'94 Pattern Lever Porting?

[Panzercat]

Thanks for stopping by. Need your opinion. A few of you know I have this mossberg 464 in 30-30, and boy does it pack a wallop. It's light and short. When you pull the trigger it feels just shy of chunking shotty slugs down range. Obviously there's the option of a recoil pad to lessen the impact, but do you think porting or a muzzle brake would help for the rise? If you think there would be a benefit, which would be more ideal? What sort of costs are we looking at (assuming custom porting would be more atheistically pleasing and effective). Do I lose too much in velocity?

Yeah, full of questions. Thanks

[Malamute]

Persoanally, I'd prefer a pad over any sort of porting or muzzle widget. I dont care for the increased noise levels of porting or muzzle thingamajigs.

Shouldn't be any change in velocity.

[olyinaz]

Muzzle brakes work, no question. If you shoot with ear plugs on the noise isn't much of an issue I don't think, but be careful about brakes that port gasses down and in all directions - they can be a mess to shoot prone (dust clouds etc.). There are some brakes that port the gasses forward and while I doubt they are the best brakes going, they do reportedly work and they minimize noise and dont port any gasses down. However, I think a brake on a lever gun would look terrible! Still, they work.

My .30-30s kick more than I find comfortable, and I find that they kick more than some .30-06 rifles that I have, so it must have something to do with their light weight and the shape of their butts. I suggest a slip on shoulder pad (not a butt pad - it's a pad that you wear on you, not on the gun). I use one and it seems to work great.

Oly

[M. M. Wright]

Had a sporterized springfield 30-36 that had a Herter's muzzle brake on it. I wore ear plugs with it but the blast was just terrible. Really cut down on recoil and muzzle rise though. I seem to remember it torqued counter clock-wise too. Have never had another as that experience was enough. Now I had several ported 1911s back in my IPSC days and they really control muzzle rise but you still get that blast. All gone now.

[damienph]

You might want to try one of the "Mercury" recoil reducers. I shot an H&R Handi Rifle in 45-70 that had one installed in the butt stock. Really helped. I suspect that Midway USA, Brownell's and Graf & Sons all sell them.

I know many don't like it but porting your barrel does work. It will increase the noise, however.

[Hobie]

I have a completely different take on this.

In my experience I have shot quite a few guns. Some presented might impressive recoil at first blush but as time and shooting wore on they became quite mundane. Some aren't so and do require mitigation but I just can't put the "mighty" .30-30 in that group. Yes, the stock design does slightly accentuate felt recoil but it is hardly a killer. Only a person with a physical requirement for mitigation (such as some bone deformity, extreme sensitivity, or medical device like a pace-maker/defibrillator) should be concerned. Practice is the key here. I find that concentrating on the shot as opposed to the recoil will make the effects go away.

One extreme example for me, at one time, was the 5½ lb Contender carbine in .45-70. On my first shot it went vertical so quickly it literally took my breath away. However, after plinking at dirt clods through the better part of 2 boxes I was able to shoot it quite well off the bench. It doesn't really kick that badly, it is just different. The .30-30 in that same gun is just a gentle bounce...

So, to the point, I think porting is a waste of time, money and effort. I find ported guns to be obnoxiously loud as well. That bothers me much more than a tap on the shoulder or bit of shove against the cheek.

[Canuck Bob]

I got health problems that make stout recoil a no-no for me. However I couldn't retire my 444. Here is how I am handling it.

New pad, it comes with one but it is harder than a hockey puck now. The slip-ons are being considered for my Win 94 as I want some more LOP but its pre-64 and I don'y want to cut or drill the stock.

Add weight while maintaining the balance were I want it. If you can afford to add a pound that would tame it a bunch. I don't scope so I can add a bit and still be lighter than a similar scoped rifle. I think that is the secret behind the fancy mercury gizmos.

Keep handloads stout but sensible, 265 jacketed and 285 cast bullets max. The 30-30 has some interesting 150 and lighter hunting bullets, specially with the dreaded lead free options, suitable for deer and blackies.

Hobie has the best advice. I trained myself to enjoy a 375 H&H used for grizzly hunting years ago. Shoot a lot and handload some mid range and work up if it is real troublesome. The best advice we can give each other is practice, practice, and practice.

Edit: I wouldn't port a lever in 30-30.

[AJMD429]

I agree with Hobie.

If you really feel the need, a recoil-pad or additional weight added to the gun, can be a good 'fix' without permanently altering the firearm.

However, if I had a too-hard-kicker, whether due to the sheer ballistics of the weapon, or my personal health conditions, I'd seriously consider getting the muzzle threaded, and installing a suppressor. The same suppressor could be used for nearly ALL your guns, and you wouldn't be fundamentally altering the gun for any potential re-sale later. In fact, a properly threaded muzzle would enhance the value of any gun, whereas a 'ported' muzzle might detract from the value.

ALSO - consider different ammo. Sometimes a small difference in ammunition makes a big difference in perceived recoil.

[GoatGuy]

I side the "against-ers". Porting makes a really nice, moderately recoiling rifle a terrible annoying blaster. Especially to those sitting to the side of your bench at the range!!! Save the recoil reducing gadgets for the really heavy recoil of really hard kicking calibers. Only one I ever owned on a rifle was for the left hand .300 Weatherby custom rifle I had built for me back in the 1980's. Screwed the thing off every time I took the rifle afield for hunting. Still don't like wearing ear plugs when I'm seriously after big game.

[t.r.]

I had annoying muzzle jump with my Savage 99 in .308 that was fixed by Magna Port of Michigan. Their precision process did not even mar my bluing. Pricing is very reasonable.

TR

[Blaine]

My Guide Gun (45-70) came with ports. Even with plugs/muffs, it's too loud. At the range, other shooters cringe, and frown when it goes off. On the plus side, it still recoils really, really hard with the short barrel

[Antietamgw]

Stumbled on this thread during a search for George Herter's world famous muzzle brakes. Somebody hung one on a real nice 1917 Enfield barreled action I recently got. Got alot of hits - amazing how many of those ugly things are out there!

To the original poster might I suggest that you get A PAST Recoil Shield. It's a quick and cheap fix, for the shoulder anyway. A better solution, IMHO, is to start reloading. Likely the money spent on a brake installed would buy a basic reloading setup. Mild mid-range loads are very easy on the shoulder, get you some cheap practice, and, like Hobie stated, after some trigger time recoil likely won't be an issue with any load in this rifle for you. I installed a Kick-Eze pad on a friend's .300 Win Mag a month or so back, replacing the factory Ruger recoil pad. He has some shoulder/neck issues and felt that rifle hurt him, even though it already had a muzzle brake. He says that particular pad made a huge difference and bench time doesn't bother him now. He likes it better than the Decelerator pad I put on a .270, says it was more effective.

[Pisgah]

I know people are different, and some are more recoil-shy than others, or have limiting physical problems; but the .30-30, even in light carbines, is really very mild. If you disagree, here's the sensible cure -- borrow a REAL kicker, like a .416 Rem. or a 3.5" 12 ga. magnum slug gun, and go shooting. After that, the .30-30 will fade in to its rightful insignificance. I promise you, this works better than any pad or brake.

[t.r.]

A few years back, I sent my 99 Savage to MagaPort in Michigan. The muzzle jump in this .308 rifle was really bothering my marksmanship. $130. later, I rec'd my finished rifle. It has four ports but the blueing was not marred at all.

No more muzzle jump!

TR

[AJMD429]

Personally, I'd prefer a pad over any sort of porting or muzzle widget. I dont care for the increased noise levels of porting or muzzle thingamajigs.

If you got it set up with a suppressor, it would vastly decrease the recoil, AND the noise, as well as enhancing accuracy.

My favorite .22 LR levergun is integrally suppressed, so there's no 'can' to thread on the barrel, and it is quieter than a 'bb' gun. I plan to do the same with a .44 Mag levergun soon, and there's no reason you couldn't do so with a .30-30 one (well, other than the cost ).

Note that with supersonic ammo, there IS still a 'noise', but recoil is basically ZERO.

[tman]

Porting is ok on a target gun, not good for defense or hunting. I shot a doe with a 44 mag ported handgun and immediately sold it. The blast without plugs is PAINFULL

[Pete44ru]

Thanks for stopping by. Need your opinion. A few of you know I have this mossberg 464 in 30-30, and boy does it pack a wallop. It's light and short. When you pull the trigger it feels just shy of chunking shotty slugs down range. Obviously there's the option of a recoil pad to lessen the impact, but do you think porting or a muzzle brake would help for the rise? If you think there would be a benefit, which would be more ideal? What sort of costs are we looking at (assuming custom porting would be more atheistically pleasing and effective). Do I lose too much in velocity?

Yeah, full of questions. Thanks

Well............ Different strokes, for different folks, and everybody's different.

I've owned/shot/hunted with three factory ported leverguns (besides a multitude of unported) - an 1895 Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun, a .444 Winchester BB94 Timber Carbine, and a .450 Winchester Timber - and can offer my experiences.

All three had virtually invisible, internal "Magna-Port" style porting holes in the top of the barrels on each side of the front sights, instead of some add-on muzzle brake.
All the holes directed shooting gasses "up" & slightly "back", which resulted in a dramatic reduction in muzzle rise and FELT (as opposed to actual) recoil at the shooter's end.

I shot all three ported rifles with the factory issue 1/2" (?) rubber BP (Winchesters) or the factory issue 3/4" pad (Marlin). These lightweight big bore hunting rifles all weighed about 6 to 6-1/2 pounds with peep sights.

When shooting at game, such as deer, etc, I never noticed any extra-ordinarily loud noise, most likely due to the natural excitement of the activity - when zeroing the ported rifles, I always used hearing protection, just like I do with every other rifle I shoot repeatedly and/or at targets, reducing any extra noise to nothing.

At a range, IMHO nearby shooters should also be wearing proper ear protection, or they shouldn't be there - so whether or not a ported rifle makes a loud noise seems immaterial.

IIRC, The company that performs the Magna-Porting on customer's rifles charges about $125 for the EDM process (but I may be in error on their current pricing).


.

[piller]

My Guide Gun did not come with factory porting, and still does not have it. A Limbsaver recoil pad is all it needed to turn bench shooting from quite a shove to just a shove. It wasn't painful at first, but the distance it pushed me back was uncomfortable. The recoil pad changed the felt recoil to the point that 50 rounds off the bench does not leave a sore shoulder. I have fired only a thousand or so 30-30 rounds, and it did not seem bad out of a Marlin 336. There are a bunch of good recoil pads available, and they are a great place to start. The slip on ones do add a little to the length of the stock, and that may be a concern. Finally, you might want to get a good gunsmith to check you with the rifle and see if the length of the stock fits you. If it is either too short or too long it will give way more perceived recoil that if it is well fitted.

[jh45gun]

Interesting I always felt the 30/30 in a lever gun was a mild recoil proposition.

[mikld]

I own a Puma '92 in .44 Magnum that would draw blood with stout reloads (I have a plate in my shoulder/collar bone with no muscle over it, just skin. Puma has a hard butt plate w/no padding.). I needed recoil reduction so to keep with the "period" look I got a leather lace on butt sleeve/pad. It had no padding so I cut up an old mouse pad and put 3 layers inside the pad and now it woeks as good as it looks. Works for me shooting Ranch Dog 265s over heavy loads of 2400
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx? ... 4&CAT=4018

[Retro]

Depends on what you want to do.

If you're going to shoot lots off the bench, porting is extremely antisocial, you'll have the guys two three benches either side of you using inappropriate language in your direction.

If you're going to be hunting, then it's one shot, you can handle that I'm sure

So my vote is against porting.

Then again, I mostly wear a leather jacket anywhere I go, that provides some cushioning... hunting, it's a padded camo with a thick shirt underneath (it gets cold in the Karoo) so same thing.