OT - Guns and booze? Why?

jengel · Post by **jengel** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:54 pm

This has been bugging me for a long time and I wanted to voice my concern and opinion. Since I have left the county and have moved into the fascinating world of private business, I have talked to a lot of people that did not know I am ex-LEO and the conversation most always turns to guns and hunting. Several of them have said how they love to go out with their buddies and shoot prairie dogs and drink beer. A lot of them have said that pheasant hunting is more of a drinking sport than a shooting sport. This really bothers me. I have hunted with a couple of fellow sheriff's deputies that I will never hunt with again due to their extreme lack of muzzle discipline. Now, I feel I need to screen potential fellow hunting buddies to see of they are going to drink when we go out. There were a couple of guys that shoot P dogs that I was really wanting to go shoot with. Oh well, I guess I will just have to either go myself, with my kids or take the one friend that thinks like I do.

It's not that I'm against drinking, I like to have a beer or a Crown and Pepsi every now and then but it's NEVER before or during the shoot. The local trap club has a rule that there cannot be any alcoholic beverages in front of the firing line fence. I asked one of the officers of the club about this rule and he said that some people would not show up for a trap shoot if they could not drink. As long as they kept the drinks behind the fence, it was all OK. We had a Hunters Safety youth shoot out there a few months ago and there were beer bottle caps by the club house where the kids were gathering. In my opinion, there should not be any alcoholic beverages on the entire property and if there are, the offenders should be escorted away. I refuse to be a member of the club and if asked why, I will voice my opinion.

We have enough problems with the perception of our hunting and shooting fraternity without the fear that we are drunk irresponsible idiots. A few bad apples spoil it for the whole bunch.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:56 pm

Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms.

Inoxerably Linked.

And the best name for a Convenience Store I can think of...

Texican · Post by **Texican** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:02 pm

jengel wrote:In my opinion, there should not be any alcoholic beverages on the entire property and if there are, the offenders should be escorted away. I refuse to be a member of the club and if asked why, I will voice my opinion.

We have enough problems with the perception of our hunting and shooting fraternity without the fear that we are drink irresponsible idiots. A few bad apples spoil it for the whole bunch.

Agreed.

wm · Post by wm » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:05 pm

I am still a pariah among some of my fellow shooting club memebers because 10 years ago I lead the effort to ban all alchol from the club grounds.

I said it then and I'll say it now....it was a accident waiting to happen.

I don't go to the bar to shoot and they should not come to the range to drink.

And when hunting no alchol unless ALL firearms are unloaded and stored. That is the rule with the group I hunt with.

I think there more who feel this way than the other.

Wm

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:12 pm

Personally, I don't mix guns and alcohol, because I tend to categorize the activities that I engage in. It's one or the other. Not saying it's just alcohol or guns, but in this case it's an activity where I need all my wits about me to perform, and another where I can relax because what I am doing is not of great import.

Years back it didn't matter much to me who drank and who didn't, as long as they could play safe. As I get older, I see more folks getting set in their way, developing either better or worse habits. The drinkers are getting drunker and the tea-totalers are getting more holy-rolly. I don't much like either brand of a-hole.

I think that people can choose the company that they keep, and that they should, when the opportunity presents itself, mind their own business.

Pick your friends carefully and after much consideration, and go with what suits ya.

spurgon · Post by **spurgon** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:14 pm

I agree. Some degree of disiplin can actually make the day at the range better. Savoring the drink after the fact is even better that way.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:14 pm

Been there and done that. In my younger days, the Atlantic ocean would be gone if it was beer. I did have enough sense not to get buzzed too bad and shoot at the same time. Got to remember, this was during the seventies and eighties when drinking & shooting at the same time was no big deal. I do remember that I cared a lot less about safety while slamming down a few brews. Been 14 years since I drank anything and I am in total agreement with you that no alcohol should be in or near shooters or their clubs until after the guns are put away.---------Sixgun

Paul105 · Post by **Paul105** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:18 pm

Gotta agree with Jengel -- both the alcohol and muzzle discipline comments. There are folks I won't be around when firearms are involved for just those reasons.

Paul

Wes · Post by **Wes** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:41 pm

I had a friend/client some years back when shoeing horses. Every spring I'd go over and shoe his string of horses and he'd show me a new gun just about every time. This guy LOVED his beer and would want to shoot a little when the work was done. I'd bang a few off with him and head home (no beer for me). I went back one year and Terry had a hell of a limp. I asked what had him so gimpy and he pulled up his pant leg to show me his artificial leg. He'd got drunk with a buddy and they decided to shoot at a stray dog in their barnyard. The buddy blew Terry's leg off below the knee with a 454 Casull. Lesson learned the hard way.

jengel · Post by **jengel** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:45 pm

Wes wrote:The buddy blew Terry's leg off below the knee with a 454 Casull. Lesson learned the hard way.

Two quotes come to mind - "being stupid should hurt" and "Here's your sign".

hartman · Post by **hartman** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:20 pm

Wes, to quote my hero John Wayne, "Life's tough, but it's tougher when you're Stupid."

Hartman

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:17 pm

i like to drink as much, if not more than the next guy. but only after the guns are cleaned and put away. alcohol, gasoline and firearms don't mix

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:46 pm

After I retired from the Air Force and moved back to my home in Wyoming, an old high school buddy invited me along on a antelope hunt. I went over to his house about 0430 to pick him up and he already had a beer in his hand!! He went through about 3 6-packs that day. I was amazed and dismayed and never went anywhere near him again until he took the cure about 5 years later. Now we shoot togather quite a bit and sometimes remember the "good old days" and are glad they are gone.

I went to a trap shoot one time, that was enough. Shoot a little, have a drink. Shoot a little, have another drink. Terrifying.

marlin shooter · Post by **marlin shooter** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:26 pm

I am not adverse to having a drink or a beer in the right circumstance, however there should be no alcohol around guns weather hunting or shooting. I am surprised at the number of ranges that allow alcohol on the premises. Some have bars. I also really enjoy riding my motorcycle and snowmobile and stick to the same zero tolerance. When these activities are over knock yourself out. It has worked for me.
Karl

Boomer45 · Post by **Boomer45** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:03 pm

Gentlemen,
It is getting towards 7 P.M here in Michigan. The guns are cleaned and put away for the day. I have no plans to leave the house as it is snowing (again!). I am sitting here enjoying several fingers of 15 year old Glendronach and visiting with my friends on this form Life is good. When I first got into guns I was stationed in Upsate New York, Plattsburg AFB, back in the early 70's. I was fortunate enough to get to hunt with some great gentlemen that my wife worked with. The rule in camp was that alcohol was okay but only after the guns were cleaned and put away for the night. Swearing cost you a quarter per swear word (put your money in the jar Boys). Also, no women in deer camp overnight. Lights out a 9 P.M cause we were up at 4 A.M. to go hunting. If you weren't there to hunt then you were in the wrong camp. Those are great memories and lessons that I still follow even today. I have even left the woods and fields because of unsafe practices by a hunting partner. Firearms Safety is something we have to instill in ourselves and the young folk coming up. Life is short, savor every moment and don't cut it short because of stupidity (lapse in judgement for those that need the politically corrt term). God Speed Gentlemen!!

Boomer.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:01 pm

My buddy talked about his buddies at school going out drinking all night, then going out duck hunting the next day; still buzzed and still drinking. I hope he didn't actually accompany them too much in the woods.

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:09 pm

My friends and I never drink untill we're done playing, Shooting , dirt biking, hunting, what ever it is. If you have to have a buzz to do it , then it must not be that fun.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:14 pm

Nothing to add to what been said, except my agreement. I especially like the "guns, gasoline and alcohol don't mix."

Not that I haven't in the past, and am lucky enough not to have done so with any disasterous results. Quit pressing that luck long ago. Our CAS club rule is no alcohol until the guns are put away. Exactly the way it should be.

As far hunting and alcohol, I enjoy a good beer after a successful hunt. And having hunted in CA where we backpacked 5 miles to our basecamp, the operative word is "A"!

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:22 pm

Our gun club has a streem running through it that devides the shooting area from the camping area. No alcohol allowed on the shootin side of the creek!! PERIOD!

86er · Post by **86er** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:38 am

I don't associate with those that mix alcoholic beverages and firearms. It's not worth the potential risk.

I hunted at a ranch a few years ago where the foreman was constantly slurping on another beer. One early evening he could hardly walk. A very nice trophy was coming towards the camp house and the foreman went to get his gun. He told me this was his pet .222 but he could only find one bullet and to be careful with it. He said he was going to let me shoot the animal because I was his best friend. (I only met him the day before). POW! He shot through the ceiling! Lucky it was his only bullet, and nobody got hurt. The owner promptly fired him after I reported the incident.

Chose your company wisely and don't remain in circumstances that make you uncomfortable. You're a good man Jengel.

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:28 am

Many years ago, I was invited by an acquaintance to come hunt at his legendary hunt club. I got off work at midnight, and drove 5 hours to get there -- only to find most of the day's hunters sitting around the breakfast table at the cabin, drinking beer before heading out! I got back in my truck and went home.

blueroan · Post by **blueroan** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:59 pm

The people who drink "heavily" don't see a problem. It doesn't matter if it's shooting, driving, boating, whatever. Those of us whose lives don't revolve around "a cold one" see it differently.

I smoke 4 to 6 cigars a day (and have worked in a coal fired power plant for 37 years and lived in a steel mill town for 20+ years.) A non-smoker probably sees me in the same light. BUT I don't smoke where it is prohibited or in anyone's home (including my own!) If there is a health hazard, it's only to me.

Potentially deadly tools or firearms or ? and alcohol or drugs just don't work well together. Anything or anyone that can hurt or kill me immediately gets my full attention and prompt corrective measures.

jengel · Post by **jengel** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:01 pm

I'm glad I belong to this forum. Thanks guys.

bj94 · Post by **bj94** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:33 pm

I've been around people that were drunk, and I've been around people that drank but were not drunk. For the record, I drink a little (1 or 2 beers a week normally) but I'm careful to not mix drinking and driving.

When I was in high school I spent a lot of time around the local trap range, plus lots of time bird hunting, and I observed a lot of people drinking and engaged in clay target shooting or hunting. Apparently these people drank slowly and knew their limitations. I don't recall any situations that I became concerned about, but most of the people were good about watching out for each other and would point out if someone was going too far. OTOH I've been around people that were drinking and trying to drive, and that is scary. My conclusion is that a person can get into serious trouble much faster drinking and driving than they can drinking and shooting.

Also on a few occasions I've been around people who were not a normal part of our group and who were not very good with their gun handling and safety procedures. To me, these people are the ones to watch out for, not the ones that might drink a beer sometime while they're out hunting.

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:56 pm

I did drink one beer dove hunting in Tenn once.
It was about 100 degrees out and that beer went through me quicker than you could count 3.

I wont shoot at a club that allows booze on the line. Our deer camp... all guns get locked up before spirits come out.

It helps if you dont hunt and shoot with a bunch of alkys. Run with the company you'd like to keep...thats what mama said.

Jeff

piller · Post by **piller** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:32 pm

I have a shot of whiskey or a glass of wine in the evenings sometimes, but I have a nearly pathological fear of guns and alcohol together from when I worked in a hospital. If seeing what comes in to the E.R. after drinking and messing with guns doesn't scare the hell out of you, then I don't want to be around you.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:34 am

Wes wrote:I had a friend/client some years back when shoeing horses. Every spring I'd go over and shoe his string of horses and he'd show me a new gun just about every time. This guy LOVED his beer and would want to shoot a little when the work was done. I'd bang a few off with him and head home (no beer for me). I went back one year and Terry had a hell of a limp. I asked what had him so gimpy and he pulled up his pant leg to show me his artificial leg. He'd got drunk with a buddy and they decided to shoot at a stray dog in their barnyard. The buddy blew Terry's leg off below the knee with a 454 Casull. Lesson learned the hard way.

Was he still drinking and shooting?

Jengel,

I'll admit to drinking and shooting, but only in VERY controlled circumstances. There are very few people I'd be around with a loaded gun, and we will darn sure put the guns away at the first hint of inebriation. No sense in waiting until motor skills are affected.
Keep in mind, too, that this only takes place on private land, where there's no chance of hitting anyone that isn't trying to sneak up on you with the latest issue of "Watchtower".

Also, these are private get together kinda deals. No kids, no new guy's, etc.. I sometimes do stupid or irresponsible things, but not in front of kids. We don't get plowed. Maybe we'll put the guns away and get a little buzz on after dinner, but not stupid drunk.

And, yes, I know about the drunks. Birdhunters are the worst. They even have the nerve to get drunk and brag about their irresponsibility at the Friends of NRA events. (I was on the Heartland FNRA committee until I got digusted and left)

I guess, in summation, booze and guns can mix, but only a little bit. Never in public or in front of kids, though. Kids already have poor enough role models, and the public already thinks we go hunting on drinking trips, thanks to those darned Budweiser signs.

I guess, since I only drink about 3-4 times a year, if you'r stuck for a hunting buddy, feel free to give me a holler. I'm paranoid about muzzle control, too. And I live in Wichita.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:38 am

Andrew wrote:My buddy talked about his buddies at school going out drinking all night, then going out duck hunting the next day; still buzzed and still drinking. I hope he didn't actually accompany them too much in the woods.

If they were hunting ducks in the woods, they were REALLY messed up!

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:42 pm

I don't drink while reloading, transporting ammo or guns, or while using my guns. And, one of us always is the designated driver if the others are going drink. I do enough stupid human tricks while stone cold sober.

Ram Hammer · Post by **Ram Hammer** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:37 pm

I go back home to Missouri every year to deer hunt. The property I hunt on belongs to a friend I have known since grade school. He keeps a strict watch on his hunting guests and will not hesitate in asking someone mixing booze and guns to find somewhere else to hunt. Drinking is not forbidden. Just don't drink and handle guns under the influence. Unload and put up the guns before breaking our your favorite libation. Just use some common sense!. My friends cousin was invited to leave because he broke the rules. He has not been back for five years. I feel safe in that deer camp.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:27 pm

Travis Morgan wrote:
Andrew wrote:My buddy talked about his buddies at school going out drinking all night, then going out duck hunting the next day; still buzzed and still drinking. I hope he didn't actually accompany them too much in the woods.
If they were hunting ducks in the woods, they were REALLY messed up!

True 'nuff. I use the phrase "in the woods" to describe any kind of hunting; which they liked to blast tree rats as well.

My opinion is that it is a discipline issue. If a person can't go long enough with out a beer to go out and enjoy life, then they have issues.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:50 pm

Travis Morgan wrote:
Andrew wrote:My buddy talked about his buddies at school going out drinking all night, then going out duck hunting the next day; still buzzed and still drinking. I hope he didn't actually accompany them too much in the woods.
If they were hunting ducks in the woods, they were REALLY messed up!

Hunting wood ducks and mallards in flooded timber is some of the most fun hunting I've ever done.

pharmseller · Post by **pharmseller** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:52 am

If I'm lucky I'll drink whisky (Jack, usually) twice a year: deer camp and elk camp. I say lucky because we have a tradition where the bottle comes out only if we get meat on the ground and only after the guns are put up for the night.
We'll have beer with dinner but again, only when the guns are put away.
As far as recreational shooting, zero tolerance. Bad things happen when you mix gunpowder and Who Hit John.

Quinn

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:18 pm

I grew up in a non-drinking household, and never developed a taste for most alcoholic beverages. Other than the occasional one premium margarita with Mexican food, or the one glass of wine with other food, or the very rare sip of something while drinking a toast, I still don't partake of alcohol outside the home, and the two bottles of vodka in the fridge have lasted us several years, with both still being more than half-full. I virtually always carry, which gives me another reason to moderate my intake. Putting my guns away so I can drink seems to me an unwise trade-off, but I don't think I would drink any more than I do now, if there were no guns around. I will confess, when it comes to the "pleasure" of being inebriated, I just don't get it.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:25 am

Alcohol+Gunpowder=DARWIN AWARD!

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:33 am

Have enjoyed reading all the previous posts on this subject. Sounds like everyone's on the same page. I hunted with a "dip S#&t" back in 1989 when I lived in Alaska. I got into a Grizzly on his Moose gut pile, and he took off and left me hanging. I killed the bear (.338 win Mag) and then found him hiding in the tent like a little girl.
Anyway, later that night, I let him know what I thought of his actions. He was drunk, and actually pulled out his 9mm and advised me that I "was terminal." Because of the Grizzly in the area, I always stay sober, and I always sleep with my weapon-LOADED!
Anyway, he never actually pointed the weapon at me, but he was waving it around like some "coward." I kept my cool, took his 9mm away, and told him to hit his sleeping bag or get his A%S kicked. He hit the sack, and the next day, we packed up camp and got out of the bush.
I never hunted with him again. And, I let everybody know that this man was a "Coward." And lucky I didn't break his nose or worse. Pick your hunting companions carefully

Booze and guns are a bad scene and should not be tolerated regardless of the activity.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:36 am

You shoulda tied him to the gut pile.

Gun Runner · Post by **Gun Runner** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:22 am

Back in the middle 60's was at the local range. Had a long line of shooters lined across the trap range and we were shooting as 2 man teams. Ifin the first guy missed the second guy could take a shot. Of all the people I had to draw was old"Jake", he dint know what a sober breath was. After the shooting started here comes a bottle of burbon down the line. Told old Jake he needed to get a new partner. Gatheredd up wife and 2 boys who were back in the picnic area and said were leaving. Got to the car and some drunk trying to get into his Jeep fell in and blew the passenger door off his jeep.(soft top and doors). Never went back till late in the 80's (had other places to shoot) was sighting a new scope and all of a sudden I have a blur in the scope. Some fat gal decided she wanted to go down range and check her target and stepped ahead of me to push the buzzer. (buzzer was on a pole a little forward of me and to the left) Was so mad I coundent even talk. Loaded up my stuff and went looking for the range master. He's sitting in the club house half toasted, jerked him off the bar stool and drug him to the shooting area. Couple guys tryed to stop me (locl good ole boys) and my ex-stept dad had been out there doing some building for them (he was a club member) and he bailed into the 2 guys. Got the range master to the shooting tables and explained that I nearly blew the gals *** off. Wrote a letter to the NRA as the club was affiliated with them someway. All He77 broke loose at the club. I was asked to not return also. When I was 12, my kid brother and I used to run the single trap they had on the weekends. Seems over the years a lot of "High Rollers" had brought a lot of money into the club and they made the rules, not the club. Several mo's. latter they were having a fancy meeting and I showed up and gave them a piece of whats left of my mind. Shure ruined a good dinner and meeting for them. Made it clear to the fancy city boys I had been a member there when they were still wearing diapers.
Havant been back and dont intent to as have friends I shoot with and we have a good time. Oh yea one of the guys in the group is a multi millioner but you coundent pick him out of the group.
Sorry about the long ran.

Gun Runner

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:44 am

Well, at least you aren't still upset about it. I don't think I'd be too worried about being told I wasn't welcome back there. From what you say, it'd be about like getting kicked out of a mexican jail.

Texican · Post by **Texican** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:39 pm

Travis Morgan wrote: I'll admit to drinking and shooting, but only in VERY controlled circumstances. There are very few people I'd be around with a loaded gun, and we will darn sure put the guns away at the first hint of inebriation. No sense in waiting until motor skills are affected.

Some might be of the opinion that maybe that's too late; or could be someday.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:56 pm

Texican wrote:
Travis Morgan wrote: I'll admit to drinking and shooting, but only in VERY controlled circumstances. There are very few people I'd be around with a loaded gun, and we will darn sure put the guns away at the first hint of inebriation. No sense in waiting until motor skills are affected.
Some might be of the opinion that maybe that's too late; or could be someday.

Well, those people are not in the circle of folks I have around when we drink and shoot.

cjm135 · Post by **cjm135** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:17 pm

That reminds me of the bowling league. Keep the drinks behind the lanes. Someone always said "Hey fellows watch this!" Never any good came of it and that was just bowling.

bobbyjack · Post by **bobbyjack** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:22 am

I lived on 800 acres and you could see Wellstons City lights about five miles away!

I would drink about a twelve pack then set the bottles on the burn barrell,and then use my High Standard double nine revolver to shoot them off!

I think thats cool because I never edangered other people!

Bob

OT - Guns and booze? Why?

OT - Guns and booze? Why?

Re: OT - Guns and booze? Why?

I LIKE AN OCCASIONAL DRINK OR CIGAR

I've been trying to think about this with an open mind.

confession