Ideas for my butchered Winchester 1886

[FRA]

A friend gave me his 1886 a year or two ago. He bought it from the owner of the Pony Express Gun Shop in Southern CA, who had converted it from .38-56 to .45-70 because of the poor bore, hack-sawed the barrel and magazine tube, put on a graduated express leaf sight in a shoddy new dovetail, and filled all of the old dovetails with lead. I'm looking to eventually have it restored or refinished, but I don't know that I want to take it back to .38-56 since it is difficult to reload for, from what I have read, and I have a beautiful express sight that never came on the .38-56 models. Since mine doesn't appear to have shipped as anything special, I don't figure I need to worry about sticking to how it lettered. I wouldn't mind a shotgun butt, half octagon/half round barrel with a short magazine tube since I would like to carry and use this rifle hunting. I know it is somewhat sacrilegious to deviate from the historical letters, but I have no use for a 26" octagon barreled behemoth. I'm open to any and all recommendations. I have always admired Hunter Restorations' work, but maybe will be in a position to do this project all at once after another deployment. Thanks.

From Ms. Miller at the BBHC:
Serial number applied on 4-2-1898
Date In: 4-12-1898
Type: rifle
Caliber: 38/56
Barrel Shape: octagon
Trigger: plain
Date Shipped: 4-1-1899
Order Number: 25465

Is it normal to find one that sat for almost a year before shipping?

[Mike Hunter]

Since your rifle has already been modified; barrel rebored, magazine chopped, it’s pretty low on the collectability scale. Clearly changing the barrel to ½ round, and shortening the mag tube will not affect anything at this point. If you want a shotgun butt, I recommend having a new one made, and put the original in the closet, that way it can be replaced if needed.
Just don’t make any modifications to the frame and you should be good

V/R

Mike

[Pete44ru]

FWIW, since some present factory records are less than perfect, and they surely were over 110 years ago - consider also that some simply never got entered in their proper "spot" in the ledgers, or at all.

Putting the minor blotches aside for a moment, if the rifle in it's present weight, config & chambering are agreeable to you, in your plans & use for it - then I would either use it as it is, or do (or have done) a mild restoration/refinish.

I like that folding leaf express sight - I think it looks "just right", and hope the rifle can be zeroed with one or more of the leafs.
I WOULD replace the front sight, though.

BTW - Mike Hunter is one of the better 1886 restorers on the top side of the grass, and would recommend you consult with him if you decide to procede with any changes.


IMHO, the rifle has a lot of character, as opposed to a plain-vanilla modern replica.



.

[FLINT]

Putting the minor blotches aside for a moment, if the rifle in it's present weight, config & chambering are agreeable to you, in your plans & use for it - then I would either use it as it is, or do (or have done) a mild restoration/refinish.
.

+1

I agree with the above. I'd maybe clean it up a bit and tidy up some of the things that you don't think were done well, but leave it how it is for the most part. I wouldn't monkey around with changing stocks and barrels and such. Looks pretty darn sweet to me.

[Tycer]

I'd put a Nickle steel barrel on it so I could shoot modern loads. If you like the shotgun butt go for it. I like the half octagon look and would keep the mag tube long enough to carry five.

[Mescalero]

What Tycer said.

[Hobie]

I'd put a Nickle steel barrel on it so I could shoot modern loads. If you like the shotgun butt go for it. I like the half octagon look and would keep the mag tube long enough to carry five.

dittos

[Old Savage]

That will surely be on the banned list - no way Diane will overlook that - looks dangerous - welcome!

Interesting looking rifle.

[M. M. Wright]

I have a Browning 86 that has been modified to just about replicate yours. Mag holds 4 and 1 up the spout. 18.5 in barrel shortened from the original 26. Someone just chopped the crescent butt off and put on a filler piece and a recoil pad. They also added a receiver sight and I really like it.

As to yours; I like your ideas especially for the shotgun butt and I like half-round barrels too. I see no reason to try to keep it "as is" since it's already been chopped up. The lead filled dovetails are enough to make me re-barrel it and you could then use your express sight and put a german silver front on it. You know, like it probably came with although I prefer a Sourdough. Mike Hunter has already chimed in so if you're gonna do it you've got the right man. Case the receiver, fore-end cap, lever, hammer and butt-plate and I feel sure you will like it.

Go for it!

[3855]

For Winchester 1897's, factory data is only available up to serial number 379,999. Data for serial numbers higher than that was lost in a fire at the Winchester plant.

Don't believe everything you read or hear. The 38-56 is not difficult to load for. I have formed piles of brass for them from 45-70 cases by simply just running them into a 38-56 sizing die available inexpensively from LEE. The remainder of the reloading process is the same as any other cartridge. Jacketed bullets are available from Barnes. Cast bullets are available from many sources.

As for the express sight, Winchester supplied to them on special order to anything you wanted to put them on. Express sights came as special order on many 86's in a variety of calibers including 38-56's. Special order sights are not commonly listed in factory records but can be.

As for sitting in the warehouse for a year after manufacture, that was not a rare event. Firearms stayed in the warehouse until an order came in for one matching the configuration. This usually was in a relatively short period of time and many times the same day on special order guns. I know of several guns that were in the warehouse for 4 years or more before being shipped.

[pwl44m]

Welcome to the Forum FRA !!
What They said - and good on Ur first post. Pics,looks good to Me.
Perry

[smokenrust]

That chopping of the stock, why don't you advertise (such as here or gunbroker) the wood and and put new on instead? somebody might want an origional crescent stock or stock and forearm...

[RIHMFIRE]

I would get a half oct tapered bbl with 2/3 mag tube to shoot modern 45-70 loads
I dont like the button mag look....
Get original Lyman front sight.
Reuse the flip up 2-blade rear sight and get an original Lyman folding tang sight.
I would order a fancy grade wood....shotgun butt....and forearm...and checker...
Get the correct original hard rubber buttplate.
Case color the reciever, hammer, lever, loading gate, etc....
but not the real dark or pronounced case color finish like Turnballs...

and then go hunting!

sounds like a fun project....

oh yeah...welcome to the forum...

[1894c]

FRA... WELCOME... :)

[FRA]

Thanks all for the welcome and suggestions. Here is another picture of the butchered barrel; the new dovetail with the leaf sight is actually crooked, to top things off. I need to look at the stock when I get home and see how the fit is with the crescent butt plate. If it can be salvaged, I may just keep it. I definitely won't cut on the buttstock. I would either replace it all together and sell off the original set or lightly refurbish what I have just to add some protection from drying out. I may even stick with .38-56 if it isn't too difficult to reload for, as has been recommended. I do really want to go with a half octagon, lighter-weight profile barrel with something like a 2/3 magazine tube. Are there any good sources of new nickle steel barrels as described? I've come across Green Mountain barrels, but nothing else that is new for the 1886, especially in .38-56.

[Griff]

and Welcome to THE Forum. Great 1st post, (& 2nd)! With pictures, no less!

Love the project. So many possible avenues! A +1 to Mike Hunter Restorations also! Hurry up and get your project started... cause when I win the Lotto, he's going to be a VERY busy man! Only because I'm lazy, and have so many projects started...

[FRA]

Unfortunately, the lotto I'm waiting on is my next tour in Afghanistan! I'll do it sooner if I can, though.

[Griff]

Unfortunately, the lotto I'm waiting on is my next tour in Afghanistan! I'll do it sooner if I can, though.

Thank you for your service.

[Mike Hunter]

FRA

Who are you with? USA, USMC or USAF?

as to 38-56, lots of sources, Green Mountain, McGowen, and I make them too.

When you get ready drop me a line and we can discuss options.

V/R

Mike Hunter

[RIHMFIRE]

Unfortunately, the lotto I'm waiting on is my next tour in Afghanistan! I'll do it sooner if I can, though.

Thank you for your service.

+10 thanks

[Idiot]

I looks like a great beater/shooter rifle. If it shoots standard 45/70 Govt (green and yellow box Remington ammo for example) to point of aim I'd leave it alone and use it. There is nothing in North America that can stand after being hit right with a standard 45/70 slug and if that rifle can deliver it where its pointed, you've got a great hunting rifle. Don't wring you hands over it, don't spend money on it, shoot it.