New Mossberg Rifle Coming Out

[Mac in Mo]

I saw today that Mossberg will be releasing their MVP in a patrol rifle, with a 16" barrel in 300 AACBlackout. I understand this is the same basic rifle as the 4x4 that received good reviews. Looks like pretty neat little rifle. I bet it would make a great truck gun.
The Blackout round seems to be getting pretty popular. I do find it ironic that it is very similar to the good old .30/30, which is so ineffective for anything, as we all know.


Kevin

[AJMD429]

I'd love to rebarrel my Mini-14 in the .300 Blackout chambering.

[sore shoulder]

To clarify, it's not similar to the 30-30 in any respect other than caliber, it's barely similar to a 7.62x39, and only under certain conditions such as factory russian ammo from a 16" barrel. Handload a 7.62x39 from an 18-20" barrel and it will run away from the .300. I would much rather see one of those in the x39, but for obvious reasons that won't happen.

The reason for the .300 popularity over 6.5, 6.8 and 7.62x39 in an AR15 platform is it requires the least amount of changes to the rifle (barrel only), does not weaken the bolt locking assembly, does not require special mags, keeps same round count, and is very, very effective out of the shorter (7-8") barrels. That being said, the reason it is so effective from short barrels is it really belongs in the category of a hot pistol round. Look at the case capacity and powders used. Lil Gun being one of the powders I noticed. I've been following this cartridge pretty much since it's release a couple years ago and I've yet to see anyone shooting it from anything longer than 16" or to see any data for a longer barrel. I've seen the claim made that velocity will continue to climb from barrels longer than 16", but I haven't seen any proof, and I submit the powder burn will be over by 18" if not before.

Look at Accurates load data and decide for yourself if it's a 30-30.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-conten ... t_Data.pdf

Not saying I don't like the cartridge, but it's a wildcat fad. It's just a more successful wildcat fad than the 6.8 SPC. At least no one is running around saying it's going to replace the US mil round like they did with the 6.8. The only way the standard issue round for the US mil is going to change is if NATO changes. I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon. However from a logistics standpoint the .300 probably stands a better chance than any of the other wildcats thus far. IMO a 6mmx45 would be a more practical choice for the standard issue round.

Gee that was fun

[sore shoulder]

BTW Mac, wanted to thank you for bringing that particular rifle to my attention as I was unaware it existed. I'll be keeping my eye out for the .223 version although I'm sure those are getting snatched up as fast as they hit the rack.

[sore shoulder]

Also in doing some reading, Savage has declined to make a .300 BLK due to accuracy issues. Those issues involve the excessive amount of freebore in the .300 BLK chamber.

On another note, I wish Mossberg would build that rifle with a 1:8 twist. The heavier bullets in 75-77gr really make the .300 BLK irrelevant past 200M, which is where you're going with a scoped bolt action anyway.

[Mac in Mo]

SS,

You have obviously done your homework on this cartridge. I have only in the last few days even paid it any attention. In quickly scanning a few web sites I had thought that it was closer to the 7.62x39 than it really is. I saw a few references to it being the ".30/30" for the AR platform. It is definitely outclassed by the .30/30, I was sure of that even before I saw your responses. I think you hit the nail on the head when you described it as a "hot pistol round".

The MVP Patrol rifle that Mossberg is saying they will release, will come with iron sights. I would keep those instead of scoping it. It really seems like it would be a handy package for a truck gun that you wouldn't have to baby. The removable mags make it even handier.

I doubt I will run right out and buy one, but I do like the idea of it. The .223 version looks good as well.

Thanks for the info, SS.

Kevin

[nemhed]

I was briefly fascinated with the .300 Whisper/.300 AAC. The platform makes the most sense to me if used suppressed with subsonic loads. That would be a ton of fun but not MUST HAVE for me. If you're not going to pony up the extra coin and run it suppressed then other rounds make more sense. As far as the rifle itself, I wish it had been on the market when I bought my current .223 coyote rifle. AR mags in my bolt gun could be handy.

[AJMD429]

I agree it is really a niche cartridge for suppressed use. Decent enough otherwise, but best suppressed. Nice you don't have to change anything but the BARREL (not even the rest of the upper) to convert from .223 though.

I could see it as a good 'battle-weapon' though. Using saboted .223 bullets for more ordinary ballistics, and going to the .308 ones for subsonic use. (Just don't use the saboted ones in a suppressor...! ).

[MrMurphy]

If the US decided to change calibers, we would, and NATO would not come into play in the decision much.


We forced 7.62X51mm on the rest of NATO as the major player in it, and then only a few years later, changed to 5.56mm.

Most of NATO eventually caught up, but they weren't too happy with us. Especially since they'd all been heading down the .280 British/7.92X33mm road already.

[Blaine]

Why "muck" with a good thing? The .308 is perfect and can be loaded for many jobs.....

[MrMurphy]

Not everyone needs a .308 sized rifle.

[BenT]

I've handled the MVP predator (the varmit is the heavy barrel version) and I was very impressed . It had great balance and feel . Mossberg has a winner with that rifle. As far as the 300 Blackout goes , it much to do about nothing. The best use I could see is shooting steel plates out the back field with it, otherwise it does not have much to offer unless used as a suppressed weapon.

[L_Kilkenny]

Not everyone needs a .308 sized rifle.

What exactly is a .308 sized rifle and how is it different/worse than a bolt action in .300 blackout?

I know very little about the .300 blackout but seems to me it loses all it's luster in a bolt action. There are literally handfuls of other cartridges I'd choose first and most of those are available in guns just as light and compact as the new MVP.

[sore shoulder]

As a CQB out to 200M the .300 has a very valid point.

[Blaine]

It prolly does.....One would have to have continuous ammo supply, and hope 600m engagement is not necessary.

[bigbore442001]

I looked at the loading data. I am not all that impressed with what I see. Maybe there is a niche for it but not in my book, so to speak.

[sore shoulder]

If the US decided to change calibers, we would, and NATO would not come into play in the decision much.


We forced 7.62X51mm on the rest of NATO as the major player in it, and then only a few years later, changed to 5.56mm.

Most of NATO eventually caught up, but they weren't too happy with us. Especially since they'd all been heading down the .280 British/7.92X33mm road already.

7.92x33 is the WWII era cartridge used in the Stg44. The .300 BLK is very similar in design and purpose.


The .280 British was 7x43.

[MrMurphy]

I'm quite aware of that.

When the US adopted the 7.62X51, most of Europe was still using WW2 leftovers. The Brits went down the bullpup road with the EM2 in .280, and the Belgians were looking at the FAL in 7.92X33mm (which would have been similar in size to an AK). We stomped all over NATO and forced them to the X51mm since we were the major players with all the money.


The .300 Blackout is more or less, a factory .300 Whisper, intended specifically to be used in an AR-15 platform with minimal modifications. Thus, you don't need a .308 sized (AR-10) rifle, which is bigger and heavier. The .300 isn't a .308, but it does give added performance especially suppressed with nothing but an upper change to an AR.

It's a tool made to fit a specific problem, not one size fits all.

In a bolt action, it's a medium range round, nothing particularly special that the .260, 7mm-08 or a dozen other rounds don't do better, unless you count on it being suppressed.

[olyinaz]

Unless you're going to suppress it get something far better. That bolt gun with a short & fat barrel and suppressor mounted? With the 220gr Whisper loads? OK, for that one use - a subsonic suppressed tack driver - I get a smile on my face. THAT would indeed be pretty cool.

All other uses strike me as silly, but that's just me.

Oly