Looking for reloading data for 44 Mag for use in a carbine.

[mcb]

First up: My first post here. This seemed like a good place to get info on lever guns. Hope I am correct. Look forward to your advice.

I just got my second lever action, a Rossi M92 16" barrel chambered in 44 Mag. My first lever action is a Winchester 9410 (2.5 inch 410 shotgun) and I have a lot of fun with that (shot)gun but I finally have a chance to hunt deer with a rifle and so I got myself the Rossi. I live here in Ohio where we are required to use shotguns with slugs or muzzleloaders but this year I will be hunting deer in Tennessee. I have several center-fire rifles I could use but I will be hunting some steep and heavily wooded property and thought the M92 carbine would be just the tool for the job.

I got to shoot my M92 this weekend for the first time and really enjoyed it. Put about 50rds through it and it shoots really well. The action is pretty smooth and I suspect will get better with a little use. Empty cans at 25 yards off-hand was easy. Recoil was good with moderate loads and with heavy loads it was very manageable but not something I would want to shoot all day.

So I am getting setup to reload 44 Mag and I am hoping you can share some good loads for 44 Mag in a carbine or links to good sources of carbine specific 44 Mag data. Right now I am thinking either 225 or 240 grain HP bullet and maybe Hodgdon H110 as a starting point but if you guys know a better combination I am all ears.

Thanks in advance
mcb

[fordwannabe]

I shoot a marlin in 44 mag and you are on the right trail. I use 240 cast bullet and a medium to slightly stiff load of H110 and can hit a steel groundhog cutout 9 out of 10 with the peep sight and a fiber optic front sight at 100 yards...plenty for deer. Good luck and work up the load slowly stop at the first sign of pressure(that means the primers are backing out or the lever is sticky to extract). Tom

[AJMD429]

I usually just hunt with Winchester factory loads 240 grain JSP's, and they punch through-and-through for a quick downing of your deer. Accurate enough that if the gun is scoped it will do 2-4" at 100 yards off sandbags, but I keep a Williams FP on it for use afield.

You can duplicate that load with 2400 powder, or probably many others, but the loading manuals vary all over the place - some list 'starting' loads that are higher than other's 'do not exceed' loads, partly depending on how old the manuals are.

As far as a different load specifically for 'carbine' vs 'handgun' use, it rarely seems to make a difference that I can see. There is probably enougn variability from carbine to carbine that your individual load-tuning will do more than picking a load just recommended by someone as better for carbine than handgun.

A non-fragile bullet is best for hunting, whether lead or jacketed. Some of the rifles are 'generous' in bore dimension, so like cast bullets to be a bit over the 'normal' size.

Some say the longer bullets won't stabilize in the carbines unless they have 1:20 rifling (like my Ruger 96/44 ), but I read plenty of reports of guys using 265 or larger bullets that do just fine. Personally I've not seen a great need to go over 240 grains since that drops deer right on the spot.

By the way, two good sources [linked below] of reloading data I use on-line are:

• AmmoGuide.com and LoadData.com

Both require $19/year or so membership for data access, but are worth it, and give you far more data than just a couple reloading manuals would. It is STILL a good idea to get a couple reloading manuals for general information though (although much of what they offer is also on-line). Both the sites have 'commercial' data direct from manufacturers and also accept user data, so all the usual disclaimers apply - always be sure a couple different sources cite a load or very close to it, before using it, etc. You should really play around with the AmmoGuide site and all its selection/sorting/search tools. Highly recommended...!

[Ironwood]

I have a Winchester Model 94 in 44 mag. A 240 gr jacketed bullet with a stiff load of H110 works best for me.

[Blaine]

I used Blue Dot (comparable to 2400) and run a 300 grain cast at very moderate fps....Frankly, if you can hit it in the right spot with a .44 anything, you will make meat.

[Rusty]

Welcome to the forum!

In a carbine I'd stay away from the hollow points. They are usually intended to expand at handgun velocities. When you run them faster through a carbine you stand the chance of the bullet coming apart before you get sufficient penetration.

I like a 270 gr cast LBT in mine.

[mcb]

Thanks a bunch guys!

I do have several boxes of Sierra 300gr JSP bullets but I was afraid that they might not stabilize in the Rossi M92. It seem that the M92 has a 1:30 twist and the 300gr bullet might need a faster twist. Anyone have any experience with 300 gr bullet in a Rossi?

[EdinCT]

I have used the Speer 240 gr soft point over 24 gr of 296 or H110 with good results in my Marlin 44.I haven't used Hollow points in anything other than coyotes and the 240gr XTP seemed to exit about the same size has the soft points.
I don't have a Rossi but I believe a 1/30 twist would drive the 300gr bullet ok if you keep the velocity up. The marlin has a 1/38 and some do ok with that.

[Griff]

and Welcome to THE Forum. If you look on the Hodgdon Reloading Cartridge Loads website, you can select "Rifle" as the load type, and they list the 44 Magnum as a rifle cartridge. While the max loads are the same, they show a significant increase in the expected velocity produced.

For example, with 31.5 grains of H110 and a 180 gr. Hornady XTP, they show 1896fps for the revovler and 2286fps for the rifle.

[AJMD429]

For example, with 31.5 grains of H110 and a 180 gr. Hornady XTP, they show 1896fps for the revovler and 2286fps for the rifle.

I know most don't consider the .44 Mag a 'varmint' cartridge per se, but those 180 grainers out past Mach-2 do a number on whatever you don't need to salvage meat or pelt off of...

[JerryB]

WELCOME to the best gun forum on the web.

[Old Ironsights]

Howdy & welcome.

Just as a matter of personal ethics, I won't load a handgun cartridge for my carbine that a handgun won't handle at least a cylinder of.

You can load a carbine way beyond what a handgun will take, and I'd hate for one of my "heavy" loads to blow up in someone's hands.

IMO, find the heaviest safe handgun load that is most accurate in your carbine, and stick with that.

That's what I do with my .357(s)... and it's no slouch. A 190gr (bullet, check & lube) bullet at a safe pressure will do 1800+ out of my 20" carbine and 1200 out of my 2.5" SP101 - and it won't blow up either gun, and won't (immediately) damage a S&W (it WILL eventually loosen one up though...)

I wouldn't want to load up some loads safe for MY gun(s) that blow up someone else's if I ever am not in control of where they go...

Just sayin'...

[mcb]

I agree Old Ironsights. I have no intention of loading super hot loads for my carbine. I just was looking for safe loads that work best in carbines. At present I don't have a 44 mag handgun but some of these loads I will be reloading will get used by my brother in his Taurus and Encore 44 Mag handguns. I am just looking for loads that might work a little better in the carbine if that exists.

So at present my first loads are likely going to be using H110 and a couple different bullet weights to see what my gun likes best. I will change powder if needed later.

With regards to H-110 I keep reading conflicting information on the web with regards to primers. One time I read Magnum primers are require and then another site I read that Magnum primers are not needed. What do you guys think?

mcb

[earlmck]

One time I read Magnum primers are require and then another site I read that Magnum primers are not needed. What do you guys think?

I found (to my dismay) that H110 is capable of surviving (but not igniting) the fire from a standard small pistol primer that drives the bullet an inch or two down the barrel. A couple of those experiences (I'm a slow learner) and I don't use H110 in any load without a magnum push behind it. It may be OK with the standard large pistol, but I'm not going to be the fellow determining that. I vote "magnum".

And welcome to the forum!

[mikld]

I have a Puma '92 in .44 Magnum. I haven't had the opportunity to hunt with it but do hunt/shoot a bunch of paper plates. I haven't tried the 300 grainers and the heaviest I shot is 265 gr. Ranch Dog RNFP. Excellent, accurate bullet. I like to play with different powders but I stayed away from H110/W296 'cause the load window seems pretty small. I have a favorite load of Blue Dot around 16-17 or so grains. Don't have a chrony so I don't know how fast it's going, and lately I've stuffed some with Trail Boss. And like Ironsides, I don't load anything for my Puma that can't be safely shot in my Ruger SBH, S&W 629, Dan Wesson 44H, or Contender.

BTW; it would be a good idea to slug the barrel of your Rossi because some of their barrels were/are a bit large (mine slugs .432"-433" depending on the slug).

[centershot]

mcb, there's a lot of good advice posted above, and if you stick to 296, H-110 or 2400 for full power loads you won't go wrong. But, remember that PRESSURE is PRESSURE, BE SAFE! Just because you're shooting a rifle doesn't mean you can ignore the max loads listed in the literature, and as Doc mentioned above, the data varies all over the place!

Having said that, I can tell you that I run a 240 gr JHP (XTP) over 24.0 gr of 296 with a mag primer just as Winchester lists it in their data. This is my hunting load. Pay attention to the cautions about reducing the powder charge of H-110 and 296 (same powder), they're put there for your safety!
For everyday use I load a 250 gr cast bullet over 12.0 gr of Blue Dot, runs around 1250 fps from the carbine, easy to shoot, groups well.

I think of my guns the same way I think of my cars; It's nice to know that the capability is there to go "all out", but 99.9% of the time I don't need to use it.

Have fun & be safe!

[bigbore442001]

For example, with 31.5 grains of H110 and a 180 gr. Hornady XTP, they show 1896fps for the revovler and 2286fps for the rifle.

I know most don't consider the .44 Mag a 'varmint' cartridge per se, but those 180 grainers out past Mach-2 do a number on whatever you don't need to salvage meat or pelt off of...

That sounds like a good varmint damage control round. Say for something like shooting spring and summer coyotes for the purpose of giving newborn fawns a fighting chance.

[JohndeFresno]

...[all good stuff, but deleted for brevity]...
By the way, two good sources [linked below] of reloading data I use on-line are:

• AmmoGuide.com and LoadData.com

Both require $19/year or so membership for data access, but are worth it, and give you far more data than just a couple reloading manuals would. It is STILL a good idea to get a couple reloading manuals for general information though (although much of what they offer is also on-line). Both the sites have 'commercial' data direct from manufacturers and also accept user data, so all the usual disclaimers apply - always be sure a couple different sources cite a load or very close to it, before using it, etc. You should really play around with the AmmoGuide site and all its selection/sorting/search tools. Highly recommended...!

A big +1 - always check even LoadData and AmmoGuide against other sources.

And the reverse is true; I have found errors in "Cartridges of the World," Lee's book, and in the Hornady manual that I have written back to the authors about - errors that were not addressed in their subsquent "errata" corrections to the consumer. Even a COAL (overall cartridge length) error can be dangerous when using max or near max loads because of pressure considerations - as was the case with the Hornady book.

Having said that, there is absolutely no doubt in my ex-military mind that you have found the best source of levergun information here, along with various and sundry other subjects. As you visit us you will eventually discover that many (maybe most) of the frequent contributors are gun writers, lawmen, noted pistoleros and riflemen, hunters, gunsmiths, guides, instructors, experts in various fields, or "ex-" in all of the above and still quite knowledgeable. Then there are photographers, inventors, authors of other subjects, engineers, some medical men, and men of the cloth - the list is almost endless.

Along the same lines, you will find very few blowhards or rude types here - they don't have to puff up like a chirping toad because they are comfortable in their knowledge and experience.

This is my absolute favorite site and information source anywhere on the 'net. With my limited free time, I try to check it daily.

Welcome to the fire!

[Ji in Hawaii]

I used the exact same load data for both rifle and revolver, no problem.
H110 my powder of choice for over 30 years. My usual choice of projectile is 240 grain JSPs (not JHPs) Sierra or Speer.

[COSteve]

Accurate Reloading Data for a PDF of their version 3.5 load data.
Alliant Reloading Data for a link to their on-line load data.
Hodgdon Reloading Data for a link to their load data (Hodgdon, IMR, and Winchester powders).
Ramshot Reloading Data for a PDF of their version 5.4 load data.

[bharada]

I just shoot paper with my Winchester 92 so I went with a 180gr Missouri Bullet #7 RNFP bullet over 11gr of Unique. It chronos right around 1600 fps and gives me sub-2" 5-shot groups at 50 yards.

[ollogger]

Ya picked the right place & Welcome
ollogger

[jackruff]

I used the exact same load data for both rifle and revolver, no problem.
H110 my powder of choice for over 30 years. My usual choice of projectile is 240 grain JSPs (not JHPs) Sierra or Speer.

Same here concerning the same load data for rifle and revolver. I have a Marlin 1894 and a CVA Scout. My revolver is a Ruger Super Blackhawk. I consider anything that is safe in one is safe in the other two. I prefer the Hornady 240 grain XTP over 2400.

[Old Time Hunter]

24.3 grains of H110 behind a Speer 240gr JSP works well in my '94 Trapper.

My cast load is 9.5 grains of Unique behind a Ranch Dog 265gr (weighs 270 w/gas check).

[JohndeFresno]

As far as using the same rifle/pistol load, I for one would be very circumspect with the heavier bullets in the 44 Magnum. I posted this information before, but honest concern for the safety of my fellow Levergunners prompts me to repeat this information. The OP talks about a 240 grain load, but a casual reader may assume that any load works for either the levergun or the handgun. I don't believe so.

I considered the same thing a while ago - a combo that would fire the same bullet, as with the old .44-40 round back before cowboys carried cell phones on horseback. But I was less than impressed with the versatility of .44 Mag heavy rounds for that purpose. My research indicated a very narrow range of variance allowed in loads for both the rifle and handgun.

Here I have created a spreadsheet with data copied directly from my Hornady (6th Edition) and Speer (#13) manuals for a 300 gr 44 Magnum load for pistol and rifle. The spreadsheet demonstrates that there is only an average of .9 grain leeway allowed in each load with the same 300 gr. round!

That is, because of the minimum and maximum limits of a pistol versus a rifle load, you either load too light or too heavy for either the pistol or the rifle unless your loads are within a range of .9 of a grain either way, on an average! I realize that the manuals are written conservatively; but then again I for one won't "hot dog" the loads too much.

See attached spreadsheets below:


Within the powder choices afforded above, you can see that AA#9 and 2400 have the best range for both tables.

The moral of this story - you might want to find a round that you like and run it through the manuals to see what the pistol and rifle loads allow, before purchasing a combo firearm set.

I have to say that the .45 Colt seems to have more leeway in this respect than the 44 Magnum, for what it is worth.