Stainless verses blues

[Sigmar]

Are the internal actions made of the same material ? if not is stainless stronger ?

[Griff]

Are the internal actions made of the same material ? if not is stainless stronger ?

The internals are the same as a blued model... no, for most purposes, stainless isn't as strong as carbon steel. Some stainless alloys are very strong, but in general, stainless is softer.

[TomD]

Not sure exactly what you are asking. But as mentioned, stainless is often weaker, however it wears better in some cases. Strength is only so important, one does not need stronger than strong enough.

You also have to be careful about what is really in silver guns. Some are chromed carbon, and in other cases there are small but important parts that are carbon, that may mean the gun does not deal well with immersion, or even being run hard and laid up wet. Stainless that can deal well with salt water is really soft.

[olyinaz]

Are the internal actions made of the same material ? if not is stainless stronger ?

It depends. Some manufacturers go to great lengths to ensure that a stainless pistol, for example, is filled with stainless parts. But often, usually in fact, there are some carbon steel bits here and there and it can be a nasty surprise to a person who thinks that a "stainless" firearm can be rode hard and put away wet.

My least favorite example of this is "stainless" Kimber auto pistols that have carbon steel barrels in the white. Completely unprotected carbon steel? In a carry pistol? Hey guess what - IT RUSTS.

Of course, stainless steel DOES corrode - just more slowly/more resistant. And to further complicate matters, now they finish stainless in all manner of black or earth or camo finishes, while also finishing carbon steel in silver nitride or other finishes, so you can't just look and assume that if it's silver it's "stainless" and if it's black it's regular carbon steel! It's all over the place these days.

If you have a more specific example or question in mind please expand upon your original. You'll find plenty of opinions and suggestions here!

[Mescalero]

It depends on the melt, as stainless steels are formulated.
400 series stainless is called stainless, but has a high carbon content and will readily oxidize.

[aragornelessar86]

Yup, like everyone has said, gotta know more about it. The other issue when talking about strength is you have to look at all the different ways in which metals can be considered strong (tensile, hardness, etc.).

[bdhold]

stainless steel is hardened by work hardening and nitrogen additions.

Carbon steel is hardened by carbon addition and heat treatment. For wear and contact stress parts, carbon is the preferred choice over stainless, because it can also be case (surface) hardened.

As a rule, blued steel is harder than stainless.

The nice thing about stainless, you can buff out scratches.

I'm a metallurgist and licensed professional engineer.

[Old Savage]

So then, what are the dependable stainless pistols for rust resistance and wear? Rugers?

[Grizz]

the answers to Sigmar's questions are tangled up in the alloys.

There are almost unlimited custom "stainless" alloys. Some of them are magnetic, some are not. Some of them corrode easily, some don't corrode. Some prop shafts will break like a piece of glass if they don't get adequate oxygen from the seawater. It's hard to make a blanket statement about stainless that doesn't have contrary examples.

My old 66 is very rust resistant in a salt air environment, so is my GS, my redhawk not so much.

All the stainless guns I've owned or shot were more than adequately strong for the loads they are designed to shoot. I haven't seen any info that they blow up more easily than blued steel guns, and there are lots of pictures of blown blued guns. I have not seen any stainless arms that were worn out by unlimited cycling, but they haven't been around as long as normal firearms so the test period is short by comparison.

My question is what is the purpose for the gun. For running around salt water in boats in all seasons and most all weather, tromping thru wet woods in downpours, and bringing a cold gun into a heated room, stainless far out performs blued steel for ease of maintenance. Condensation is one of the biggest enemies of firearms.

My son found his Marlin 1894 had rusted in a gunsock, something I will never put a gun into.

My blued superblackhawk pitted in the holster on a one day hunt in alpine above the sea. My stainless guns have never tried to, but sometimes a brown spot may appear which can be erased with your thumb.

I have read that some stainless is made more brittle in extreme cold climates, but blued guns won't rust at -50F so they're good to go in that environment.

Best,
Grizz

[Grizz]

So then, what are the dependable stainless pistols for rust resistance and wear? Rugers?

I have seen a stainless redhawk completely pitted and corroded sitting on a cold boat over a Juneau winter.

The newer ones may have a better alloy.

I have often left my 66 sitting out behind the radar on a cold boat for weeks with no sign of corrosion.

Not enough data to draw a viable conclusion, but I think the Smith stainless is fabulous.

My stainless guns get almost no oil for preservation purposes and so far have done exceptionally well.

[Old Savage]

OK, now I have to look at stainless Smiths - oh darn but living in the desert, not so much of an issue.

[Chris83716]

OK, now I have to look at stainless Smiths - oh darn but living in the desert, not so much of an issue.

I'm liking living in the high plains desert of Idaho more and more. Its a long way to that pesky salt water.

Chris

[Old Savage]

Chris, I have lived in NJ, PA, IA and Louisiana - here - no bugs and no humidity. It is hot in the summer - can I have a "but it's a dry heat" - golf all year round. Boise - that sounds cold.

[Sigmar]

Well this is why I was asking. Want to get a Rossi 454, had a concern on which is liable to hold up better to the pressures of the cartridge. Lol btw anyone have one for sale.

[Chris83716]

Shhh...... Don't tell anyone but Boise is in the Bannana belt. 2 weeks of god awful 0 deg weather in the winter and about 3 weeks of God awful 100+ in the summer. But the rest of the year is pretty nice. Atleast for a guy who grew up out side of Pittsburg then moved to Orlando. I think this is one of the best places to live in the country.

Chris

[Old Savage]

Chris - I've heard friends who moved try to refer to three places as "banana belts": Montana, South Dakota and Idaho - I am a little skeptical - another friend in one of those banana belts gave me a less glowing report.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I own about 15 stainless Ruger revolvers and have never seen any hint of rust on any of them BUT
I treat all my SS guns just the same as my blued ones. They always get a wipe down with a lightly oiled cloth before putting them away.

[Grizz]

OK, now I have to look at stainless Smiths - oh darn but living in the desert, not so much of an issue.

I've never had a problem with my redhawk. I don't like to have any oil on my guns when I'm hunting. I use wheel bearing grease in my GS action because it doesn't tend to migrate too much. In a dusty desert it'd turn into lapping compound.

How did the cowboys maintain their guns?

[Mescalero]

For the most part, they did not.
I worked on the Circle Cross Ranch for a while, and I grew up in that part of the country.
I have seen some pretty sorry specimens over the years.
Some time ago I offered a Marlin, straight gripped, .375, in good condition, for a real ranch rifle.
It generated 1 (one) response, and it was not ( in my opinion ) serious.
Not a good response, particularly here on this forum.
I have seen some good stuff since then, but have neglected to speak of it, I will not be an middle man for " lets make a deal "

[Old Savage]

I am bettin' cowboys did not maintain their guns.

[Mescalero]

No,
They just shot them untill they broke, at least that is the way I am finding them.

[Buck Elliott]

The Freedom Arms guns are as tough and strong as any others out there, and moreso than the rest. They are made of 17-4 ph, a precipitation-hardening alloy, which comes up to approx. 46 Rc., with a tensile strength of nearly 145,000 psi..
Don't know what alloy Rossi uses for their stainless leverguns

[Mescalero]

Did you mean Rockwell C scale?
I have seen a Rossi stainless .22 LR that had " spalling? "
You could see the wear pattern, and it looked like the metal had, I do not know; become soft and merged!

[olyinaz]

Did you mean Rockwell C scale?
I have seen a Rossi stainless .22 LR that had " spalling? "
You could see the wear pattern, and it looked like the metal had, I do not know; become soft and merged!

Do you mean galling? Stainless can have significant trouble with that. I've often looked at the stainless Lugers sold a few years back by Mitchell's and wondered if they were galling nightmares.

[Buck Elliott]

17-4 is not completely immune to galling, but is quite resistant to it.. The use of dis-similar alloys for adjacent, sliding parts especially, virtually eliminates that tendency.. For instance, while I used 17-4 for receiver and bolt in my .454 rifle, I employed 154CM (a cutlery-grade, high-impact alloy from Crucible) for the vertical locking lugs, and experienced no gallling whatsoever, through many thousands of rounds fired..

And yes, I mean 46 on the Rockwell C scale..

[Malamute]

Stainless can indeed be more resistant to corrosion, but it can also have some odd corrosion quirks. In some extreme environments, stainless parts have become honeycombe with corroion that wasnt evident to the naked eye, and the parts failed. The particular thing I had heard about was a walkway and/or supports in a salt water environment. They replaced it with an iron one, which surface rusted, but didnt pit and corrode internally, and lasted.

I've heard of a couple instances where certain people seemed to have a chemical reaction to stainless guns, and their skin oils and sweat made the guns turn black or rust. Not common, but interesting.

[Grizz]

Along those lines, stainless rigging (wire rope) on high tech sailboats can have catastrophic failures, bringing down the mast. It's a type of work hardening. Apparently there is invisible crazing that grows until the parts fail. Stainless tangs that attach the wire to the mast can fail the same way, suddenly with no obvious signs. Plain old mild steel is good stuff.

I've prefer galvanised plow wire and plain wire rope, such as tow wire. It rusts but will indicate failure before it is critically weak. The outer strands fail before the inner ones are wasted.