Fire forming and other Qs

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:55 pm

Resized some 30/30 brass today I had mishaped in a poorly set up die.
I used 41/2grn of 231 and a 116grn lead bullet.
My question is why was some cases splitting the neck at the shoulder junction? To fast a powder may be???
Next question, I have been reloading some 12g 1oz fiber loads with green dot. Most of the case is full of wading. Is there any other powder that is alot more bulky to aid in cutting down the wadding?
Thanks Nath.

1886 · Post by **1886** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:15 pm

Is this an improved .30-30 chamber? If so it maybe best to avoid headspacing off the rim. Use a starting charge of a recognized .30-30 powder and seat the projectile long enough to firmly engage the rifling and still allow closing the action with some resistance. Let it rip. The bullet will support the shoulder and your pretty, new cases will show that cool 40 degree shoulder. This is the method that I have used for several wildcats with great success. A google search of P.O. Ackley may shed some interesting reading. 1886.

oldgerboy · Post by **oldgerboy** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:28 pm

Nath, when you "mishaped" the case, did you happen to roll the neck/shoulder down into the case? 1886 is right with what he said about an inproved chamber like a .30-30 Ackley. But, if you compacted the case it put a pretty good strain on the brass and the un-compacting might have strained the brass too far.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:47 pm

Without seeing the cases its hard to say, but sounds to me like they're splitting because of the screw up with the size die. 30-30 shoulders and necks are not the toughest brass you'll ever encounter.
If you are fireforming 30-30 ai cases, it works well in my rifle to just load fresh cases to full 30-30 loads, just prime charge and seat the bullet. Or simply fire factory loads.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:57 pm

No guys it not Ackley. The die was grabbing the neck on withdrawall and rounding the shoulder very slightly. I used the squib load to uniform the shape again. It is prob the reason why some have split though.

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:53 am

Hi Nath, do I understand you correctly? Are you still loading shotshells with fiber wads? Just use a proper length plastic cup wad. Easier on the bore and much better pattern.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:31 am

Nath,
I wonder if you "creased" the shoulder when the neck portion of the sizer grabbed the case on the way up into the die, then the expander only partially pulled it back. This will cause a weak spot, where splits and separations will occur.

2ndly, if you're using Winchester 231, I think you've selected WAY too fast a powder. From the Reload Bench chart, Winchester 231 is listed @ #19, right between:

18. Hodgdon HP-38
19. Winchester 231
20. Alliant Unique

Oops, that's been updated, I'd better update my file too; now listed @ #26, (which is still between the above two, they've just added some more powders).

25. 453 (Scot)
26. 231 (Winchester)
27. Zip (Ramshot)

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:59 am

With all due respect, what am I missing? Resize, load and shoot. If you suspect a problem, trash the brass and start over. You might have overworked it (I am not certain I understand EXACTLY what happened even though I've been following along), so anneal it.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:37 pm

This is the third attempt after repeated crashes

Hobie, I had to develope a better load than the one I was using and also I was not happy with my sizing die. Some of the 30 wcf brass would get pinched between the die and the expander ball and it would be very difficult to extract them even to the point that some would resemble a beer bottle. I have now corrected this and pulled the old load (on New brass) to reload with my new improved load however I chose to fireform this brass with a lead bullet and a pinch of W231 first. Some of them split at the neck/shoulder junction most probs due to the misshaped brass and W231 being to fast.
I then asked a second question to do with reloading 12g. I have a stack of fiber wads and 71/2 shot so bought some green dot but loading 1oz the case is full of wads so to speak and I was wondering if anyone knew of a more bulky powder to cut down on wadding use. My Pyro loads are perfect space wise but this modern stuff does not take up much space

Nath.

wm · Post by wm » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:45 pm

Trail boss? Black powder? They are as bulky as they get.

I don't the laws over there or the difficulty you have getting brass but 30 WCF is awfully plentiful here. If it would help I'd be happy to send you over 100 once fired cases from my stash.

Just let me know.

Wm

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:58 pm

Cheers wm brass is plentyfull over here.
Can trail boss be used in 12g?
Nath.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:02 pm

Im my MEC reloader, I normally use a #43 bushing for BP when using "by volume" loads. The closest to that size would be using Winchester Super Field powder, a #32 bushing will throw 23 grains for about 1200fps with 1-1/8 oz of lead shot. BUT... and it's a big "but", you must consider the weight of the wads you'll be loading between the shot and powder as compared to the the plastic that load calls for.

I'd humbly suggest that you keep those fiber wads for you BP or sub loads, and get some plastic for the smokeless. Might mean you have a lifetime supply of fiber wads... but... better safe than sorry.

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:09 pm

Dude,

Why not use a pwder that nearly fills the case such as, say, oh I don't know...

Maybe the most popular powder for the .30-30 EVER?

IMR3031.

You can reduce the loads if you want, but I like a charge of 29.0gr -nearly fills the case and performs beautifully.

Nice accuracy, a standard load velocity and meat on the table.

Why are you using 231?