357 B&D; at least, slide and tube magazine have to be modified or replaced. My idea is just to open chamber, no more work to be done. This tabulation is great, it shows quite potential of bit larger round. I would expect that 357/39 will have these number reduced somewhat. As for the bullet, I would personally prefer one of those premium 180 gr, they would be better choice for hogs, my favorite big game hunt.

Lloyd, your idea is great and looks like it was done already; posted by MikeG (http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=44660) â€œI believe that gunwriter Ed Harris did a "Mini Thirty Five" a few years back for one of the Gun Digest or Handloader's Digest magazines. It was done on a Ruger Mini-14.â€

Blaster · Post by **Blaster** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:31 pm

Onty,

After analyzing the case dimensions and ballistics, I agree with you. The 7.62 X 39 case will work the best only needing a chamber reamer. Several years ago I went through this same exercise trying to rechamber the 1894C / .357 mag to .357 Bain & Davis. It would require too many modifications. Like stated above, if you want a B&D, start with a .44 mag and rebarrel it. The magazine tube of the 1894C /.357 might be large enough to accomodate the33 KURZ case with its .470" base diameter. I will check that out.

Here's info on the subject cases with a 180 grain Nosler .357 Mag bullet at 80% load density with LIL'GUN powder:

.357 REM MAG: Case volume = 27.0 grains H2O.
11.1 gr LIL'GUN = 1410 fps / 795 ft.lbs. @ 40568 CUP.

.357 X 39 (trim to 1.290"): Case volume = 29.3 grains H2O.
13.1 gr LIL'GUN = 1560 fps / 973 ft.lbs. @ 40,563 CUP.

.357 X 33 KURZ (trim to 1.290"): Case volume = 32.8 grains H2O.
15.9 gr LIL'GUN = 1676 fps / 1124 ft.lbs. @ 40,021 CUP.

.357 BAIN & DAVIS: Case volume = 35.85 grains H2O.
18.4 gr LIL'GUN = 1774 fps / 1260 ft.lbs. @ 40,173 CUP.

PPpastordon · Post by **PPpastordon** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:16 pm

Blaster;
Great info. Thanks.
Actually, I believe (I would have thought?) better ballistics are available with H-110. However, I do not have proof. Thought you might know as you seem well informed in this area.
Grace and Peace.

Caco · Post by **Caco** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:42 pm

All my 357 Rifles-Marlin, Win, and rossi have long throut's to handle longer cartridges. The marlin and the rossi can be finagled for a little over the !.6 magnum overall length. The rossi is factory enabled to handel the 454 casual, so I,m shure the 357 could so be modified. In the case of the 94 winchester which was originally designed to work with cartridges around 2.5 in, and also having the deep throught, there are some economical straight wall cartridge mods like Tycer did with the 360 Dan wesson. add to that longer seated bullets with the longer tapper nose that seat further out and will still chamber and you are in the 357 max neighborhood with only cartridge guide mods and a little thining of the case on the end of the 360 case. Also you still can shoot the 357 mag and the rifle can be restored to original with stock cartridge guides.
Honestly have not completed the project for performance data, but previously loaded the 358 180 gr speer bullet in the reg mag case and with the added case capacity due to less bullet in the case got a fair boost without too much primer pressure signs. With the extra length of 360 case and past experience with the 180 bullet, am fairly confident to get pretty close to the max with 180 gr pistol loads. Got the cases an trimmer and new guides to mod so I still have stock available, but got into another project before I got it all together-Gotta get back to this this summer.
I have enjoyed the thoughts of a hottter 357 rechambering, but really hate to get over my head and cobble up a good lever. The 360 with Tycers
simple home mods on the win 94 should give a decent boost without morgaging the farm. Wish I could get back to the old posts, but think he was talking 2000 fps neighbor hood with a 180 gr cast pistol bullet out of the rifle. The longer seated rifle bullets would give more case available for powder if they chamber, and look like they will because of the shape.

Hope Tycer or some with more knowledge on this chime in.
Dave

Blaster · Post by **Blaster** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:27 pm

PPpastordon wrote:Blaster;
Great info. Thanks.
Actually, I believe (I would have thought?) better ballistics are available with H-110. However, I do not have proof. Thought you might know as you seem well informed in this area.
Grace and Peace.

.

Lets blow out the shoulder with a taper of .005" from base to shoulder and use H110 powder. That would increase the shoulder diameter on the .357X33 KURZ IMP to .465" with an increase in case capacity from 32.8 to 34.3. That would increase the velocity from 1676 fps @ 40,021 CUP to 1725 fps @ 40,686 CUP. You could push it a little and get 1779 fps @ 43488 CUP. However, I don't think that 54 fps is worth pushing the 1894's action to the max. Changing fron LIL"GUN to H110 doesn't help any.

Blowing out the shoulder of your .357X39 IMP with a minimum case taper of .005" would increase the velocity from 1560 fps @ 40,563 CUP to 1653 fps @ 40,863 CUP.

Going back to square one, the 7.62 X 39 case shortened to 1.290, then necked-up to .357" is the way to go. However, it's a lot of trouble for a gain of about 100 fps.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:04 am

Hobie wrote:I think somebody DID have a .357 B&D Marlin but I can't remember who...

That is THE way to get .357 Maximum velocities in the Marlin 1894 platform.

I agree.

Being a cast bullet fan, I see awfully short necks on all the choices.

Being constrained to 1.59" in the Rossi and Marlin definitely keeps your choices down.

A 336 will handle the 356 Win., as will the Win 94. The Win 94s will handle 1.85" and 360 Dan Wesson brass. At that length, 2000 fps is doable with 180s. Never played with the 158s.

Caco · Post by **Caco** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:58 pm

Tycer glad you came on. Was that 1.85 with the group buy GC cast 180?
My reg 357 case loads with the speer 180 gr 358 rifle bullet are around 1.84 and this gives .070 more case capacity than the rem jkt 180 hp pistol bullet. With the 360 case and the rifle bullets, the total length would be over 2 in. and I think this is doable in the Win due to the bullet tapper on the rifle slug allowing the entrance angel needed. thus gainning still more case capacity over your 360 load.
Dave

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:18 pm

Forget the hypothetical 'case capacities'. Recalculate them with the bullet of choice seated to usable COL. I believe you will find less difference in the usefull capacity than in the max capacity. Not enough to make it worth the trouble.

Of course the thing I hate the most about reloading is trimming cases. Starting with the .44 Mag it might be possible to avoid case shortening all together and one would not need as many forming tools.

Replacement barrels and magazine tubes for the rimmed case should be easier to find and relatively cheaper.

I once considered a .357/.44 Magnum Marlin but decided against the .357 B&D because of the short neck and long shoulder. It would be better to use a longer neck and steeper shoulder.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:36 pm

Caco wrote:Tycer glad you came on. Was that 1.85 with the group buy GC cast 180?
My reg 357 case loads with the speer 180 gr 358 rifle bullet are around 1.84 and this gives .070 more case capacity than the rem jkt 180 hp pistol bullet. With the 360 case and the rifle bullets, the total length would be over 2 in. and I think this is doable in the Win due to the bullet tapper on the rifle slug allowing the entrance angel needed. thus gainning still more case capacity over your 360 load.
Dave

No, it's with a 207 grain PB I designed on MountainMolds.

CPB 180, CPB 187, 207,207,207, 158 Speer GDHP

afish4570 · Post by **afish4570** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:14 pm

Guess I missed all the fun when I bought a 356Win./94 back when nobody knew or appreciated what they are. Shooting a 200 gr. cast RCBS bullet gives you alot of wallop and can be loaded down to. Never chronoed 158 gr.jacket hollow points but you can load them from 357 mag. velocity to unbelieveable,check a reloading manual. Figure mine are 2,000 ft. aprox.and get 2" groups at 100 yds. off rest. Love the cartridge and feel it shouldn't have died. It was supposed to be the 94's heartbeat to keep it alive the next century. Oh.....welljavascript:emoticon(':(')afish4570
Sad

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:55 am

Guess I missed all the fun when I bought a 356Win./94 back when nobody knew or appreciated what they are.

Welcome aboard!
You have a most desirable lever, that most guys here know ALL about, and wish was still in production.
Pics, loads and a hunting report would be gobbled up here!

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:40 pm

welcome, stick around awhile and i'll bet your learn alot about the .356wcf. here. i certainly have. always glad to see the .356 being used.

hcpookie · Post by **hcpookie** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:59 pm

Hobie wrote:I think somebody DID have a .357 B&D Marlin but I can't remember who...

Hello all, I had to sign up to share what I know about B&D rifles.

The .357/44 B&D is my dad's pet round. He had Bain & Davis Sporting Goods in California convert his Marlin 1894 from .44 Magnum to the .357/44. He had this done in June of 1998 (he had to dig up the receipt to confirm this date).

B&D told him that this was the first Marlin they converted. They even marked "1 of 1" on the barrel. Anyway, he got this to match his .357 magnum Ruger Blackhawk he had them convert to .357/44. He actually had them rechamber the cylinder on it for .357/44 so it has both cylinders now.

He snapped these pics for me. He is computer-challenged so I may not be able to get better pictures any time soon

oldgerboy · Post by **oldgerboy** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:10 pm

I read about a conversion of a Ruger Mini 30 to basically that cartridge ... .358x39. They said it was great. The higher pressures that rifle could handle yielded 35 Rem balistics.

I think your conversios is a good idea. If you didn't want to get dies made right away, you could neck size with the carbide .357 die.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:12 pm

I love the .357 B&D (as a concept). Always have. It takes the Pistol Caliber Bottleneck to a proper extreme... (Actually, I'd like to use a .460 S&W and neck it down, but there we are...)

If I had money to burn and time to waste I'd be all over it...

As for using the Russian Case... I'd be really afraid of the very small rim you would have to work with for extraction.

Might work, but still...

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:20 pm

Hobie and Blaster,

can we get a reality check on aisle 13 please?

Here's info on the subject cases with a 180 grain Nosler .357 Mag bullet at 80% load density with LIL'GUN powder:

.357 REM MAG: Case volume = 27.0 grains H2O.
11.1 gr LIL'GUN = 1410 fps / 795 ft.lbs. @ 40568 CUP

What is your LilGun load Hobie? Nothing personal Blaster, I'd just like some comparisons on that load info. Something clanged my gong...

Regards,

Grizz

hcpookie · Post by **hcpookie** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:49 pm

As much as the .357/44 B&D is my dad's pet caliber, the Russian 9x39 is my pet caliber.

I have scans of that Guns & Ammo article that was mentioned at the bottom of the page here:

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/Groza ... 9_info.htm

There are also some .35x39 wildcat conversions people have made from some of the wildcat reloading forums... credit given when I know the developer.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:57 pm

I'm working on a 35 Reminton to 356 Winchester conversion in a 336 RC - the work will be done by Mr. Regan Nonneman. Anyway, I understand the general desire/theme of this thread.

However, the idea of taking a m94 .357 and converting to the .358/39 wildcat seems a little futile to me.

Aren't you basically making a slightly less potent 35 Remington? Albeit in a smaller package. The pressure/backthrust should be about the same as a .357 Mag, so bolt strength shouldn't be factor.... but you basically end-up with a 35 Remington which is available stock.

The reason that I wanted a .356 Win chambered gun is that you can't buy em stock, it's a 25% boost over the existing/available 35 Rem and I had 300+ pieces of .356 win brass, bullets and dies on-hand. I had a Win 94AE in .356 and sold it while unemployed last year....

Not dising the idea - just asking questions.

Of course, these kind of projects do not have to make sense.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:03 pm

Grizz wrote:Hobie and Blaster,

can we get a reality check on aisle 13 please?

Here's info on the subject cases with a 180 grain Nosler .357 Mag bullet at 80% load density with LIL'GUN powder:

.357 REM MAG: Case volume = 27.0 grains H2O.
11.1 gr LIL'GUN = 1410 fps / 795 ft.lbs. @ 40568 CUP
What is your LilGun load Hobie? Nothing personal Blaster, I'd just like some comparisons on that load info. Something clanged my gong...

Regards,

Grizz

Seems more than a little light to me... AFAIK LiLgun works best at 100%+.

My "Junior" loads clock out at 190 (180+lube & GC)/1800fps over 16gr LiLgun...

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:34 am

Caco wrote:Tycer glad you came on. Was that 1.85 with the group buy GC cast 180?

Dave

It does work with that one too.

I stick with the 207 grain @ 1875. I did some penetration tests in water and the heavier, slower bullet penetrated almost double the distance of the 180.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:40 am

Grizz wrote:Hobie and Blaster,

can we get a reality check on aisle 13 please?

Here's info on the subject cases with a 180 grain Nosler .357 Mag bullet at 80% load density with LIL'GUN powder:

.357 REM MAG: Case volume = 27.0 grains H2O.
11.1 gr LIL'GUN = 1410 fps / 795 ft.lbs. @ 40568 CUP
What is your LilGun load Hobie? Nothing personal Blaster, I'd just like some comparisons on that load info. Something clanged my gong...

Regards,

Grizz

I'm afraid I didn't see your post nor do I get the question. I only said that the .357 B&D was a practical .357 Max level conversion for the Marlin 1894 platform.

As to the B&D conversion, the best way is to put a .357 barrel on a .44 Mag gun and rechamber. I'm sure there's some specifics I'm skipping here.

158 gr. bullets over 18 gr L'ilGun in the .357 MAG case or 180 gr. bullets over 15 gr. L'ilGun in the .357 MAG case are doable. 200 gr. bullets over 20.5 gr. of L'ilGun in the .357 MAX is good in my Contender carbine. What is the difference between the MAG and the MAX? The Mag gets a little over 2000 fps with the 158 gr. and the Max gets nearly 2000 fps with the 200 gr. I would imagine that the B&D would be capable of performance similar to the Max.

I don't use the Nosler, I use the Remington SJHP or Hornady XTP. Data came from Hogdgon, the powder manufacturer.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:11 pm

How about a 38-40 necked down to .357 ?

Might hold more powder than the B&D.

Or; Just rebarrel a 94 Marlin to 38-40, this is a great 40 caliber round.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:42 pm

Hobie wrote:
Grizz wrote:Hobie and Blaster,

can we get a reality check on aisle 13 please?

Here's info on the subject cases with a 180 grain Nosler .357 Mag bullet at 80% load density with LIL'GUN powder:

.357 REM MAG: Case volume = 27.0 grains H2O.
11.1 gr LIL'GUN = 1410 fps / 795 ft.lbs. @ 40568 CUP
What is your LilGun load Hobie? Nothing personal Blaster, I'd just like some comparisons on that load info. Something clanged my gong...

Regards,

Grizz
I'm afraid I didn't see your post nor do I get the question. I only said that the .357 B&D was a practical .357 Max level conversion for the Marlin 1894 platform.

As to the B&D conversion, the best way is to put a .357 barrel on a .44 Mag gun and rechamber. I'm sure there's some specifics I'm skipping here.

158 gr. bullets over 18 gr L'ilGun in the .357 MAG case or 180 gr. bullets over 15 gr. L'ilGun in the .357 MAG case are doable. 200 gr. bullets over 20.5 gr. of L'ilGun in the .357 MAX is good in my Contender carbine. What is the difference between the MAG and the MAX? The Mag gets a little over 2000 fps with the 158 gr. and the Max gets nearly 2000 fps with the 200 gr. I would imagine that the B&D would be capable of performance similar to the Max.

I don't use the Nosler, I use the Remington SJHP or Hornady XTP. Data came from Hogdgon, the powder manufacturer.

Hobie, I was thinking the CUP quoted for that amount of LilGun would make your load... something... else. That's my question, if the other data, 11.1 gr LIL'GUN = 1410 fps / 795 ft.lbs. @ 40568 CUP, is correct, what's the pressure on your load. Does the pressure seem to juve to you? For 11.1g?

Just checking 'cause it seems, out of balance to me...

Regards,

Grizz

oldgerboy · Post by **oldgerboy** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:50 pm

hcpookie, that's the article I remember.

Gryphon Black · Post by **Gryphon Black** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 am

Glad I tripped over this thread!

.44mag necked down to .357? Why isn't this bigger than it seems to be? What a great idea! In fact, Why not do it on a .454 casull case trimmed to the right length and necked in? You'd have greater capacity and neck length, unless that gets it out beyond usable OAL for cycling...

Now I'll never get to sleep with this ratcheting around in my head!

Gryphon

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:04 am

Judging from Hodgdon's website the pressures stated by Blaster are waaay high. If you notice the max pressure for 158gr XTP of 18gr is only 25,800CUP and the for the 180gr Nosler is only 34,500CUP

158 GR. HDY XTP
Hodgdon
Lil'Gun
.357"
1.580"

16.0 gr
1504 fps
24,100 CUP

18.0 gr
1577 fps
25,800 CUP

180 GR. NOS PART
Hodgdon
Lil'Gun
.357"
1.575"

13.0 gr
1279 fps
27,500 CUP

15.0 gr
1422 fps
34,500 CUP

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu May 01, 2008 7:55 pm

Thanks meanc

that's what I was thinking but didn't have the data. thanks again for checking it out.

Grizz

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu May 01, 2008 7:56 pm

Grizz wrote:Thanks meanc

that's what I was thinking but didn't have the data. thanks again for checking it out. Probably a typo but there are dangers in misplaced numerals, eh?

Grizz

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu May 01, 2008 7:59 pm

Meanc: Remember, "max" numbers published by any Company are 10% below the SAAMI "Max" of firearms & brass made out of crappy "old" (metallurgically) metal...

I show NO pressure sign from my 180gr/16gr LiLgun loads... out of either my SP101 or Rossi.

se3388 · Post by **se3388** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:36 pm

I know this is an old post but maybe some of the guys are still here. I have a Marlin 94, a Ruger Blackhawk in 357 x 44 Bain & Davis and am currently having a Ruger 77/44 rebarreled in it.

Steve E...........

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:00 pm

I haven't built a rifle yet, but have the parts to do so. It would be a bolt gun, but a lever might be possible. Why not run a 35 Rem reamer in short (39mm) and use 7.62 x 39 brass. It would take some of the taper out of the cartridge and might work with a 357mag boltface.

Things look like it might work. Just cut down 35 Rem dies to load.

se3388 · Post by **se3388** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:21 pm

That sounds like it would work but I picked up a new 94 Marlin 357 mag barrel and sent them to Jim Brockman and had him do the conversion. Basically it was screwing on the new barrel (he had to clock the barrel) and running the reamer in. It is a fun rifle but I am like a kid at Christmas waiting on my Ruger 77/44 bolt gun to come back all converted.

Steve E............

Nicknack · Post by **Nicknack** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:23 am

Bloke in Australia on my hungting forum converted his Ruger 77/44 into a 357/44 Bain & Davis and reckons its the ducks nuts.
http://www.australianhunting.net/index. ... ic=81062.0
I have a spare Green Mountain 38 cal 1 in 20 twist 27'' octagon barrel that is looking good to be a 357/44 Bain & Davis,trouble is i have a 44 Magnum Marlin Cowboy.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:12 am

Being a cast bullet fan, I see awfully short necks on all the choices

that is why I like the idea of reaming out a 30-30 to .357. Plenty of powder room unless you're shooting jacketed rifle bullets.

357/39 wildcat in lever?

357/39 wildcat in lever?

.357 X 33mm KURZ

357/39 Wildcat

hmmm

Re: 357/39 wildcat in lever?

Re: 357/39 wildcat in lever?

Re: 357/39 wildcat in lever?

Re: 357/39 wildcat in lever?

Re: 357/39 wildcat in lever?