Wrestling with a new project....opinions sought to persuade

[wm]

Wrestling with a new project....opinions sought to persuade me what to do.

I have a Winchester 94 (early 70's) and it has been a little abused and much neglected to the point the barrel is trash. However the action is ugly but mechanically very good shape. Wood has been replaced.

Now the question is what should I do with it..........long barreled (22" or 24"), scoped 7-30 Waters? or a short barreled (16") 38-55win? Other? Primary use will be Michigan whitetail deer, occasionally hog and coyote and lots of paper punching. I think the longer barreled 7mm would be better for long shots on coyotes (or maybe even wolves if they get to have a hunt here) but on the other hand a 38-55 would be better at hogs (and bears if I ever draw a tag). Also a trapper sized 38-55 would be a useful social rifle.

I suppose it is not really an either / or choice.......it is more which do I do now and which do I do next year.

Oh one other question.......I've been told there are no necessary modifications to any of the internals going from 30 WCF to either 7-30 Waters or 38-55 Win.......is that correct? I thought there might be some issues with the lifter but maybe I am looking for problems before they raise their heads.

Thanks for being candid with your thoughts.

Wm

[model55]

38-55 is something I long to try but I wonder having said that if the trapper length is going to be abusive in that light a gun.

[OldWin]

I know it's not one of your choices but I would go with a 20" 38-55. I have a couple of 38-55 carbines and they handle very well. They are lighter than a 30-30 because of the bigger hole in the bore.
That said, I've never tried a trapper in 38-55.

[wecsoger]

Maybe, maybe a 38-55 but then again, I echo the comment on having it in the short barrel. Handy to carry and shoot a little. You're talking about paper punching though and after several rounds of muzzle blast the thrill may be gone.

Just curious, how is the barrel trashed? If it's outside damage, I could care less. File, grind, cold blue and good to go.

As far as the inside, I doubt in our lever world 1 in 50 rifles are truly shot out. Maybe coppered and leaded up and could use a good cleaning. Or on the other side, bubba decided he's going to clean with a stainless steel brush and a dewalt 18V cordless drill......

Just wondering your criteria behind replacing the barrel. Although if that's what you want to do, don't let me talk you out of it.

[Rusty]

I like the longer barrels myself. I like the way they seem to hang when shooting off hand. My choice would be a 24 or 26" .30-30 but I never gave much thought to a 7mm. A 7mm might be a lot of fun.

[Sixgun]

Thanks for being candid with your thoughts

Candid huh? Well, here goes.........By spending money, time, and energy on a 1970's 94 and making something out of it is like putting a suit on a monkey.

Forget those sintered metal 94's. Can't blue them properly and the tolerances are sloppy all resulting in a multitude of aggravation trying to get other parts to mate up for smoothness and accuracy. Either start with a pre-64 or preferably a pre-52 and work from there. A Marlin 336 is a more viable option.

The best and easiest thing to do is to buy exactly what you are looking for as the calibers you are looking for are not cost prohibitive. Then you will have more time and money to spend on reloading and shooting it. -----------Sixgun

[jnyork]

I agree with sixgun. Waste of money dinking with something like that, "lipstick on a pig", use your hardearned bucks to buy something decent to begin with.

[wm]

The original barrel is bulged and a little bent.

I appreciate the candor about the receiver......I originally intended to do this with a Marlin 336 and bought a couple cosmetically challenged examples but darned my luck, each one of them shot very good as is. 8-} Seriously I thought a Marlin in 7-30 Waters would be easier & more stable to scope. I've never seen a Marlin in 7-30 waters and figure it they did make a few they were big collectors items.

Andin my experience finding a messed up pre 64 is nigh on to impossible these days. This post 64 94 was basically given to me. I figured I would just try to get it back to working condition & scratch an itch at the same time. A buddy has a 32 Winchester Special barrel he keeps trying to convince me to use on my reciever instead and for a while I kept trying to get him to trade me out of the 94 and let him use his barrel on it.

Wm

[Mescalero]

Put it together as a 7.30
put a fixed power scout scope on it.
spend your money on ammo and learning the rifle.
After 300 rounds you will be one with the rifle, and I would like to see anyone on this forum try to convince you to part with it.

[wecsoger]

I love it when everyone starts getting feisty! (grin)

'lipstick on a pig' might be a bit harsh. True, you will *never* get a good blue or pretty much else done with that series of receiver.

Bent barrel, eh? Someone ran over it with a truck? Someone's old lady caught them coming home drunk one night, smelling of strange perfume? Now there is a story begging to be told. Doesn't really have to be true either!

Third option. You sound like me, wanting to bring back to life an old rifle. Find yourself another 30-30 barrel. Mount it, make sure everything head-spaces, shoots, etc. Clean that old girl up and get yourself a couple cans of alumahyde or some other of those high tech paints. Put them on right, they are harder than nails. Paint it up camo, either old school or digital, black or dark green, or even "pimp" it up and put a zombie outbreak squad logo on it. Maybe even look around and get a flashlight mount.

At this point you've got an excellent 'truck gun' for yourself or if your really went wild, it will probably sell easily.

Now you have the fun and experience of rebuilding and old rifle *and* cash in your hands. Go look around for another one to restore. Maybe, maybe even in the caliber you want, like a 38-55.

[JerryB]

I sent a 1974 Winchester 94 out to Oregon and Jes sent me back a very accurate 38-55 that is a joy to reload and shoot. A liitle lipstick on the old sow can do wonders. $225.00 and you can be shooting a 38-55.

[20cows]

I went with the trapper length 38-55 myself. The barrel is a product of a Jes rebore as well. The nickeled receivered one is my 38-55. The other is a trapper 30-30 I built for my nephew.



You can make it kick or not. My most common load pushes a 275 gr cast in the 1300 fps range and recoil is not a concern.

BTW, the buttstock is a standard post-64 carbine stock fitted to a rifle butt plate. It's just a personal choice.

[olyinaz]

Thanks for being candid with your thoughts

Candid huh? Well, here goes.........By spending money, time, and energy on a 1970's 94 and making something out of it is like putting a suit on a monkey.

Forget those sintered metal 94's. Can't blue them properly and the tolerances are sloppy all resulting in a multitude of aggravation trying to get other parts to mate up for smoothness and accuracy.

My thoughts too. Send it off and have it rebored or relined. It's low cost and will have it back to worth something if you decide to get rid of it.

[Griff]

Thanks for being candid with your thoughts

Candid huh? Well, here goes.........By spending money, time, and energy on a 1970's 94 and making something out of it is like putting a suit on a monkey.
Forget those sintered metal 94's. Can't blue them properly and the tolerances are sloppy all resulting in a multitude of aggravation trying to get other parts to mate up for smoothness and accuracy. Either start with a pre-64 or preferably a pre-52 and work from there. A Marlin 336 is a more viable option.
The best and easiest thing to do is to buy exactly what you are looking for as the calibers you are looking for are not cost prohibitive. Then you will have more time and money to spend on reloading and shooting it. -----------Sixgun

Methinks Sixgun and others are being a bit harsh. Maybe even a bit more than harsh!

Of the 29 Winchester 94s I have, 12 of them are post '64, ranging from '66 to '79. Three of which are commemoratives. The oldest pre- I have is an 1898, and youngest is a '64. Amongst all of them, there are sweet, smooth ones, and there are a couple of not so smooth ones... there are rattly ones, and tight ones. Let me tell ya, vintage has NOTHING to do with it. The one that rattles the most is a 1927 carbine, the tightest is a 1979 rifle. The smoothest is my 1913 carbine that once belonged to a CA police department. It's also probably the one that's been shot the least, (outside 2 of the commemoratives).

Now maybe I own some of the worst pre-64 Winchester 94 ever built... and some of the best post '64s... But, given that they are a range in what some would call "quality"... I think not. Actually, I like my 94s a little loose... except when in battery and the link is locked up into the lower tang.

If you want to take an otherwise unserviceable 94 (of any vintage) and rebuild it into something that you probably couldn't buy (as in not offered by the factory), go ahead and spend the time and money you deem necessary. I did. And out shot all comers for several years!

1979 94 carbine converted to a rifle with Numrich bull barrel in .30-30. Best groups: ¾" @ 100 yards, 1-¼" @ 200. I wish I could still shoot that well, even with scope!

[20cows]

I made up several of my puzzle 94s with receivers of that vintage. They look like what they look like. The top one in the picture above is one of them. It took a nice brown. I had zero problems with making good shooters out of all of them.

[PriseDeFer]

Nice piece 20. WM why not try that 38-55 sawed off? Freckled receiver? The ugly step child that shoots with the rest of them.
You'll have a light, quick rat rod that looks tough and speaks loud. May be the one you use the hardest.

[Pete44ru]

.

"K.I.S.S." ..........................................

I would respectfully suggest that you install your buddy's .32 Special barrel, CerraKote (Brownel's) the receiver, refinish the wood & never look back.

The $$$ saved over your other plans should allow you to buy another rifle, in .375/.38-55.

BTW - To answer your other question: AFAIK, no internal changes are necessary to switch between the .38-55 & 7x30 Waters, since both are the same case size as the .30-30.

.

[mergus]

Since you asked, I would go with the 20" 38-55, round barrel. I would put some sort of peep sight on the rear with a nice flat topped post up front. For a finish on the metal, I'd Duracoat it in black with zombie green Duracoat lightning bolt stripes at an angle. On the stock, I'd have a thin rubber recoil pad (as much for standing in the corner so it won't slip as anything else) with the same black/green treatment to the wood. The recoil pad and black/green appearance upgrade would make it appealing to younger folks who would either bug you to let them shoot it or bug you to sell it them. Either way you win....

Mergus

[gak]

I've got mixed feelings here, a three pronger - between not entirely disagreeing with those that've said "forged it" and move on to something more worthy of restoration, OR just making it into a reliable .30-30 truck gun with minimal investment--either as 16" trapper or a new 20" carbine barrel,...OR doing something a bit different. All would seem to have their own merits. Regarding the last option, how about a 7-30 Waters trapper---"just because" and they never made 'em. I'd give that lousy sintered receiver one of the treatments mentioned or similar - or just strip what remains and antique it (I think I've heard while they won't re-blue, they'll CCH ok?) I'd even add the saddle ring, correct front post sight behind a Pre War correct barrel band. As a nice side effect of the 7mm route, the 7-30 should tame the sturm und drang a bit from the .30-30 (which in the shorty is gives noticeably more boom than in the 20").I like the idea of a 20" 7-30 as well.

I'm tempted to say no to the 24" 7-30 as nice ones already exist for a total cost of not much more than what you'd have in your original purchase, a rebarrel and whatever cosmetics you'd give your gun. A friend has a gorgeous factory 7-30, pre safety, AE 24" XTR. I've handled it and its balance is uncanny. One of my favorite Winchesters. Those XTRs are not your average Post 64 Winnies. Not normally a huge AE fan, it does give you the option to scope, taking further advantage of the 7-30's added reach over the .30-30.

[Blaine]

Cheesy and ugly does not necessarily mean worthless....Do it, or you'll always wonder. (I'd go with a longer barrel...my Guide Gun just about has me worn out on short barrels....)

[Sixgun]

Griff,
Harsh? Hey! What are we here, a bunch of kids? I grew up fighting to get to my front door.

You bet...................but...only harsh for spending a fair amount of time, money, and energy on. The way the post 64's come from the factory make excellent shooters and if you HAVE BUDDIES or PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE on how to work on one of these in order to change calibers, and to keep costs down, I'm all for it. But I'll be danged if I'm gonna spend 3 or 4 hundred or more on a rifle that's worth $150.

I've shot my share of 26" comm. rifles and without a doubt , they make the best shooters. But why change calibers on one of those when they are available in most calibers. I dunno. I'm too tired to argue. I'm going downstairs and fire up a doobie--been a rough day. (not really) -----------------------------Six

[wm]

Just to let you all know I resolved my dilemma by fixing my Blazer (i.e. had to spend my conversion money on car parts).......and the receiver that I stripped down was traded to my buddy with the 32 Win spec barrel for a dozen NIB AR-15 magazines which I will give to my nephew rather then pay him for fixing the transmission on the truck.

Situation resolved........but I still have this itch for a big bore trapper and a 7-30 Waters so I guess the search will continue.

Thanks for your thoughts......they are appreciated.

Wm

[sore shoulder]

...the receiver that I stripped down was traded to my buddy with the 32 Win spec barrel for a dozen NIB AR-15 magazines ...

Wow, you got the better end of that deal by far.

[RIHMFIRE]

if it were mine...i would stick with a caliber where components are
readily available...brass and bullets......
and a best caliber for the game you chase...the most!