Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
I was just reading on another forum about loading heavy hard cast bullets in a .38 case. I don't mean really heavy loads, but rather standard pressure or a little higher, pushing 850 fps or less. Would these be useful loads on medium size game or predators? I just wanted opinions from you guys here.
Mark Dickinson
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 5493
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:23 pm
- Location: Batesville,Arkansas
Re: Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
Wasn't the old British load a .38/200? That is a heavy bullet.
JerryB II Corinthians 3:17, Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
JOSHUA 24:15
JOSHUA 24:15
Re: Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
I don't believe you have to work too hard to push 200-205 to 850 fps from a 5-6" barrel.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Re: Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
Would that slug carry enough momentum to cause significant damage even though it's travelling relatively slowly?
I assume it would be safe to shoot a load like that in any .38 in good condition.
I assume it would be safe to shoot a load like that in any .38 in good condition.
Mark Dickinson
Re: Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
Years ago a 200 grain at 850 was the standard used by a lot of police agencies especially in snub noses.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Re: Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
I have but one factual set of examples for you. My son was trying to get his first deer and he was using a 20" rifle with 180gr FNGC bullets. They came out of the rifle around 1000 fps. We kept the range to 50 yards or less but the first opportunities came right at 50 yards. The first deer was hit broadside through the lungs and it ran. There was no blood and it got dark. I found it in the morning about 250 yards away in a creek. Coyotes had started on it and my son was in school so he did not get to experience the recovery. The second time was a similar circumstance. The deer was hit well and scooted off with a broken front leg swinging. Again, not one drop of blood and it got dark. Once again I found it in the morning, somewhere between 200 and 300 yards away as it was not in a straight line at all. The bullet broke the front shoulder and cut into one lung. It was rounded on the front and weighed 137.6 grs. Well, that was it for me. I told my son "either you shoot 357 Mag and do it accurately or wait until next year when you can". Meanwhile, my friend Jaz was convinced the 38 Spl should work and on a bet, he used it at his deer culling job. He shot one at 40 yds and hit it again at 60 yards as it walked off. This was early morning so he had time to look. It took him 3.5 hours to find the deer as it didnt leave a blood trail. He thought it had just died. He ended up searching on an ATV and just happend to come upon it. One bullet was in the chest but missed the heart and the other was in one lung. So could you kill a deer sized animal (TX deer are 100 pounds or so)? Yes. Will the 38 Spl-Heavy load be reliable, efficient and humane? Not in my experience. I discourage it.
Professional Hunter
http://www.TARSPORTING.com
"Worldwide Hunting Adventures"
Professional Hunters Assoc of South Africa
SCI - Life Member
NRA - Life Member
NAHC - Trophy Life Member
DWWC - Member
http://www.TARSPORTING.com
"Worldwide Hunting Adventures"
Professional Hunters Assoc of South Africa
SCI - Life Member
NRA - Life Member
NAHC - Trophy Life Member
DWWC - Member
- horsesoldier03
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2073
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:32 pm
- Location: Kansas
Re: Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
I agree with 86er. The .38 while a great cartridge is still poor compared to the .357 when hunting deer. IMO, I think the 180 grain is a bit heavy for caliber to be shooting deer. Mass is good, but it cuts into the velocity side of the house too much.
Using a ballistic calculator, an 1894 Marlin .357 will push a 158 grn JSP at approx. 1957 fps. This yields 1343 ft lbs of energy and has a Taylor KO value of 15.
for comparison,
Joe's 180 grain load pushes 1000 fps. On the same calculator, a 180 grain load moving at 1100 fps yields 483 ft lbs and has a Taylor KO value of 10.
IMO, the heavy 180 grn bullets steal too much velocity from the round. I think you would be better off to stick with the 158 grains, even the 30-30 only uses a 150 grn bullet, of course it is moving a a much faster rate.
Using a ballistic calculator, an 1894 Marlin .357 will push a 158 grn JSP at approx. 1957 fps. This yields 1343 ft lbs of energy and has a Taylor KO value of 15.
for comparison,
Joe's 180 grain load pushes 1000 fps. On the same calculator, a 180 grain load moving at 1100 fps yields 483 ft lbs and has a Taylor KO value of 10.
IMO, the heavy 180 grn bullets steal too much velocity from the round. I think you would be better off to stick with the 158 grains, even the 30-30 only uses a 150 grn bullet, of course it is moving a a much faster rate.
“Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.”
Re: Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
Don't worry, I'm not going to run out and start shooting deer with a .38. The question came from a conversation about shooting trapped hogs. It made me think about velocity vs. mass and the factory heavy cast loads for deer hunting in .357 because their velocity is relatively slow. I think it's an interesting subject to say the least.
Mark Dickinson
- Ji in Hawaii
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:05 pm
- Location: Moku Manu, Hawai'i
Re: Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
Point blank into a stationary hogs skull should work fine at least as good as a .22LR which has worked fine for me on hogs.
Wouldn't use it for much more than that.
Wouldn't use it for much more than that.
Illegitimus Non Carborundum
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
- O.S.O.K.
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 5533
- Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:15 pm
- Location: Deep in the Piney Woods of Mississippi
Re: Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
My question is why? Unless that's all that you have... and then, a brain shot would be called for.
The .357 Mag is a whole nuther story, though, I would limit the distance with a hangun - levergun with a good bullet that will hold together is a good round for deer.
The .357 Mag is a whole nuther story, though, I would limit the distance with a hangun - levergun with a good bullet that will hold together is a good round for deer.
NRA Endowment Life
Phi Kappa Sigma, Alpha Phi 83 "Skulls"
OCS, 120th MP Battalion, MSSG
MOLON LABE!
Phi Kappa Sigma, Alpha Phi 83 "Skulls"
OCS, 120th MP Battalion, MSSG
MOLON LABE!
Re: Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
Not necessarily disagreeing with you, Ji. Just adding a caution.Friends Call Me Ji wrote:Point blank into a stationary hogs skull should work fine at least as good as a .22LR which has worked fine for me on hogs.
Wouldn't use it for much more than that.
Shooting a trapped hog in the head works but as with every other application, where you put the bullet is important.
I've shot hogs point blank in a trap with a 9mm and managed to turn the thing into a bloody mess because I planted it somewhere in the snout rather than directly into the brain-pan.
Lesson learned. Hogs don't like being in traps and tend to get 'animated' when humans approach. Still, you've got to be careful where you place your shots, unless you enjoy watching the critters suffer.
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
- Ji in Hawaii
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:05 pm
- Location: Moku Manu, Hawai'i
Re: Heavy bullets in .38 Spl
Amen!FWiedner wrote:Not necessarily disagreeing with you, Ji. Just adding a caution.Friends Call Me Ji wrote:Point blank into a stationary hogs skull should work fine at least as good as a .22LR which has worked fine for me on hogs.
Wouldn't use it for much more than that.
Shooting a trapped hog in the head works but as with every other application, where you put the bullet is important.
Illegitimus Non Carborundum
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31
Akā, ʻo ka poʻe hilinaʻi aku iā Iēhova, e ulu hou nō ko lākou ikaika;
E piʻi ʻēheu aku nō lākou i luna, e like me nā ʻaito;
E holo nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e māloʻeloʻe,
E hele mua nō lākou, ʻaʻole hoʻi e maʻule.
`Isaia 40:31