45-70 and Annealing?

Eye-Bite! · Post by **Eye-Bite!** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:43 pm

At what point should one consider Annealing a case? New out of the box or after the first time they are fired or....? I'm just trying to figure out in advance how I should approach this if at all. New to the 45-70 Govt. cartridge. Load mostly Handgun shells etc. Thank You for any and all input. Big John.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:32 pm

When they start splitting? The first hundred I bought are the Winchester branded nickel ones. I've hotrodded them and mousefarted them and cleaned them and not cleaned them. They have the nickel about worn completely off and I've never had one split. My Starline ones will probably last forever. I doubt I will ever need to anneal them.

Bottleneck cases? I saved a real old batch of Win 30/30 that was splitting by dipping the necks in hot lead until the web was too hot to hold then dunked in water.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:14 pm

LET ME SEE......YOU BETTER HURRY UP AND GET READY PDQ......IN SIXTY YEARS OF SHOOTING MY OWN HANDLOADS I HAD TO ANNEAL ONE LITTLE BATCH OF BRASS AND THAT WAS SOME NORMA 257ACKLEY/IMP IN 1968......NOW HEAR THIS !!!! BRASS IS AN EXPENDABLE COMMODITY/PRODUCT, WHEN IT STARTS TO CRACK YOU SHIQCAN THE ENTIRE BATCH AND BUY NEW.....YOU HEAR ME...NEW !!!!! THINKL I AM KIDDING, CONSIDER THIS....IF THE NECKS ARE SPLITTING THE CASE HEADS ARE AS HARD AND BRITTLE OR EVEN MORE SO....GUESS WHAT HAPPENS THEN RIGHT BY YOUR ONLY TWO GODGIVEN HANDS AND EYEBALLS........I THOUGH YOU'D SEE IT MY WAY....
CARRY ON.....

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:48 pm

And there you have it from a true authority.

Dewight · Post by **Dewight** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:48 pm

I started annealing my cases when I noticed it took different amount of effort to seat bullets. Once I annealed them the effort to seat the bullets was very consistent.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:52 pm

Tycer wrote:And there you have it from a true authority.

Yes. I could not agree more with Terry or what you wrote.

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Eye-Bite! · Post by **Eye-Bite!** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:11 am

Dewight wrote:I started annealing my cases when I noticed it took different amount of effort to seat bullets. Once I annealed them the effort to seat the bullets was very consistent.

Thanks, Not interested in repairing brass as much as I am interested in making it last. Anyway, annealing is a part of reloading that is an accepted practice. Even some of the ammo manufacturers use it on their product. As I see it, it's up to the individual to decide when to call it quits and dispose of the suspect case as no longer viable. In my original post on this subject... What I'm asking is, when or what is the point where Annealing should be considered? Is there a rule of thumb there?

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:45 am

I think it is an interesting question though. Sometimes a batch of brass or loaded rounds just seems brittle from the start.

Eye-Bite! · Post by **Eye-Bite!** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:52 am

AJMD429 wrote:I think it is an interesting question though. Sometimes a batch of brass or loaded rounds just seems brittle from the start.

Absolutely, and I have some now. Brass may be Affordable or cheap to some, Just not me and it's scarce as Hen's teeth at the moment for many calibers which sheds a new light on the subject.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:59 pm

I have been in TERRY`S camp on this even before I knew there was a TERRY.
Good advice, period...

harry · Post by **harry** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:09 pm

Chuck 100 yd wrote:I have been in TERRY`S camp on this even before I knew there was a TERRY.
Good advice, period...

So if you went a bought some new brass ( as is the question here) and found the necks to be unsatisfactory you would throw it out (the new brass) and just buy more?

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:07 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:BRASS IS AN EXPENDABLE COMMODITY/PRODUCT, WHEN IT STARTS TO CRACK YOU SHIQCAN THE ENTIRE BATCH AND BUY NEW.....YOU HEAR ME...NEW !!!!! THINKL I AM KIDDING, CONSIDER THIS....IF THE NECKS ARE SPLITTING THE CASE HEADS ARE AS HARD AND BRITTLE OR EVEN MORE SO.

Hate to be the only one in this camp, but here I am. TERRY, YOU'RE WRONG! Necks get brittle because they get worked by expanding when fired and then being resized. If you have a nice chamber in your gun the necks don't expand much and they go a long time before becoming brittle and your "buy new" advice is not unreasonable. But if you have a not-so-good chamber and the necks expand a bunch with each shot, they can become real brittle real fast. I have a 284 Win that, if I didn't anneal the necks, would last maybe 3 shots. 284 Win is not a cartridge you want to be buying brass for on any regular basis. And I have a 25-20 that I anneal every 5 shots or so to prevent losing the cases to neck splits. Those are the only two I have that I anneal for, but annealing is a good way to extend brass life for those rifles you own that are oversize in the neck area of the chamber.

And been my experience that once neck splits appear it is too late to anneal -- you're going to loose the whole batch if it has the same loading history.

Eye-Bite! · Post by **Eye-Bite!** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:32 am

earlmck wrote:
Terry Murbach wrote:BRASS IS AN EXPENDABLE COMMODITY/PRODUCT, WHEN IT STARTS TO CRACK YOU SHIQCAN THE ENTIRE BATCH AND BUY NEW.....YOU HEAR ME...NEW !!!!! THINKL I AM KIDDING, CONSIDER THIS....IF THE NECKS ARE SPLITTING THE CASE HEADS ARE AS HARD AND BRITTLE OR EVEN MORE SO.
Hate to be the only one in this camp, but here I am. TERRY, YOU'RE WRONG! Necks get brittle because they get worked by expanding when fired and then being resized. If you have a nice chamber in your gun the necks don't expand much and they go a long time before becoming brittle and your "buy new" advice is not unreasonable. But if you have a not-so-good chamber and the necks expand a bunch with each shot, they can become real brittle real fast. I have a 284 Win that, if I didn't anneal the necks, would last maybe 3 shots. 284 Win is not a cartridge you want to be buying brass for on any regular basis. And I have a 25-20 that I anneal every 5 shots or so to prevent losing the cases to neck splits. Those are the only two I have that I anneal for, but annealing is a good way to extend brass life for those rifles you own that are oversize in the neck area of the chamber.

And been my experience that once neck splits appear it is too late to anneal -- you're going to loose the whole batch if it has the same loading history.

First and foremost... Thank You for actually reading and answering my train of thought rather than.... well you know (Rant, Rave, Chastise (?)). I do have some new brass that is in bad shape from the factory. It seems a waste to just chuck-it. Again, Thank You for your Positive and Forward thinking to help me as well as others. Big John.

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:41 am

Annealing can help accuracy on the big black powder cartridges by making bullet pull consistent. Many BPRS shooters anneal just for that purpose.

joec · Post by **joec** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:15 am

I anneal my new brass in 45-70 before I load it the first time. I also size it as well after that. I anneal again after 5 to 6 reloads and I'm getting about 20 to 30 times before replacing the brass.

Eye-Bite! · Post by **Eye-Bite!** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:34 am

joec wrote:I anneal my new brass in 45-70 before I load it the first time. I also size it as well after that. I anneal again after 5 to 6 reloads and I'm getting about 20 to 30 times before replacing the brass.

Great!, Practical and Factual experience we all can learn from. Thank you, Big John.

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