Anyone Have a .33 Win model '86 ??

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:35 am

A truckdriver at work says He has an old 86 in .33 Winchester and may sell it. Anyone have one or shoot one.? any input appreciated.Jim.

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:50 am

I have one and love it. It is a shooter. It had the mag cut to 3/4 to lighten it. It was used on the "Nueces Strip" during the "Bandit Wars" by a short time Texas Ranger. It has 55 notches cut into the top of the butt stock. Because of law suits still going on for murder I can't get any provenance on the rifle. This is a controversial period of Texas history. I like the caliber and it is very accurate. I use it on deer and hogs mostly.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:58 am

I've had this one since 1976. It has killed a truckload of deer, one elk, and several wild dogs, (and a pigeon that landed in the field one time) and thats been in my hands. 42 grains of 3031 behind the Hornady 200 fp does excellent work. It won't win any accuracy awards but shoots acceptable 3-4" groups at 100. It has the special order full mag and a factory refinish that was done in the late 1930's. I make the brass from 45-70's.
Its the last rifle I will ever sell.--------------Sixgun

ps.--the tang sight does not look that bulky at the bottom--must be the glare.

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:38 am

Just talked to a gentleman at a gunshop yesterday . Said he had one and it was a take down model. I need to own one someday. It's on the list.

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:49 am

What was he asking for it? I purchased my 33 (1909) takedown a couple of years ago for $1050.00. The ones similar to mine are in the $2000.00 and up range now. Winchesters have become a MUCH better investment for me than my securites and you can't take a bunch of stocks and bonds to the range either!

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:49 am

Rangerider7 & Sixgun,thank You very much for the pictures and the great information. If they only could talk. Jim.

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:57 pm

I just got this last night. It's got a lot of problems, but the price was right. I've got a lot of plans for her:
http://www.auctionarms.com/Closed/Displ ... =8509342.0
I have a call in to Cody but I havne't received the info yet. It will be interesting to determine how a 33 wcf td smokeless rifle ended up with a black powder serial number, dating it ten years before the round was introduced. Nevertheless, I like it.

Sixgun,
Do you neck turn the 45-70 brass? I've got a lot of 40-65 and 45-70 I could use. How do you neck it down? I was thinking 45-70 would need to go through a 38-56 or 40-65 sizing die first.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:14 pm

71 Fan wrote: Sixgun,
Do you neck turn the 45-70 brass? I've got a lot of 40-65 and 45-70 I could use. How do you neck it down? I was thinking 45-70 would need to go through a 38-56 or 40-65 sizing die first.

71 Fan,
It was very common for owners of 1886 Winchesters that were from the blackpowder era to have their rifles rebarreled to the newer 33 round. This was done around the turn of the century to around the mid thirties. The action had the necessary strength and the 33 barrels are all nickel steel, so it was a safe conversion. Thats all that was needed was to replace the barrel. I have seen many of these over the years. The conversions that were done at the factory usually included a reblue job also. Thats why some of those rifles look "right".

To make .33's from 45-70's, I have the RCBS forming dies. But I see no reason why it cannot be done first with a 40-65 sizing die, (or 38-56) then down to the 33 sizing die. If you anneal the necks to soften 'em up, you might be able to just run the 45-70 down in one shot. (no pun intended!) They will still be needed to be trimmed, which I do on a Forster trimmer. Just be careful when setting the shoulder back as you can get head seperations as I have been known to do.

------------Sixgun

Larry O · Post by **Larry O** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:37 pm

I have a .33 Takedown and really like it. A few years ago, when that ammo was still rather cheap, I got a bunch but since then have used 45-70 brass. I have made a lot of .33 brass out of that 45-70 stuff without any failures. Remington brass holds up better than Winchester so keep that in mind. I got the last few boxes of 200 grain Hornady bullets here and also have two molds; one is from Rapine and the other RCBS. One has a plain base and the other a gas check and both are darn good. My rifle was made in 1908 and had belonged to a Game Warden out of Anaconda, Montana. I am the second-and last-owner of that rifle.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:34 pm

I have one that has been in the family since the 1930's, it was owned by my older foster brother when he was a young cowboy in the Dubois WY area before WWII. It eventually passed to me. It is very very used, as you might expect for a rifle that spent years in a saddle scabbard.

I now use it for Metallic Silhouette, using cast bullets. I mounted a Marbles tang sight and use the original bead front. I still have 7 boxes of the Hornady bullets but am loath to shoot them as the last price I saw on ebay was $75.00 a box!!

The bore is not good, but I still manage an occasional 30x40 with it, I just like to shoot it in honor of the previous owner. A real cowboy gun owned by a real cowboy.

Dave James · Post by **Dave James** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:10 pm

Love my 33, but have run out of the Hornaday FP's and now that their not producing them haven't found a bullet I like, cast is okay but not my favorite,,,am toying with the idea of either a re-chamber/bore out or a re-barrel to another round.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:05 pm

Fungus Sam on this Forum has a really nice one.

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:51 am

Hawk Bullets offers four weights of jacketed flatpoints from 180 to 250 gr. Has anyone tried these yet? Three are listed under the heading "33 wcf." Sounds good to me, I think I'll order some and try them out. They run about $32 to $35 per 50.

Midway lists "Quality Cartridge Brass" at $2 / shell
Graf & Sons lists two makers at $1.10 to $1.51 per shell.

It isn't cheap but it's doable.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:18 am

Although I have a nice stash of the Hornady 200 grainers, plus I can cast, I don't see any problem with buying cheaper 200 and 225 grain bullets designed for the 338 magnum. Thats all you would have to do is make up a little jig for a belt sander and push 'em in one at a time to flatten 'em up some. While these may not be great for hunting (due to their tough construction), it sure would give the accuracy needed or the bullets needed for a guy who does not cast.-------------Sixgun

Fungus Sam · Post by **Fungus Sam** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:33 am

I enjoy shooting my vintage TD in .33 WCF, but have not taken any game with it, YET! I use Redding form dies to neck down 45-70 brass. Trimming is necessary but no neck turning. I've also used Jameson brass, which is fine. Due to the Iraq/Afghan war, it is currently unavailable from Jameson. I shoot both cast and Hornady FN, neither with outstanding accuracy. Tom

Larry O · Post by **Larry O** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:43 pm

Fungus Sam:
Thought that I might pass this on to you as you say you are having trouble with accuracy in your .33. The load that I use for hunting, I got from a 1936 reloading handbook. It calls for 4831(old Style) at 53 grains under that Hornady 200 grain soft point. I got 0.221" group at 25 yards and at 100 yards a 1.4" group. Again this is the old style 4831. Never tried the new stuff. I tried 25.2 grains of 2400 with the RCBS 200 grain gas check and the best I got was 1.25" at 100 yards.. I never got around to testing the Rapine mold yet but one of these days. Just remember that this was in MY rifle ( a takedown) with my old powder. So keep that in mind if you go off testing. I got some (20 rounds) of those .33 cases that are listed in Midway last year. They are alright but I think that the reformed 45-70's are better and less expensive.

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:07 pm

Larry O:
Quick question... Are you sure your data came from a 1936 loading manual? 4831 wasn't around then. Surplus 4831 gave Hogdon his start after World War II, selling it by the pound in paper bags. Dupont came out with IMR 4831 in response to the drying up of the surplus stocks.

Larry O · Post by **Larry O** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:46 pm

Sorry about that. It actually was copied from the Handloader Issue No. 65 dated 01/02/1977. I was looking at another copy of another issue that dealt with the .33 when I stated that. The author of the Handloader article was a Jim Hanson. There are also loads for the .33 listed in the Third Edition of Hornady's Handbook of Reloading Third Edition of 1980. And Phil Sharpe's book "The Complete Guide to Handloading" has some good stuff on the .33 also. Hope this eliminates some confusion.