Red Dot/Reflex sights on a Marlin

[mergus]

Hello Guys.....I didn't want to hijack the Scope on a Marlin thread, but I do have a similar question. I want to get a Model 1894 Marlin in .44 magnum to go along with my 1894CL and my 1895. Both of the Marlins I have now I have put 4x scopes on due to vision issues where I just can't see open sights any more. On the rifle I want to buy, I want to try mounting a red dot or reflex sight, and I have 2 related problems, 1) I've never handled or fired a gun with one of these sights on it and 2) I figured I'd like to read up on it prior to spending money and don't know of any web sites or forums where one can learn about these sights.

Any suggestions on where to read up on these things, and any suggestions on what to buy and what to avoid?

Thanks,
Mergus

[jeepnik]

I've had a holo/reflex sight on my GS for years. It's a C-More brand. It has held up well to recoil from everything from BP loads to Garrett and Buffalo Bore stuff. It's withstood rain and desert heat without any issues. It's even survive me, which is saying something.

[rimrock]

A Burris Fastfire might be one to consider.

[AJMD429]

Here's a couple links relating to my experiences with holosighting a Marlin 1894, and I was fortunate enough to have regular round 'dot' type sights (like you get at WalMart), a Bushnell Holosight, a Burris Fastfire-II holosight, and a TruGlo open-style holosight to fiddle with.

• http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=28788

(Short version - get the Burris Fastfire-II )

Here's the writeup of the final version...

• http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=23531

And here's another version I made using a Rossi...

• http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=31062

Hope the above threads are helpful...!

Now, since my initial Marlin project involved the bigger holosights (Bushnell and TruGlo), plus the 'little' pistol-laser, I used a 'scout' mount, but if you're just using a Burris Fastfire-II, it could literally mount on one short section of a two-piece mount on either fore or aft scope-holes.

I thought about a 'back-up' sight, but I don't tote in remote areas (and if I did, I'd have a backup handgun most likely), and although I left the front sight in place, and have experimented with Williams WGRS and FP rear sights in place along with the Fastfire-II.

[Blaine]

I had a Burris Speed Dot on a 629, and and a 45-70 BFR. Very satisfied. I'd put one on an 1895 with no issues whatsoever. Unlike most scopes, except scout scopes, you can keep both eyes open with the red dot, and IMO that helps my shooting/depth perception.

[jhrosier]

I have two Burris Speeddot 135s, one on a handgun and the other on my AR.
I also have vision problems and have found the burris speeddot presents a nice round aiming point with no flaring.
The Burris sight is much less expensive than many of the other red dots and the optics are first-rate.

Jack

[MrMurphy]

I'd recommend the Trijicon RMR, which is a Burris on steroids, far tougher to rough handling.

XS makes a Scout mount if you go bigger, i'd recommend an Aimpoint H-1 in that case.

Treat the dot like your front sight, except there's nothing to line up.

See target, dot on target, bang.

[Paladin]

I have used a Zeiss red dot on my .44 Mag Marlin for years and like it. Makes it a lot faster for plinking and hunting. The sight has stood up to abuse as I had it on my MP-5 or M16 in Afghanistan.

[Blaine]

Paldin, that's a badazz looking thumper...

[FWiedner]

Not a Marlin, but here's what I did with my Model 94.

NC Star green-dot holo sight on scout rail with XS back-up sights.



Works and works well.

[AJMD429]

Don't forget if you're after speed, durability, and increased ability to focus vs. regular sights, it's only going to cost you $15.99 to try a Marbles Bullseye sight, which is just a slip-in replacement for the factory rear sight mounted on the barrel. They look like they stick out too much, but in reality are just what you'd get if you have a 'full buckhorn' and reamed out the center so you could put a ghost ring in it. There is NO blocking out of stuff behind the leaf like a regular sight, either (which is why I like the red-dots and holos).


http://www.midwayusa.com/product/317428 ... eight-blue

[jeepnik]

AJMD, that's an interesting rear sight. I put an XO ghost ring on the GS, but I'm still using the original on a Model 39. I wonder if it will fit the 39's dovetail?

[Blaine]

Not a Marlin, but here's what I did with my Model 94.

NC Star green-dot holo sight on scout rail with XS back-up sights.



Works and works well.

Is the rail secured only in the dovetail? Ever have that sight out in the rain all day?

[mergus]

Guys, thanks much for all the suggestions. I will be reading all the links in the threads...One follow up question though, are the terms, red dot, reflex, holo all interchangable? Do scopes labeled each work the same way?

Mergus

[deafrn]

I believe that red dot and reflex sights refer to the same thing although they can be configured differently (an UltraDot Matchdot using a closed tube doesn't look much like a Burris FastFire which is an "open" configuration, but both are red dot/reflex sights): an LED is projected onto the objective lens and back towards the shooter, creating the "dot." A holographic sight uses an actual laser to illuminate a hologram inside the sight, and that is why a true holographic sight is generally larger, more expensive and takes more energy to power (but it is actually "parallax free," which red dots/reflex sights technically are not... though some come closer to it than others). There are also Armson OEG and I believe a few other sights that are different critters altogether, but I have never had a chance to try them.

(Speaking of chances, has anyone here ever actually used a shotgun equipped with the old "Nydar" sight?)

There is some decent real world info on this topic in the optics forums at places like m4carbine.net, but much of it will pertain more to the practical military/police side of things. At this house, we tend towards a 30mm UltraDot of some flavor as our standard red dot sight that can work on nearly anything in a pinch, but I have also come to really like the Aimpoint Micro series. I haven't gotten my beater 1894CSS/Burris FastFire III combination (the FastFire chosen more for its size than its optical capabilities) finished up, but it'll be interesting for me to see how the newest FastFire model compares to the others.

If I had to use an optic to make really fast hits on close targets that shoot back, I'd probably opt for a holographic sight, but it is hard to justify one at my stage of life.

[MrMurphy]

'Red dot' is about like saying levergun.

It's a category. No magnification, fast movers for use when you need both eyes open.

Reflex is actually a model (Trijicon), and one of the early ones. It's reliable but has issues with washing out in dark/light conditions. A 'reflex' sight is still basically a red dot, but often not battery powered.

EoTech's Holosights (again, a brand) are usually simply called Eotechs and the model. They call it a holosight. It does work with the window broken, filled w/mud, etc, but in my and many others experience, they are highly unreliable, or completely reliable (yes, you read that right). Some work, and keep working for years, the others die randomly and w/o warning, including in the middle of firefights, etc....... they have short battery life.

Aimpoints are the world standard, there's a million or two in use by the military. They run literally for years. (80,000 hours turned on continously on the newer ones).

I've used them on duty, as well as sold all of the above working for a manufacturer. The 'mini red dots' (MRD as they are sometimes referred to) are the Optima, Burris Fastfire/Speedbead (same thing, different mount), and the Trijicon RMR series, which all look the same. Effectively, the Optima got improved into the Fastfire which is now on it's third generation and the RMR improved over both when it comes to battery life, features and ruggedness.

To put it in gun turns, think of it as a stock 1917-produced Colt 1911, a mid 60s customized Government Model, and a Wilson Combat CQB. They look the same, but the details do matter.

For a levergun, the mini dots can be effective, but the small window will make it hard to get a fast shot for some if they're not used to snapping to an exact cheekweld every time. Just like having to line up irons.

If you're familiar with the rifle and you mount it identically every time, they're faster than anything, using both eyes open. Easier to see in the dark/low light as well.

While they're primarily used in the military now they were actually invented for hunting, due to the way they hunt in Sweden/Norway, where dogs chase game through the woods past stands, where you might only get a split second for a shot.......all season. They do work. But not all red dots/reflexes are the same, and you get what you pay for.

For a non 'hard use' gun (bear gun, serious hunting piece, or defensive rifle) Primary Arms sells Chinese made Aimpoint clones. They'll hold up to a lot of range shooting and light hunting, and they make a near exact Aimpoint Micro (H-1/T-1) clone for about 1/3 the price.

If you're still unsure if they're for you, that'd be my advice.

[FWiedner]

Not a Marlin, but here's what I did with my Model 94.

NC Star green-dot holo sight on scout rail with XS back-up sights.

Works and works well.

Is the rail secured only in the dovetail? Ever have that sight out in the rain all day?

The rail is secured with 2 screws in the receiver and 1 larger screw in the dovetail.

The thing has a protective cover that I attach with a small leather lanyard and I knock it off with my thumb before I aim and shoot so it's not really exposed to weather all the time, but I've gotten it wet in the rain, and even dropped it in the mud one time, and it seemed to function OK after a little wipe down.

Even if it did go out on me, all I've got to do is remove it using the little thumb-wheel and the ghost-ring is sighted in and ready to go.

[AJMD429]

AJMD, that's an interesting rear sight. I put an XO ghost ring on the GS, but I'm still using the original on a Model 39. I wonder if it will fit the 39's dovetail?

They fit any 'American' one I think, but some of the Rossi's seem to have 'European' ones slightly wider so a shim (thin slice of aluminum can) under them is needed to raise them enough to be snug. Either way, easy to install, and no big expense to try.

[mergus]

Guys, thanks again for all the info on these scopes. I'm much further down the learning trail than I was....

Mergus