Semiauto trail gun

[Blaine]

Choosing a 9mm over .45acp, thinking that the 9mm is better in some respect other than size, or cost, defies logic, IMO.

[oregon73]

I guess I'll weigh in for the Colt Delta Elite 10mm. Carry it in a quality shoulder holster and you should be good to go. I have one from a ways back and it is a darn great gun. Solid, reliable, accurate. Powerful, too.

Rob

[azmark]

I wanted something smaller and lighter. I thought it would be more convenient.

I just finished test firing my buddy's Glock 19. I was having trouble with positioning my left hand for a good grip. I shot okay, but I may have to go with a full size grip just so it feels right (?). Has anyone else had this problem? My hands aren't considered large so It's not that.

I guess some of you were right and I should get the .45 Blackhawk I've always wanted anyway and wear a shoulder holster. Any .45 ACP with real sights would work also. The GI sights on my 1911 are useless to me.

The GP is great, but the long barrel makes it really slow on target.

Hobie: I can't get the URL posting to work right now, so if you want to see the location of the trails, I'd have to send you the file. The trails are in the southeastern Huachuca mountains.

[ceb]

Well, if i'm understanding the OP correctly, the concern for two legged varmints is greater than the 4 legged variety. If thats the case, I'll choose .45 over 9mm in a belt gun everytime. If the weight of a full size 1911 is that much of a problem, I'd consider a 4-4 1/4 inch gun with Alum frame. A bit lighter weight, still with decent sight radius, and in at least my perception, less felt recoil due to a lighter slide and being heavier sprung. My Kimber CDP is reliable, easy to carry and will shoot into 2" @ 25yds if I'm having a good day. Remember too, that many folks feel the 230gr FMJ is OVERpenetrive, so I think in the extremly unlikely event of having to defend against a wild or feral animal the .45 would work just fine.

Course, many times a trail gun is about putting meat in the pot or just havin fun plinking, hard to beat a good .22 for that.

[Paladin]

I normally carry a revolver just for the shot load up front for out west trails unless there is more of a 2 legged problem. Then a Glock 23 (normally .40 S&W) but with a KKM .357 Sig barrel in it with 124 Gr Gold Dots. Extremely accurate and about the same as a .357 Mag revolver. By changing the barrel and mags you can shoot 9mm or change the slide with a .22 kit and shoot 22 with target accuracy from an advantage arms kit. Won't even rust when you swim with it. Disregard the Sig 229 .40 barrel in the photo.

[COSteve]

The 10mm has better numbers, but, the .45acp has history, outstanding performance, is ubiquitous, and vastly cheaper to plink/practice with.If I had any doubt about 230fmj, I would get some Buffalo Bore, 255gr, flat tip, hardcast +P. There are also some 230gr fmj flat tips out there that penetrate better than most. Honestly, I think it's the 30-06 vs. 300 Win Mag argument again. Another idea, if a SA is more one's style, could be a Blackhawk convertable; Plink/practice with .45acp, and carry some 300gr Super Thumpers in the woods. But, now we're back to bigger pieces, including yours. The OP wanted a compact piece.

The 45acp's history on humans is excellent, however, it's performance on thicker skinned animals it poor. For a woods gun where there is a possibility of use against a dangerous animal, the 45acp's, relatively low muzzle energy, even using premium +P ammo, is a poor choice. The 10mm's nearly double muzzle energy using high end ammo coupled with the higher capacity in semi-auto platforms gives a clear edge over the 45acp. Both calibers may be expensive to buy commercial ammo for but when reloaded, the 10mm is actually cheaper because of the bullet weight/cost differences. I hand load my hottest 10mm custom 165grn loads for under 15 cents per round.

As to the revolver/SA vs polymer semi-auto discussion, the semi-auto has a clear advantage in weight, capacity, and recoil management. As I said, my custom 6" G20L (sans magwell) actually weighs less with 18rds of 180grn ammo aboard than a 6" 357mag S&W 686 with only 6 rds of 158grn ammo. All revolver/SA platforms share a grip shape to varying degrees shaped like an inverted cone plus they all have a relatively high bore axis. These result in significantly higher felt recoil and muzzle rise over that found in the semi-auto. Further, the polymer frame flexes which spreads out the recoil impulse giving the shooter the impression of a lighter kick.

As to the OP's desire for a compact platform, Glock's G29 in 10mm is much more compact than my G20L yet still carries more ammo than a revolver, is lighter, transmits significantly less felt recoil than either a 357mag or 44mag revolver, and is very reliable.

[Old Ironsights]

But it's really hard to get a good/functioning shotload for a semi-auto to keep on top of the stack...

I hate rattlesnakes...

[Malamute]

The Remington 45 auto, CCI 45 auto, and CCI 9mm shot loads have functioned fine in the guns I've used them in.


I think larger animals aren't a big issue where our OP is. His 45 auto would work fine. It sounds like he needs to get decent sights put on it though. That's a fairly simple and relatively inexpensive change. A new gun is always fun, but I don't know if it's going to change his situation all that much. I'm not a huge 1911 fan (or any autos), but it would do whatever he needs to do in his location, especialy with the heavier flat point bullets. Round nose bullets are pretty pathetic on game of any sort.

[madman4570]

As to the OP's desire for a compact platform, Glock's G29 in 10mm is much more compact than my G20L yet still carries more ammo than a revolver, is lighter, transmits significantly less felt recoil than either a 357mag or 44mag revolver, and is very reliable.

Might be perfect---small and Light/POWERFUL/11rds/reliable--------yep, though just a tad thicker than G36(4 more rds)if ever needed.

[Old Ironsights]

The Remington 45 auto, CCI 45 auto, and CCI 9mm shot loads have functioned fine in the guns I've used them in. ...

But since those really aren't the best Critter Medicine, does anyone make a 10mm shot load?

[1894c]

my woods guns over the last 8 years have been either a Glock 27 or 23 in .40S&W and I also will carry my newly acquired Ruger Bearcat (.22cal). I carry Glocks because that's what I use when I hang with the LE Agency that I'm associated with.

is the .40-Short&Weak the best, probably not, is it snappy, not as snappy as my SP-101 with full-house .357Mags. but i do know this, my Glocks run, they run wet, muddy, dirty, dry, or frozen. Glocks are easy to field strip and clean, reliable, parts are cheap, and @ $395.00 LE pricing, they're cheap. and face it Glocks are ugly, so if you bang it up, no loss, just looks used.

I carry 180gr. bullets for the woods, but have considered a Lone-Wolf replacement barrel so i can shoot lead, i hear that someone makes a nice lead 200gr.

On final thought, the .40S&W is a throw-back to the 38/40, same bullet weight and speed, apparently many Texas Rangers and ancient Law-Dogs liked that caliber too, so i have always felt like i was in good company... BUY THE GLOCK...just my honest, cranky, back-east opinion... :)

[AJMD429]

...and face it Glocks are ugly, so if you bang it up, no loss, just looks used.

That may be one of the most practical answers yet...

[azmark]

I just got the reply from Springfield saying I qualify for LE pricing, and I qualify for Glock also. My thoughts have gone to a decision between the G22 and the Springfield XD Tactical in .40. Same price assuming I upgrade the Glock sights to steel.

So, XD or Glock?

[Blaine]

I just got the reply from Springfield saying I qualify for LE pricing, and I qualify for Glock also. My thoughts have gone to a decision between the G22 and the Springfield XD Tactical in .40. Same price assuming I upgrade the Glock sights to steel.

So, XD or Glock?

Safety, or not

[shooter]

I would choose the XD. I like the XDM even better. I have said before that I hate the way Glocks feel in my hand. The 4th generation Glocks are a huge improvement, IMO, but I really like way the XD, or the XDM in particular, feels. Are Glocks well made, reliable guns that go bang every time? Absolutely. Would I trust my life to one? Absolutely. But given the choice I would choose the Springfield for the comfort factor, plus the grip safety. I have never liked the trigger pull on a Glock either. As far as I know, the Springfields don't have any reliability issues, which would be the only reason I might think about a Glock over the Springfield. That's just my opinion and personal preference. I don't think you can go wrong with either choice as far as performance.

[olyinaz]

The XD Tactical feels great in the hand, I had one - just sold it, but the capacity is less than the XDm and sales of the original XD in .40 and 9mm have fallen flat as a result. Look at the XDm.

In .45 the XD and XDm have similar (high) capacity.

Did you check to see if Smith offers you LEO pricing? I suspect that they do.

Oly

[Paladin]

Which ever one feels better in your hand.

[Sarge]

Where I will be I'm unlikely to need a larger caliber. While black bears exist here, you donT hear about sightings. People are, however, spotting more mountain lions this year. I thought about a .40, but the recoil is very 'snappy' in lighter guns. I haven't shot .40 in a Ruger SR...maybe the low bore axis reduces muzzle flip. I dunno.

Heavy guns like my 1911 will flat pull my pants down, hence the search for a lighter weapon. Buffalo Bore makes some pretty serious 9mm loads.

I'm selling the GP 100 to finance the new gun.

The 40 S&W offers a lot of thump on the upper end of its spectrum and there it overlaps the .357 Mag in a lot of loadings.

http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/2009 ... -post.html

I like the G23 real well and the SR40C is a nice little pistol, too.

[1894c]

Where I will be I'm unlikely to need a larger caliber. While black bears exist here, you donT hear about sightings. People are, however, spotting more mountain lions this year. I thought about a .40, but the recoil is very 'snappy' in lighter guns. I haven't shot .40 in a Ruger SR...maybe the low bore axis reduces muzzle flip. I dunno.

Heavy guns like my 1911 will flat pull my pants down, hence the search for a lighter weapon. Buffalo Bore makes some pretty serious 9mm loads.

I'm selling the GP 100 to finance the new gun.

The 40 S&W offers a lot of thump on the upper end of its spectrum and there it overlaps the .357 Mag in a lot of loadings.

http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/2009 ... -post.html

I like the G23 real well and the SR40C is a nice little pistol, too.

SARGE...love your blog, great article on the .40S&W. i had and sold a 4" Ruger GP-100 like the OP and settled in on the .40S&W (Glock 23/27) as my woods gun. no offense to the Springfield XD, but haven't seen one in an LEO's holster, i hear their good, but in the end the Glock with it's 33 parts is LEO proven and has my vote...but whatever platform the OP chooses, the .40S&W is a better choice than most would think... :)

[azmark]

Smith has a $50 mail-in rebate on M&P pistols. I seem to recall that they don't have individual LE and Military discounts, but now I'll have to go back and double-check.

The $50 Is their military discount. Just checked again.

The XD Tactical feels great in the hand, I had one - just sold it, but the capacity is less than the XDm and sales of the original XD in .40 and 9mm have fallen flat as a result. Look at the XDm.

In .45 the XD and XDm have similar (high) capacity.

Did you check to see if Smith offers you LEO pricing? I suspect that they do.

Oly

[1894c]

Smith has a $50 mail-in rebate on M&P pistols. I seem to recall that they don't have individual LE and Military discounts, but now I'll have to go back and double-check.

The $50 Is their military discount. Just checked again.

The XD Tactical feels great in the hand, I had one - just sold it, but the capacity is less than the XDm and sales of the original XD in .40 and 9mm have fallen flat as a result. Look at the XDm.

In .45 the XD and XDm have similar (high) capacity.

Did you check to see if Smith offers you LEO pricing? I suspect that they do.

Oly

the S&W M&P is also a great choice, you can also get it with a safety (ala 1911)...seen some LE Agencies using them, also heard that the US Military has acquired some too...if I wasn't so invested in the Glock I would go with the M&P... :)

[Sarge]

SARGE...love your blog, great article on the .40S&W. i had and sold a 4" Ruger GP-100 like the OP and settled in on the .40S&W (Glock 23/27) as my woods gun. no offense to the Springfield XD, but haven't seen one in an LEO's holster, i hear their good, but in the end the Glock with it's 33 parts is LEO proven and has my vote...but whatever platform the OP chooses, the .40S&W is a better choice than most would think...

Thank you. I fiddled with the XD's 2003-2005 and I found them to be about half as mechanically accurate as a Glock, the latter routinely grouping 4" or under at 50 yards for five shots, from a rest. In all fairness, folks are reporting excellent accuracy with the 45 caliber XD's as well as the XDM. My problem is that everybody seems to have a different definition of 'excellent' and until I evaluate the newer XD's, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure not gonna buy another one to evaluate, either.