Old bikers getting killed

[Booger Bill]

This one dates back to 1978. I had just met a future GF over at another friends house. I was on my harley and told her I would go home, change and come and get her with my truck for dinner. I was headed home WITH my headlight on as it was starting to get dark. I had the right away, no stop sign. However a woman blew a stop sign, never even slowed. There was no way I could miss her and I broad sided her probley at 45 mph. I flew over her car. She actualy kept driveing untill she could find a place to turn around and come back. Meanwhile the first person to come to me was a off duty california highway patrolman that was doing something in his front yard just yards away from the accident. He said man, you didnt stand a chance, when my buddy gets here I will have him ticket her and we will bring you a copy of it in the hospital! About that time she showed up and the first thing she said, what kind of insurance do you have? I work for state farm!! I still am laid out on the street! Then the guy tells her he is a off duty CHP and seen her blow the stopsign. Then she tried to say I was running with no lights. He knew I had them on.
The two chps did bring me a copy of her ticket a little later in the hospital! On that one I broke my nose as my helmit came forward and made a perfect imprint in the hard liner. Actualy the same thing happened about 10 years prior in another accident. I hurt my back and got scuffed up some. I held out with her insurance company for a good price on the harley and let them have it. I didnt have a drop of insurance at the time! I was dumb and probley didnt get half of what I could have for the day and age.
The date? Somehow when I didnt show up she checked the hospital and for the next 3 or 4 days she sat in my room. We dated for a year or so when I got released.

[Old Ironsights]

My last Yamaha 650 special looked like that just before I sold it for parts...

In my case, I ended up laying on the hood of the car I rear ended. Better than the alternative(s) which were to fly off the overpass or take oncoming traffic head on...

[earlmck]

We lost another biker yesterday in Oregon. "Lt. Gregg Hastings says Michael Bartlett was riding Wednesday with a group of other motorcyclists when he lost control on a curve and went off the road, causing his bike to tumble and eject him. Bartlett was dead at the scene. Hastings says he was wearing a helmet."

I know that road well. Far eastern Oregon, gentle curves, no traffic. How the "H" did he miss a curve there?

I'm going to quit worrying about folks trying to kill me: us bikers are killing ourselves a lot more often than somebody else doing it to us.

At 67 I still think about hopping on another ride, and in fact every year I consider getting into the fray again.

Come on back, John. I'm thinking as long as we realize our reflexes have slowed and take some "Kentucky windage" for this fact, we might as well be enjoying the ride. Some of the finest rides I've made were on the little "blue highways" going up into the Sierras. A little wisdom should compensate for a lot of reflexes.

Loud Pipes Save Lives...

Well maybe. Especially if the loud pipes help keep us awake!

[stretch]

I'm going to quit worrying about folks trying to kill me: us bikers are killing ourselves a lot more often than somebody else doing it to us.

I think slightly more than half of all motorcycle accidents are single-vehicle crashes.
A fairly high percentage of them are alcohol-related. (You'd think people would know
better in this day and age than to ride around drunk!) I'm reminded of a quote from the early days of aviation: "The air, even more than the sea, is terribly unforgiving of the smallest mistake". The same relationship exists between bikes and cars. Car drivers
routinely perform maneuvers that would get a motorcyclist killed in short order.

Of accidents involving other vehicles, the overwhelming majority are caused
by the driver of the other vehicle. This has been true since they started
studying such things in the '70s. Lights on helps. Bright colors helps, too.
There was an FAA study done on small aircraft crashes and near misses involving
other aircraft. Visibility was an issue. Even with strobes and and bright colors,
the FAA came to this conclusion: If you want to be seen better, fly a bigger airplane.

Ride alertly and safely out there. They ARE out to kill ya!!

-Stretch

[Booger Bill]

Guys, I lived on bikes many years, probley as much or more than the worst of you. I never "planned" on ever quitting. But things happened and I have. Probley the biggest and maybe only reason is I and my wife put together are over 600 lbs. Unless we went with a trike there isnt a bike built that is big enough to haul us comfortably. Also a money factor as I will not lay out $20,000s for a hawg. I used to buy em for $1,000 to $1,500s a couple years old!
We now ride a quad. We both love it. I am 71. We belong to a club and the majority of the people are close to my age bracket. I bought a 2005 bombardier 650 cc traxtor when we moved here to SW utah in 2,005. It was the first legal quad built to haul 2 up. It has a ton of power and torque and I hardly know theresa is behind me. In the last 7 years since we bought it the industry has really come out with a lot of even better machines like the can am commander and polaris RZR. They are side by sides almost big as a jeep but will go absolutly everywhere. Nothing stops these machines. We love rideing the trails here. It is about our main thing we do. I also have a snowplow on it in winter. We often ride 40 miles into the back country. Most younger people will ride more than twice that, but that is enough for our tender butts. If we had a side by side we would go farther. The big danger is to go by yourself and break down 40 miles from the nearest road in steep wild country. Thats why we like to ride with another couple or more. You may never walk out if your in bad shape! We still do many shorter rides by ourselves on more traveled trails. Earlier this year I tipped us over and the quad pinned us. Fortunately there were two other couples with us that quickly lifted it off us. Thats why its smart to go with others. Check out the blue lead to our last club ride about a week ago. Theresa took all the photos. The ride started only about a dozzen miles from our house.
http://funandfitlife.net/past-ride-phot ... -club.html

[EastKY_DO]

I do know one old biker who has a saying that he lives by. "Everyone else on the road is crazy and trying to kill you"

Maybe he has a point, although I don't think it's quite that bad, but the trick is identifying the ones that are going to try to kill you before it's too late, and maybe one should also look in the mirror.

I used this philosophy when teaching my two boys to drive:

Always remember two rules.
Rule #1 - The roads are full of idiots.
Rule #2 - They're all out to get you.

[Pitchy]

Loud Pipes Save Lives...

I`ve found that to be true many times over the years especially when it comes to deer.
The year or so we yad a wing the close calls with deer were far more than with our Harley's with loud pipes.
I`ve found that the most dangerous deer are the one that come out of nowhere at a dead run across the highway.
Riding with others side by side is more dangerous too, was riding beside a friend one time on a highway and a deer came flying out of the ditch. It came right up beside my friends bike, he was on the ditch side, then turned and ran right beside us.
If it would of kept coming straight it would of piled us both up.
I hardly ever ride at night anymore just m still here.
Don`t know if it was mentioned but another very dangerous obstacle is sand on the road anywhere but especially corners.
Or oil at stop lights in cities can cause stopping a problem.
Bikes are dangerous no doubt, probably more so now than in the old days because of higher speeds and more idiots.because of the deer risk.
Was another story back in my drinking days which added two dangers together and probably because it was Gods will i`

[Booger Bill]

I used to be a lockheed guard in burbank calif back in about 1967 when this story took place. Our uniforms were identical to the local LE at the time. I and my best friend and rideing buddy got off at midnight. It was a hot night and instead of going straight home we decided to just ride. Around 2am to 3am we were rideing down glen oaks blvard. There wasnt a car to be seen. We were just putting along probley around 35 mph talking to each other side by side. Suddenly I heard a vehicle hit passing gear from behind us and his lights opened the road up! This guy was out to kill us! We both were very good riders. My friend in fact, had been a ex motor officer. We split and he went through us wide open with the motor straining! It was a hot el camino. A woman passinger had her hand to her mouth screaming! He probley was doing 90 to our 35 and climbing! Maybe two blocks ahead was a red light and he went through it wide open! We didnt stand a chance of catching him. I suppose we both were armed in those days.
Maybe a week or two later it sounds like the same guy again tried to run my friend down rideing on his way home. Bill again avoided him and dumped it on somebodys lawn. Others had the same problem and the newspaper had warnings out on this menace.
Finaly it sounded like he was caught. 45 years ago, but there are plenty more like him out there.

[Booger Bill]

Another thing to watch for is iron manhole covers on a curve. I once went over one in a curve and the back end come around on me. I didnt lose it, but should have. I had a uncle that rode in the 1930s and 40s that had told me he went down on one and had warned me about it. I imagine it could be a lot worse if wet from rain. Aways have to watch those people that want to make a left turn. I once worked with a retired california highway patrol captain for our area. He told me he NEVER would make a left hand turn. He claimed he might ride 4 miles and make a bunch of turns to avoid it in traffic!
I admit I was a wild rider many years ago. I was one of those guys that would fly between cars on a slow freeway. The real problem with that type rideing is you see a opening and gun it to get in that opening, than you see another offset ahead. You gun it again, but you are still carrying too munch speed from the last opening and soon you look down and see you are doing maybe 80 in heavy slower traffic. Also you better hope no one opens his door to get rid of his chew! It is too easy to get in a situation where you are depending on flying by so fast slower traffic that hasnt spotted you as you dont want to shake them up!
I did that foolishness a lot many years ago right in los angels freeway traffic. I got away with it but know I was dumb and lucky!
Me and my 63 harley in those days.

[Old Ironsights]

Loud Pipes Save Lives...

I`ve found that to be true many times over the years especially when it comes to deer.
The year or so we yad a wing the close calls with deer were far more than with our Harley's with loud pipes....

I will admit to being as annoyed as most when a few hundred loud pipe bikes come rolling past my bedroom at all hours of the night...

But then, I DO live on one of the major routed to Sturgis.

OTOH, if that annoyance makes Granny look at me and give me the finger, well, at least she won't hit me.

I just wish there was a "mute" switch I could install on my bike for when there is little/no traffic...

[stretch]

Well, Booger Bill - you look and sound as if you're having
an awful lot of fun regardless of the number of wheels!!!

-Stretch

[Booger Bill]

Thanks. Used to do the flying thing and smokey the bandit too! Life was good before I dicovered girls and child support.

[earlmck]

Life was good before I dicovered girls and child support.

But it looks like your are having great times on that 4-wheeler, Bill. I've so far I've only used one for work (and maybe a bit for hauling critters out when hunting) but those Utah rides sound fun! And you don't have the level of hazards faced by bikers on highways.

[azzhandler]

I was hit while on my roadking last october while waiting on oncoming traffic so I could turn left, the lady hit me from behind doing over 40 mph and never hit the brakes, I ended up on her trunk, she never got out of her car to see if I was ok, and had the gall to tell the state patrol she barely bumped me, she did over $11,000 damages to my bike and so far I have $ 68,000 in medical bills and her insurance company has only paid $400 of them, now the hospitals and physical therapists are threatening to send it to collections.

[Booger Bill]

Wow! Hope you win out on that one. You need a good lawyer and sue her for all damages etc. Should get extra for suffering etc. Let us know how that turns out for you.
I am lucky to live in some of the best atv trails in the country. I belive I have traveled just about every trail in a 70 mile radius, and there is lots of them. I am haveing to go a little farther lately to hit new trails. My favorites are all in the high country. Its all BLM around here. There are some closers and its a constant battle to keep trails open. If its fun there is always people that want to stop it. Some of these trails have 50" gate at sections to keep the wider side by sides off. The polaris RZR is the only side by side built at 50"s far as I know but its also considered one of the best.
We can OC guns here on the trails so thats a plus. That is handguns. Actualy I am not real sure if carrying loaded rifles is legal or not. Hunting regulations probley enter into that.

[BenT]

I've notice over the last ten years that almost all the bike -deer crashes involve Harleys. I believe some of it is inexperience. But I think most of it is do to with forward controls. Evasive manuvers doesn't seem to work when all your weight is on your butt with your feet out in front of you. You have better balance and control with your feet underneath you. I drive standard bikes and have evaded deer without wetting myself, O K maybe once. So get a harley with floor boards or a sportster if living in deer country.

One thing I've done for years is buy offroad head lamp bulbs. The standard is 55wLow/65whigh. The offroad one is 55w/110w. It really lights up the ditches at night.

[El Chivo]

again, I'm talking bicycle, but they recently painted bike lanes in our street. Then they painted an outline of a bike and cyclist on the ground which looks exactly like a chalk outline after a fatal accident.

I haven't taken the bait yet, if you ask me it's a setup.

[Lastmohecken]

I've notice over the last ten years that almost all the bike -deer crashes involve Harleys. I believe some of it is inexperience. But I think most of it is do to with forward controls. Evasive manuvers doesn't seem to work when all your weight is on your butt with your feet out in front of you. You have better balance and control with your feet underneath you. I drive standard bikes and have evaded deer without wetting myself, O K maybe once. So get a harley with floor boards or a sportster if living in deer country.

One thing I've done for years is buy offroad head lamp bulbs. The standard is 55wLow/65whigh. The offroad one is 55w/110w. It really lights up the ditches at night.

You were just lucky with the deer, trying to out think the deer is tricky at best, will they go on accross or turn back, or will they just stand there, it's a stuff shoot. I don't think it has much to do with foward controls because I have rode with foward controls for years and much prefer them to floorboards. However, there are a lot of inexperienced Harley riders out there, but a deer is very unpredictable, which is why I try to avoid riding at peak travel times for deer, and I also know most of their regular crossings.

[hightime]

I've been riding for almost fifty years. In the last twenty I've been riding Wings, one with a two person covertable sidecar. I've taken MSC training several times including a two up course. I sometimes ride with a club and safety is a regular topic of discussion. We are drilled constantly on brake modulation. It's number one in my book, yet without a lot of training it's hard to do right in a panic situation. Learn it and practice it.

Also most of us don't think deer whistles don't work. Deer seem to ignore constant noise. I do see deer look up when I have my radio loud.

Owen

[Lastmohecken]

I don't think deer whistles work either

. Being able to brake effectively helps, but you don't want to ride you brakes into a deer or dog.

If you can stop that's great, but If I can't, at the last moment, I am going to roll on the throttle, and get the front end up a little instead of having it compressed while braking. That way you can sometimes run over or cut a dog in two and stay up instead of going down, but if you ride your brakes into a dog or deer, you are going down for sure, probably.

I have known riders that have cut Germanshepards in two, and stayed up, and one that cut a deer in two and stayed up. Little dogs don't scare me much, but I would hate to have to hit a big dog or deer with a bike, but some old timers told me the best way to survive is stiffen up on the handlebars and roll on the gas at the last moment, because if you ride your brakes into one you're going down for sure.

I did hit one dog (probably 50lbs or better) on a dirt road, but I was almosts stopped, and I didn't go down, however it was close, and the dog got caught on the front wheel, and I couldn't get off of him, and he couldn't get loose for a couple of moments. I was real lucky, that time. I did have the bike locked up, and sliding in the gravel, and because I had the front brake locked also, more or less, I was pinching the dog in the gravel in front of my tire. The only thing that saved me was I was nearly stopped and I managed to keep the front wheel straight.

[Lastmohecken]

Another time, I was riding a sportster, and I had been riding my Wide Glide more often and was used to the braking on the Wide Glide, but it had a flat that day, so I took the sportster to town.

A little dog ran out in front of me, I was going probably 65, and I went into an emergency braking siduation, I hadn't been riding the sportster much at the time and ended up in some sort of tank slapper, but I got it back under control, and the dog froze in the road, and I ended up riding by him within a foot at 30mph. I guess I was lucky again on that one, but I learned a lesson or two.

One is I sorta went into a panic, hit my brakes too hard, I couldn't have stopped anyway, and the dog was little and I could have ran over him, and stayed up, I basically lost control of the bike before I even got to the dog, but recovered. I would have been better off to have slowed down, but kept my head, and control of the bike. I guess the only plus was that all of the noise I made when I hit my brakes made the dog freeze, or it might have been darting everywhere.

Even in a car, I have hit several dogs over my lifetime and a deer or two. When it happens it's usually so quick, and unexpected, that there is little one can do. You do have a lot better chances in a car, of not totally wrecking, but on a bike it's tricky at best, I even know of a wreck where the deer hit the rider in the side of the bike, but I can't remember the details, however, the rider did survive, but went down for sure.

I have had several close calls lately on deer with my car, but it's on a dirt road, and I was going slow, still yet it was close on several occasions. So, I watch really close going through there.

[Booger Bill]

Awhile back my wife and I was on a trail on our two seat atv. It was one of the very few times that she drove with me sitting behind her. The trail was narrow cutting through some scrub juniper trees. A deer jumped over the front end of the quad probley missing her nose by a foot!
Once years ago I did a dumb thing you seldom see. My ex wife and I had our young daughter between us rideing motorcycle. Now before this I wasnt sure of the legalitys and even called one of the most known magazine touring motorcycle writers on it. He even didnt know the answer. It was a hot summer night we went on a desert dirt road in the middle of nowhere and was putting along slowly. Finaly the dirt turned to blacktop. I kicked her up and we had our ears laid back and a coyote jumped in front of us. I didnt hit it but I think my leg brushed it!
Another time I flew my plane from california to wisconsin. I was takeing up quite a few relatives and friends for rides as most of them had never been up before. I took up cusin corkey for a extended flight. He, me, or both of us had to take a whizz. I spotted what I thought was a very small airstrip running through a chrismas tree farm. In retrospect it wasnt, just a lane to work the trees I guess with a tractor and equipment. The "lane" was very narrow, about a foot or two beyound each wingtip to the closely planted trees. Just as I had flaired out a huge buck ran out ahead of me! He kicked it up into high as I was closeing on his tail! I was standing on my brakes with the stick stuck back in my gut and I still was gaining on him! Finaly the deer veered to jump back in the trees but they were so super thick he decided to dart back and try to outrun my prop! We played tag again. My cousin was bellering in my ear, (He was sitting behind me), Ya are gonna hit him, ya are gonna hit him! Indeed I think at one point my prop did nip the bucks tail! We did our business turned the plane around and tried to take off. The first time I chopped the throttle and had to try again the other direction. Obvisely we made it out the secound try. I guess I didnt scare corkey out of flying as after that he went and took some lessons!

[Pitchy]

Just to show ya don`t have to be old to have an accident on a bike.
One time in Phoenix when i was stationed there and was in my 20`s and drank heavy.
I left a bar one night late and headed home in Avandale, it had rained hard.
I was going 80-90 mph when i came over a hill and the road was flooded over.
I hydroplaned and went down, when i came to a stop i layed there wondering if i was dead or alive or broken up.
Nothing was broken other than the clutch lever and a beer glass that i stole and had down inside my coat.
Slid right down the middle of that highway and came to a stop right beside the bike.
I looked up and there was an old Mexican feller standing there and he asked if i needed some help.
I have no idea where he came from as i seen no other cars, i still think he was an Angel.
He gave me a push start and i road home.
Next day i looked things over and found the back of my helmet was worn through the fiberglass and both shoulders of my flight jacket.
Anyone that knows that highway from Luke to Avandale knows that there are huge palm trees on both sides of the road.
God does watch over us.

[JohndeFresno]

The dog thing...
On a few occasions, I recall how a dog or two would run up to my bike while I was on a rural highway (en route to work); and then the dog started to run alongside me, barking and carrying on - typical "car chasing" stuff. I would yell at the dog and kick out at it and it momentarily distracted the dog as I rolled on the throttle. But I had no serious encounters, fortunately.

I wonder now - would a small compressed air horn - like the type used at sporting events - do the trick for the more determined dogs?

[Adobe Walls]

Howdy.

The slowing of reflexes, dimming of eyesight, overall health, and daydreaming of decades gone by can sure enough mess up a guy's driving. I had a conversation with a geriatric fighter pilot that no longer trusted himself behind the stick or yoke anymore, and he had 50 years of continous active flying experience to fall back on. I suppose the old and bold thing applies here too. It just happens, and your best defense is to acknowledge that it happens and adjust yourself as needed. Adobe Walls

[hightime]

Lastmohecken, Of course you're right, the best way to stay up is get back on the throttle after you cut your speed as much as possible. Anyway for me, I've decided to limit my road time and go to the woods with the bikes. I still go down, but don't get hurt as bad.

Owen

[Blaine]

With this new scoot, I've ridden over pot holes, rocks, gravel, small logs, etc that would have had me down on a pure street bike. I've gained some new confidence with this jewel, and it's a great highway cruise, too.

[hightime]

I'd go that route too if I wasn't going to ride dirt mostly or ride double on a highway. Nice bike. Is that a FJ ?

Owen

[earlmck]

Just got back from a nice ride -- a bit over 200 miles of which less than 20 miles would have been "boring" straight stuff. Using ideas a feller might pick out of the things said on this thread we had a very enjoyable ride, no close calls or excitement at all. 1) Daylight 2) Not in a big group (1 buddy) 3) Little back roads mostly with no traffic 4) eyeballed everybody I met as "ready to kill me" and was ready to react 5) took the twistys a little slower than I used to. 6) using our nimble, capable dual-sports.

JohnDayCnyn027.jpg

twistyroad025.jpg

Obstacles on the road -- cows and calves. Just slow down and be ready. Calves are totally predictable: they are going to dive for mama: the only question is: which of those cows is mama? He knows but I may not. One coyote pup I had to hit the brakes for, but I think I'd have had to really do some fancy maneuvering to hit him -- he was moving away with great dispatch.

I think that realizing we ourselves are statistically our biggest hazard so riding with a little extra care; and watching the opposition with a real suspicious eye ready for them to try to kill us; this should make this "old biker" thing quite survivable.

[El Chivo]

I looked up and there was an old Mexican feller standing there and he asked if i needed some help.
I have no idea where he came from as i seen no other cars, i still think he was an Angel

Actually you are right that was Angel Martinez...

[Blaine]

I'd go that route too if I wasn't going to ride dirt mostly or ride double on a highway. Nice bike. Is that a FJ ?

Owen

Yamaha Super Tenere.....A BMW clone for a couple thousand less.

[OJ]

Speaking as a rider who started riding and ancient HD (suicide clutch model - cost me and my roommates $5 - total $15) in 1940 and since has owned and ridden 16 bikes - at least half dirt bikes - with no accidents involving other vehicles and only injuries self inflicted - on dirt bikes in the wild - I conclude on reading accident reports in the papers that some basic rules are being ignored and cause most accidents - top being the old pilot's rule of "8 hours from bottle to throttle" - don't mix ANY alcohol with riding. OK - I was under legal age for driving - I grew up a cowboy and we all started driving trucks - being big enough to do that but not big enough to lift the feed being passed out to cattle from the rear end -

DON'T GO ANYWHERE YOUR MIND HASN'T GONE AT LEAST 8 SECONDS BEFORE

DON'T TAILGATE OR ALLOW ANYONE TO DO IT TO YOU

DON'T RIDE IN ANY OTHER VEHICLE DRIVER'S "BLIND SPOT"

Not understanding principles of "countersteering" seem to claim a big part also - motorcycles are not just motorized bicycles.

One other good idea when changing lanes on freeways is use hand signals rather than the electric ones since hand signals don't continue to function after the change is made.

So, I started riding motorcycles at age 14 and now, at 86 years on this planet, I had to give up my much loved BMW Airhead ('77 R100S - dual plugged electronic ignition, stiffened suspension, etc) three years ago - my parts (knees) are wearing out plus my cardiac problems require meds that prevent blood clotting - tough decision to have to part with that "one of a kind" bikes - with only 70,000 miles on the meter - still a teen-ager by Airhead standards.



It's now living in Vermont with a new owner who knew what he was getting and paid full asking price plus cost of shipping bike from Colorado to Vermont.

[OJ]

Looking back, I see I forgot (age related memory) a couple of things I wanted to mention - one is, as a surgeon working in several hospitals, there was always room in the doctor's parking lot for my bike -

The other is - I spent over a couple of thousand hours in this - and similar - vehicles.



Matter of fact, biking has frequently been described as "flying on a budget".

[JB]

I had a dirt bike as a kid, but I wouldn't touch a road bike now. My bones don't heal as the once did. There's far too many deer, potholes, and bad drivers for me to risk getting killed on a motorcycle.