Road right-a-way ?

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:29 am

My property line goes to the south edge of a township road.
There are property owner on the south side of the road and all the properties where recently surveyed.
One owner was using my land and actually took it to court without my knowledge and tried to claim it as his but lost the case, he has moved away now and the new owner is not a problem.
The guy next to him though is mowing the grass on my side of the road as we just found out today.
I have private property signs up on a tree that is actualy on road right away.
There is a fence that`s on the road right away line.
My question is can he claim road right away by using it?
Irritates the heck out of me, i don`t go on his side of the road and mess around.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:38 am

Check your property description, and I imagine that the prop. line is centerline of road, and and a given number of feet right of way. If it is actually the physical edge of road, then it's still yours, and you have to force the non-use issue, or there might actually be future claims. Your state/local laws might be different than the ones I studied (I did land survey for awhile in the 90's)

Here's a link for Minnesota Adverse Possession Law. This will tell you more than my recollection of Washington Law of 20 years ago.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/minnesota- ... -laws.html

Chas. · Post by **Chas.** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:40 am

"My question is can he claim road right away by using it?"

Maybe. There's a concept in law called "adverse possession" and it varies from state to state. You can read its definition here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession .

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:44 am

My property line goes to the south edge of the road which is his side of the road.
If he is mowing it just so it looks nice no problem but if he is doing it to make a claim that`s a issue.
Should i call the cops now and ask him what his intent is or talk to a lawer.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:50 am

There's also a term called "prescriptive easement." If someone has been using it or has put something on it long enough, without protest, they can be granted an easement.

Spend the $250 and meet, with a real estate attorney, if you feel protecting your property is worth the cost of an hour or two of his time.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:51 am

You will have to check your state laws to see how they work. States have differening laws regarding use of others private land, and right of ways. Deeded right-of-ways to another piece of private land can't be denied access, or deeded access right-of-ways for public use in subdivisions can't be closed or controlled. Some places, if someone uses a piece of land for a certain period of time without challenge, they can claim use of it, not ownership, but they can't be kept from using it. Posting it, or giving legal notice of your ownership (I think even if you allow them to still use it) stops their chance to make claim of use I believe, but again, check local laws.

I live in a "subdivision", and the roads are private, for access for residents and visitors, but I pay tax on the one in front of my place and cant keep anyone off of it. A bit irritating when a couple local kids absolutely RIP up and down the roads on motorcycles or their 4x trucks. Their parents couldn't care less, fortunately, they don't do it very often. Most neighbors are not at all happy about it either, but, there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Looks like several were writing as I was slowly pecking away,....It isnt really a cop issue, more of a civil issue. A lawyer, or free legal counsel may be able to answer that question.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:59 am

Thanks guys, these property owners accross the road are city people that own a postage stamp piece of land on the lake and think they can use everyone elses land.
I will go talk to a attorney tomorrow again, thought i had this all taken care of already and they all just had there properties surveyed which clearly states they only own land on there side of the road.
About ten years ago we had a attorney send them all letters stating they do not own land on my side of the road.
Never ends does it?

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:45 pm

You have my sympathies, Pitchy.

I live off of a "right-of-way". A neighbor actually
owns the land, and my deed states that I have
access over his land - a "right-of-way" as it's
called in real estate. That means I can go over
or on ANY part of the 50'-wide strip of land
ANY time I want to access my property. it gets
tough when other landowners think that they
"own" part of that 50' strip. "Get off my lawn!"
"Ain't your lawn! Look at the monuments and
look at your deed!" If I ever buy another house,
it won't have ANYTHING to do with a right-of-way.

Up here in Maine, to gain an easement by use, one has
to use the other's land for something like 15 consecutive
years without any protest. Of course, your jurisdiction
will have different laws.

From your post I guess you have to determine:

1. Who owns the road? You or the Township?
2. If the road is on your land, to whom is a
right of access - a "right-of-way" over the road granted?

If they are mowing in the "right-of-way", then it seems
that's the way it is. If they are mowing over the boundary
of what is stated as the "right-of-way", then you might have
an issue.

People can be just unbelievably disrespectful sometimes.

I mean how hard is it to ask, "Mr. Pitchy, I know it's your side
of the road, but do you mind if I cut the weeds next to the ditch
every week to make it look nice?"

Good Luck!!

-Stretch

Batman1939 · Post by **Batman1939** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:13 pm

Pitchy wrote:My property line goes to the south edge of the road which is his side of the road.
If he is mowing it just so it looks nice no problem but if he is doing it to make a claim that`s a issue.
Should i call the cops now and ask him what his intent is or talk to a lawer.

Pitchy,

You might save yourself a lot of grief (and maybe some lawyer's fees) by just talking with the neighbor about the issue. No need to assume he is just trying to take possession by mowing along the road; he may be doing it for appearance's sake or to cut down on possible fire hazards.

Sometimes the direct approach is not bad. At least you will know the neighbor's intent for sure.

Best of luck.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:32 pm

Batman1939 wrote:
Pitchy wrote:My property line goes to the south edge of the road which is his side of the road.
If he is mowing it just so it looks nice no problem but if he is doing it to make a claim that`s a issue.
Should i call the cops now and ask him what his intent is or talk to a lawer.

Pitchy,

You might save yourself a lot of grief (and maybe some lawyer's fees) by just talking with the neighbor about the issue. No need to assume he is just trying to take possession by mowing along the road; he may be doing it for appearance's sake or to cut down on possible fire hazards.

Sometimes the direct approach is not bad. At least you will know the neighbor's intent for sure.

Best of luck.

I understand what your saying but the township just mowed the ditch and he mowed the exact width of his property over where it was just mowed.
That and he is buddies with the idiot that tried to steal my land next to him.
That guy was hunting on my property, killing deer and cutting the backstraps out and leaving the rest of the deer lay.
He was tearing down my no hunting and tresspass signs because he thought he owned land on my side of the road.
So this guy knows it`s my land and he is either going to try adverse possession or he`s mowing it to make it look nice.
The problem is unless you get it in writing that he is only mowing it for looks he can and probably would try and claim it at a latter date.
Another bad day in the life of Pitchy, son just came over and started a fight and ruined the wifes BD.
It never ends, i`m going to put this place on the market tomorrow, break ties with family and get the heck out of here.
Tired of it and it`s ruining my health if not worse.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:14 pm

Pitchy,
First thing is positive verification of your property.(This is done by legal survey,period)Sure you can look at your property tax map and that gives you a general idea where your lines are.(and,when property is surveyed and there is a difference between what that is on that Tax map and what it truly is via a proper legal survey,that could work both ways in a recoup/owe for you.

What I mean is your Tax map says you own 25 acres(you have the legal survey done,you own 20 acres)you have been paying taxes on 5 acres(you don't own)you have the chance to recoup this from your CURRENT land owner truly owning the other 5 acres(just for the amount of time HE owned it)

Now, the adverse possession thing is getting harder to have passed in courts(but it still can happen)
Ways around it,like the first one (though I don't recommend that one)

1)--------Your land is not posted/or noted by any signs saying (keep out)----with that you take risks.
Buy, NOT having your land restricted from occupation(adverse====meaning against your will)cannot take place.
Check your laws in your State and see.I believe EVEN if this is done for ONE DAY A YEAR,posted signs come down etc.(with a posting of this in an area/state newspaper ONCE A YEAR this starts the clock all over and breaks the cycle of the REQUIRED AMOUNT OF TIME ONE MUST ADVERSE POSSESSION YOUR LAND!(say in your state it's 7 years?????????

After that ONE DAY(things go back to Pitchy's rule)

Now,be very cautious about neighbors saying here is my line/mine was surveyed)
Because stakes can be moved/and by just looking at THEIR survey it is almost impossible to tell exactly whats what.

Have your land surveyed.(Camcorder this survey being done,BY YOU camcordering him surveying it)Take written note of coordinates/landmarks and also log this with date/time)on a hard cover logbook)also backup camcorder tapes etc.
Paint/blazed line when done with OIL BASED HIGH QUALITY PAINT(NOT SPRAY PAINT)
Bury certain glass items/certain distances deep logged from line trees.Special glass items buried certain depth/distance from line trees cannot be metal detected.(say same type red goonies)three in each certain documented area.

Once your land is surveyed/line painted/all info aquired(POST THE SH## OUT OF IT)
KEEP PEOPLE OFF IT
DO A (at a minimum)a yearly complete walk through of property and camcorder it.(log it date/time/signature)of verification that no possession was evident.(say,example no trees cut/no log trails put in other than yours etc.)Would rather see say in remote section every 3 months though.

IF you find any evidence of someone attempting occupation(have them arrested for Criminal Trespass at the minimum) if caught,if not caught fill out a written complaint/statement(with a signed copy from police to you)l
If they say cut several trees etc.(it goes to a Felony)

Bottom line---Post your land/mark it with hidden ways to verify if say they cut all your line tress down(or some of them)say take a hand held GPS(Garmin e-trax etc)$99 and mark line trees/record it if also in doubt.

You will have no problem-------
Where people get into trouble is say they own recreational land away from where they live/they post it/they don't verify (and take action)of saying (to even say the local police)for record----someone has been trespassing on our property/say then the trespassers take timber for so many years---then they TRY---to go the Adverse Possession route.(it is getting harder though in many states)

The fence in the road deal????-------------If your survey shows YOU OWN the land at least to the fence(AND the township/or state if state owned are saying whoever has public access-----------You have Legal case for that road to be changed.
Meaning if someone other than you tries to run your side(they are in trespass)only issue you might have to (from your line widen YOUR road enough to travel it(say with a car etc.)

Pitchy,I am no Land Lawyer (take this only has my NON PROFESSIONAL OPINION and seek quality pro advice(in your state)

Keep people off/know your lines/document it at least annually/and Post it to local/state required rules.
You will not only protect you/land but minimize legal injury suit if someone attempts such.
JMHO

Good Luck/God Bless

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:38 pm

ps------to above post of mine

If you are satisfied of townships suvery(of yours/neighbors)meaning you believe that surveyor was accurate(I have seen otherwise)
to what your deed calls out(especially if deed calls true points)meaning actual true feet and inches(or rods etc.)and not the MORE or LESS deal if that is unfortuneatley the way your deed calls(sometimes fortunate though)??

Then------Keep that guy off your land(mow it yourself or don't mow it)control your own.

Here is the deal-------Once your start letting people on you----you loss control
I mean----you let someone (say two people)sure you can hunt----How do you control when you hear/see a human form out in your woods its them??????? Other than going each and every time finding them???????/

If you want to let me and Blaine hunt(with you)on Nov 25(thats fine)you make us sign a release form(for that day)and we hunt.
Then----Bye!

When YOU KNOW-----it's only you or own immediate family----you got it covered.
People tend to abuse things and if you let one(it becomes 4)if you say a week it becomes whenever until caught.

and the Adverse Possession has to be something visibally evident-------------that you did not do---------
Put in a fence/remove a fence/plant grove a pine trees/cut a stand of oaks/grow a garden/put in a logroad etc.
Not just someone saying (we hike on it once a month)
Knowing your land and what you have----it is easy to verify and take action if needed.
Kinda like doing your chores

(keep up on it)

Take control and be hardcore dude!

JMHO

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:06 pm

I would be pleased as punch if some other goofball was mowing my easement area

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:30 pm

MadMan, there is no doubt about the surveyed line and he knows where it is.
We are talking about road right away on my side of the road. Road right away is 33 feet from the center of the road.
Legaly he can park on my side of the road on RR, what i`m not sure about is if he can claim any Road right away as his land by using it.
I`ve got both yes and no opinions in the past.
So off too the court house and lawyer tomorrow which costs me money and that makes me mad.
If i was important and had money i`d just turn it over to a attorney and say take care of it but that ain`t the case.
Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

2571 · Post by **2571** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:32 pm

Buy a mouthpiece instead of listening to amateurs on the internet.

Would you ask for brain surgery advice here?

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:08 pm

2571 wrote:Buy a mouthpiece instead of listening to amateurs on the internet.

Would you ask for brain surgery advice here?

Because these are my friends, i`m upset and their fellowship is a big help.
I said i`m going to have to talk to a attorney.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:14 pm

2571 wrote:Buy a mouthpiece instead of listening to amateurs on the internet.

Would you ask for brain surgery advice here?

Hey Pitchy, here's one of our own who is a lawyer. Come on 2571, cut 'ole Pitchy some slack and give him some free advice.---------------Sixgun

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:04 am

Where you at Mr. Counsel? Monday is not golf day. Come on, we are waiting for a miracle to happen------free advice from a lawyer

-----------------------Sixgun

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:13 am

I`m heading to town to talk to a attorney this morn, i`m thinking i`ll drag them both up here from the cities and sue them for taking the enjoyment of owning my property from me.
They have been told by written letter from a attorney in the past that they don`t own land on my side of the road.
The one even tried adverse possession and lost, he cost me 750.00 bucks.
Tired of this nonsense, it`s not they`er land and they know it.
Not once in 21 years has either one of them asked permission to do anything on my side of the road.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:44 am

Pitchy wrote:MadMan, there is no doubt about the surveyed line and he knows where it is.
We are talking about road right away on my side of the road. Road right away is 33 feet from the center of the road.
Legaly he can park on my side of the road on RR, what i`m not sure about is if he can claim any Road right away as his land by using it.
I`ve got both yes and no opinions in the past.
So off too the court house and lawyer tomorrow which costs me money and that makes me mad.
If i was important and had money i`d just turn it over to a attorney and say take care of it but that ain`t the case.
Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

Believe you will find the answer being--------------No (and while he can STOP/and sure maybe have his car in PARK possibly for an extreme short time he cannot park it all day/overnight etc.)

Up here along the roads once you leave the road edge you have a aprox 4ft shoulder and then people lawns start(and I am talking country/out of town limits) I defy anyone to pull their car 13ft up on their lawn and PARK their car

(in their lawn)but actually it could be a hay field same deal.
That extra distance they give is for an emergency(road snow removal distance removal etc,)
If that yahoo of yours is PARKING HIS CAR on YOUR side off the shoulder and on your land road right of way or not-------he is wrong----at least up here!

Good luck friend!

JMHO

Being that road has legal right of way of 33ft from center(that seems very high)?? Is this a state access road/highway???
Since this right of way allows public access(you cannot post it)until over the 33ft from center.Since you cannot post it(keep people off it)No adverse possession can take place.

I believe your lawyer will tell you that the 33ft(from center)along you allows right of way(THAT IS NOT PARKING)what I mean is the car has to be in the process of going to and from.(same as someone has right of way across your land(say they own a home out back of your home and have ONLY right of way claim.(they cannot park/block/obstuct any of that tract of land)unless an emergency/stranded vehicle occurance etc.(same as with a state road that the land on the edges of the road(when that being out past the right of way distance is owned by someone OTHER than the state.
33ft(or 66ft total both sides seems high)

Bet you will find---------------------NO he cannot claim that area period.
Also, normally the land section that is right of way(the part from center of road,that 33ft)would be maintained by your township IF you did not mow it and they deemed it requiring mowing???????????Example (a farmers corn field that has corn planted 50ft from road but that extra 17ft he just lets it sit(if township deems the growth inhibits safe travel)they usually just mow it??????/
Here it is 50ft (ROW)combined?????????(unless high volume road/or state highway---then it varies)
Then again that 25ft (from center)is only for persons (in motion going to and from) You park your car(best be broke down)or it gets towed. No different than a sidewalk that you own in town.Can tavel it/but cannot loiter on it!

JMHO

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:18 am

2571 wrote:Buy a mouthpiece instead of listening to amateurs on the internet.

Would you ask for brain surgery advice here?

Funny you say not to listen to amateurs on the internet, and then go on and do the exact thing you told him not to do!! You are such a tool!!!

Steve

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:27 am

Here, I looked the term RIGHT OF WAY (under section for deeds)

Is this what that guy is doing???????????

Right-of-Way - A right-of-way is a type of easement that gives someone the right to travel across property owned by another person.
Parking his frigin car for how long he wants isn't traveling???
Mowing that area is an act other than the clear intenet of traveling to and from somewhere (even if he is moving)

Tell the fool to keep off your lawn(easemnet or not)??? He is ruining it(not cutting it properly)to YOUR SATISFACTION(and that can be very vaque)Maybe what you consider(your proper lawn/in that area 8"??)your call until it becomes what the township deems unsafe??

Definition of traveling-----------out of Mr. Webster
"going to different places instead of staying in one place"

Wished he lived up here I might be able to help educate him!

JMHO

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:33 am

Nope, this right of way is the right of way is the townships right of way on a public road. They have use of and so does the public so many feet from the center of the road. In this case 33 feet each way from center.
Just got home from talking to the county surveyer and all he`s doing is helping the township mow the ditch, which the township just did anyway.
And irritating me, but nothing he can do as far as claiming any of the land.
And even if he tried it would be 15 years from now before he could do anything.
So i`m good for now i guess, thanks for the support pards.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:56 am

I work with a Young Man Pitchy who fancys Him self a Rebel who can pretty much do and Say what He wants when He wants. He has a Hi-Power four wheeler and has several times evaded land owners and the cops driveing thru the woods and power lines.He sees nothing wrong cutting thru posted field and woods. this has gone on for a few years now.
Just in the last few months He has noticed opening His door to get the bike out He has one or more flat tires. someone had put out spike strips using very thin nails so He was long gone before the tires went flat.

. He is slowly getting the message.

.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:23 pm

I`ve thought about that but i never know when the guy is up or when the township might be mowing ditches.
I was thinking more about wait till the guy is up and go down there on my mower and mow my side of the road and his, real real short.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:37 pm

Dirty tricks have a way of backfiring most of the time

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:47 pm

Neighbors can be good friends, but honestly, Pitchy, never trust anyone when it comes to money or real estate.

The plain fact is that if he's tending it, he either thinks it's his, or he wants it for his own and he's setting you up for a legal shenaningan.

Even if it's not true and you never have to, be prepared to defend (and I mean legally ala documentation

) what's yours.

Then go talk to the pushy *** and tell him what's on your mind.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:48 pm

That would be one way to solve it,just be a Good neighbor and return the favor..... I had one who used to enjoy the Quiet every weekend while I was at work both days. then every Monday evening at 7.00pm he would cut his grass for a few hours. takeing His good ole time when all of My windows were open.
After a while the Wife made monday Her shopping day/evening and I made it a point to start My mower when He was about finished. sometimes I had to turn the lights on the mower.

.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:06 pm

.45colt wrote:That would be one way to solve it,just be a Good neighbor and return the favor..... I had one who used to enjoy the Quiet every weekend while I was at work both days. then every Monday evening at 7.00pm he would cut his grass for a few hours. takeing His good ole time when all of My windows were open.
After a while the Wife made monday Her shopping day/evening and I made it a point to start My mower when He was about finished. sometimes I had to turn the lights on the mower. .

IME, inconsiderate people will never make the connection. They will just assume that you are the one being inconsiderate.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:42 pm

FWiedner wrote:Neighbors can be good friends, but honestly, Pitchy, never trust anyone when it comes to money or real estate.

The plain fact is that if he's tending it, he either thinks it's his, or he wants it for his own and he's setting you up for a legal shenaningan.

Even if it's not true and you never have to, be prepared to defend (and I mean legally ala documentation ) what's yours.

Then go talk to the pushy *** and tell him what's on your mind.

Just be cautious in talking with that County Surveyor(He might be right on that/maybe not???)
Probably is Pitchy-----but Surveyors each have their own opinion in dealing with older abstract deeds.(many vary their opinions where)????
I would assume finding the oldest deed possible regarding your land and then the oldest deed possible showing a (a public road) with whatever proper variance given on your property that would be what is being true.
The older deed supersedes any latter providing it is all still in one piece of land(no sign-offs etc)

Have seen too many times (surveyors being wrong)

Only true way is to verify prior deeds(takes work)verify via a legal land attorney it is such case.

You must be able to verify public records and go back through your deeds and look for that 33ft variance.(many times they are different home to home.(It all depends upon the geography of the land)example----huge elevated drainage ditch 50ft wide(they can be a variance of 50ft instead of 33ft so that the township has complete maintenance control.(it will reflect that)
We have homes along our road that are not 33ft even back from the road

(not me)so just be cautious.
So the guy mowing it(he is your neighbor on other side of road)and he told town surveyor he is helping town out????

I question both of those guys?????????
Good luck-----

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:20 pm

Example of Right Of Way law in your state Pitchy.
Read whole first page----------see what it says------only used for (TRAVELING)(Road Maintenance)

If what that Town Surveyor is telling you your neighbor is doing that(for free)or is employed by town
have him put that in writing. Thus this will reflect that neighbor was NOT in pursuit of Adverse Possession.

Here it something related------note very bottom first page(you can request a written copy/statement of public ROW for YOUR ROAD!

www.co.lake.mn.us/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC...

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:24 pm

So the guy mowing it(he is your neighbor on other side of road)and he told town surveyor he is helping town out????

Naw bro, the county surveyor is a good guy and has never met this guy.
Don`t worry all the surveys and deeds are updated and correct, i`ve been dealing with these boundry lines for 20 years.
The guy is just being a jerk and nothing he can do, no worries.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:27 pm

from google type

lake county mn right of way

its the first one at top

Says exactly what a ROW is in Min

Sounds like you got it covered--------------were done here!

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:46 pm

Yepper that`s it, he can pretty much do what he wants on it.
I`m not concerned as long as he can`t claim any of it.
Thanks for your research bro.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:39 am

Pitchy wrote: The guy is just being a jerk

Pitch,
I know its not help but I want you to know you are not alone. The world is full of jerks today and it appears there are more jerks than normal people. Its the way our culture has been going.

Your story is nothing compared to what I have witnessed. I have a brother-in-law who built on the same farmland I did. (loooonnng story) After 45+ years and as he aged he realized he had nothing to retire on as he pis*ed away everything he worked and stole from others. So............he sues my s-i-l for a 50' right-of-way as he thinks he can build another house (to sell it) on his back 2 acres, knowing he has little chance of winning.

Well, he did not win and he is now in forclosure. The sorry fact is that it cost my s-i-l $60,000 to defend herself and it took away everything she had to live on during her retirement.

Word to the wise-----"Don't trust anyone when it comes to money or other type of personal gain"---------------Sixgun

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:23 am

Bummer story Sixgun, it`s a heck of a world huh.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:57 am

Sixgun wrote:
Pitchy wrote: The guy is just being a jerk
. The world is full of jerks today and it appears there are more jerks than normal people. Its the way our culture has been going.

In a lot of circles --- the jerks are being celebrated and revered too --- thats the troubling part. A guy who makes hundreds of thousands a year screwing people over is held up as respected "businessmen"

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:44 pm

To show how stupid these people on the other side of the road are they took their survey stakes with their names on them and threw them onto my property, on my side of the fence. We went down there and threw them and all the other garbage they`ve thrown over the fence and tossed it back over the fence.
Now we`ll see if they throw it back and go from there.
In the mean time i may go talk to the township and have them come out and take a look

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:00 pm

is it illegal to remove a survey marker?"

Yes, it is a misdemeanor in every state; however, you have to be able to prove it. Unless he formally confesses, you have it on video tape, or have a witness willing to testify, you can't prove it. However, if you inform him of the illegality of it, you don't have to inform him about proof, or lack thereof.

Dude, yep I am defintely now thinking they wanna TRY to claim adverse possession BIG TIME(wow).The kicker is they are using that ROW (that you own)as the first step for Adverse Possession.Anyone that will pull markers/stakes (illegal)are apt to try something else????????

Watch em close---------put up a Primos DPS($60) set it for 15 seconds and put up a C50 Blackout Cam for night and also day.(no visible glow/sound) on your property in question. Think you got some bad ones??????

ps-----I called today the powers to be (our area)via phone (they didn't charge me nothing)and asked on property legally owned by something with a ROW(other than going across it)can they MOW IT (if)the landowner owning the property does not want them to.
Answer I got----------------------NO! (they can only travel it)

Also asked about ROW----------do you OWN that section?????? Answer I got from how I explained things-------------YES,if not deed will specifically call out your owning property line stops before that ROW!(example shows state owns it) This section will show as not included in SQ FT/Acreage of your land and you will not be taxed on that section.If otherwise-------you own it and it does sound like they can try Adverse Possesssion with them by a slim chance owning the ROW if successful.(just don't count on the 15yrs deal)laws can change and if it goes down to 5 or 7 if you get lax on it(forget/let it slide)it will be up before you know it.
I would be concentrating on anything other than traveling it(by them)(I would legally start the fight)via recorded proof! (next mow job) unless they can show proof of them having employment by your township.

JMHO(no expert)

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:06 pm

These were only yhe wood lath stakes they stick in the road, the metal pins are still there.
They just threw them over the fence to get rid of them.
Interesting about the mowing, i`ll have to check into that.
I`m thinking maybe i`d better go get the attorney to send them all a letter explaining things.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:50 pm

Perhaps have the lawyer write a letter for them to sign, stating they make no claim to your property, now, or in the future, by adverse possesion or otherwise. That would simplify it.
if they want to mow it, fine then, it can't cause any trouble after signing a statetment to that effect. Let them mow it if they want to, and like how it looks, just so long as it can't cause repercusions to you. It can be worded pretty neutral, just a formality.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:31 am

Malamute wrote:Perhaps have the lawyer write a letter for them to sign, stating they make no claim to your property, now, or in the future, by adverse possesion or otherwise. That would simplify it.
if they want to mow it, fine then, it can't cause any trouble after signing a statetment to that effect. Let them mow it if they want to, and like how it looks, just so long as it can't cause repercusions to you. It can be worded pretty neutral, just a formality.

All six of them on the other side of the road were sent letters explaining that they don`t own land on my side of the road and not to dump there a few years ago.
They all just had to have their land discriptions up-dated last year that clearly shows the line is on there side of the road.
The question was can anyone claim land that`s Road ROW and by what i`ve been told so far no they can`t.
They shouldn`t dump across the road though and i`ll be watching that closely.
What bothers us is this stuff has been going on for 20 years and has been a irritant to us and keeps costing us money.
If it doesn`t stop i`m going to have to higher a good lawyer and put a stop to it in court.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:07 pm

A little present for ya bro-----------------------------

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca ... j0VlRa1mlA

and this one! (out of Minn.)

See 3a(11. 111.) If mowing wider than 8ft ----------------say,entire ROW(after the 8ft) it must stay at least 12"

(them proving a safety issue will be almost impossible)

Also 8b-1(11) Fee----------------Did you (or any prior owners)sell your ROW for fee to the Township?????? If not(yes,they(neighbors) "can try" going the A.P. route on ya)Since you own it---but if they get it same rules of ROW goes to them if successful in case of A.P.
Also---who owns the trees on a ROW------------------------YOU! Why because you own the ROW(unless sold ROW to township for Fee)trees included.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca ... GjQxcbhy6Q

JMHO

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:11 pm

I emailed an attorney that has done some work for me in the past and he said yep in 15 years he can claim AVP on RROW.
So i have an appointment with another real estate attorney in the morning.
I`m sick of this stuff and am going to have the attorney lay the hammer down.
Enough is enough.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:00 pm

Pitchy wrote:I emailed an attorney that has done some work for me in the past and he said yep in 15 years he can claim AVP on RROW.
So i have an appointment with another real estate attorney in the morning.
I`m sick of this stuff and am going to have the attorney lay the hammer down.
Enough is enough.

Ask him-----maybe call him(save you some bucks)

"If"------you post you land (posters being placed "after" the ROW(that being only where they mow etc.????)and tell him you with witnesses grant them your wishes of mowing on ROW would this negate possibility of neighbors claiming AP?????????
It is my understanding the line in which you place your posted signs is the line where you restrict trespass????
That is why you see many people that either don't have trees or trees are too far back use installed posts.

I would if that is correct place them about every 100ft apart in the line going inline with the ROW but back where that stops and your "non" ROW land begins.

Remember----only way they can do the ROW AP on you if you forbid them your approval of them being on it.
Heck,get a couple friends (non-related)and tell your neighbors good job mowing the ROW(I like it)keep doing it.(Log it signed and dated with friends signatures etc.)

Since the township is required to keep that ROW usable for people to go to and from(they should be liable there)if something happened to them.

If they step however "one inch" off the ROW and on your posted Line(Criminal Trespass on em)

Bet if you say(I love/want/THANK

you guys to mow that ROW)saves you time/gas

--------They will quit!

Tell em-----yep,thats ROW and you wouldn't keep them off that no more than they should keep you off their side?????????

In that section(being ROW)don't see how anything else beats that route.

JMHO

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:53 pm

We had an orchard that bordered an access road on the perimeter of a neighbors hayfield.

Because the guy used to take his mowers, balers, sleds and trucks down the road, we built our fence several feet back off of the property line to give the guy some room so we wouldn't have to keep repairing the fence.

Left it go for a few years and one day this cheeky bastid says he's filed with the county to take possession because he's used the property for his road for years and has established claim, and after all, we weren't using it.

The strip was around 8ft wide and about 400ft long.

We didn't wait for some a-hole down at the courthouse to screw us. We spent a week moving our fence closer to the property line, and dared him to do something about it.

Left that bastid an access about 5ft wide to try and get his equipment into his field. He whined and complained and my Stepdad told right him right over the fence with the County Agent a witness that we tried to be neighborly and give him room to work, but he HAD to be an a-hole. The guy tried to back-pedal and said he didn't mean nothin' by it, and my Stepdad told him now he can live with it.

The guy finally had to lease land from another neighbor and grade a new road to get to his field.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:33 am

It is my understanding the line in which you place your posted signs is the line where you restrict trespass????

Actually i don`t think a person is allowed to post signs anywhere on ROW.
I may be in the wrong about where i put the private property sign. I just put them there this summer because his neighbor sold his lot and i wanted the new owner to know it`s my land.
I talked to that new owner and he said he wouldn`t do anything on the other side of the road.
This other guy knows what`s going on and is harrassing me.
We`ll see what this lawyer says this morning.

Neat story FWiedner

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:40 pm

Ok, the road is an easement so the row is my property.
The easy way to stop AVP is to send the guy a letter giving him permission to mow back to the private property signs.
So that`s what we are going to do, that`s where it stand for my situation others may vary.
Thanks all for the help.

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:47 pm

Pitchy,

You have my sympathies, but I think you're wise to have your lawyer lay down the boundaries. Recently, the parcel next to mine sold. Buyer has more money than he has sense. No doubt, we each own to the middle of the road, but adverse public possession since about 1832 clearly says 10 feet from the middle of the road including the bar ditch is PUBLIC property. Buyer purposely cut my phone line when he installed his culvert across the ditch because he wanted the phone company to lease the ditch to run my line from the hub. I show up, and read his offensive note attached to the temporary above ground line. I let him know about the statute and constitutional provisions, and that I work for 14 lawyers. Then, I proceed to call the phone company while his crew is there to ask them what they charge to replace a purposely cut line. Their response--minimum of $25,000. I ask his crew if they want to personally be responsible for those charges if I win my lawsuit because I naturally would bring them into it, and they say No! Imagine that! Next, I call back the owner to say the phone company wants at least $25,000 for his wrongful interference with public infastructure, and that 4 of the younger lawyers I work for want to file the lawsuit the next day. Wisely, I believe, he chose to be quiet and allow the line to be reinstalled in the ditch due to "accidental error in installation" in the words of the phone company.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:57 pm

Pitchy wrote:My property line goes to the south edge of a township road.
There are property owner on the south side of the road and all the properties where recently surveyed.
One owner was using my land and actually took it to court without my knowledge and tried to claim it as his but lost the case, he has moved away now and the new owner is not a problem.
The guy next to him though is mowing the grass on my side of the road as we just found out today.
I have private property signs up on a tree that is actualy on road right away.
There is a fence that`s on the road right away line.
My question is can he claim road right away by using it?
Irritates the heck out of me, i don`t go on his side of the road and mess around.

GOOD FENCES MAKE GOOD NEIGHBORS!

If I were you I would get any kind of fence up on the property line. It is kind of scary that someone would petition a court for ownership of your land and you not be notified..