Hunting is not what you can kill but a fair chase.

[rangerider7]

Being outdoors and putting you ability against the prey. We are the top of the chain as predators. Have hunting ethics and enjoy life. Don't have the idea of kill anything that moves but have an ethical attitude. That is my two cents. RR7

[iceman]

I agree 100%.

[Griff]

Taking of game is like ice cream on pie... Not wholly necessary, but... has never hurt the experience.

[jeepnik]

Alas were it only so for everyone. Those few who don't respect the rules make everyone else look bad. A rope is a good solution to a poacher.

[FWiedner]

These days I follow the game laws and support them so long as they are based on sound management that supports hunters and hunting.

In my book hunting is hunting and killing is killing. Two different things. Hunting is the activity that usually includes free-chase and a wild animal.

Ethics is whatever passes go without breaking the rules in the particular location you're either hunting or killing. A regional moree.

All I can say about 'poaching' is that there is an 'ethical' difference between criminal activity and unlicensed subsistence hunting.

If you don't want to be a slob, don't be one. I won't complain or criticize.

[jdad]

So where do nuisance predators (coyotes) fall? Hunting or killing? This is an honest question since I am neither a rancher nor hunter, but am curious. I've been told some things "need" to be killed and yet others consider it a hunt

[FWiedner]

I'd think that the answer to that question would lie in just how the activity was performed.

For predatory pest animals, I'd call it "hunting" if there were the elements of sporting chance or fair chase for the animal.

I'd call it killing it they were trapped or snared and then shot in the trap.

[Lastmohecken]

Well, there's hunting, and there's killing, and there's fair chase, and there's poaching (kill as you can, when you can), then there's the game hogs, and double dippers.

I know some dammed good hunters, and they do it fair chase, etc, but they hunt 5 days a week like it was a job, and do everything legal, kill big bucks, etc legally, except for the body count. They will use other people's tags, or no tags at all, and just never check the deer in unless of course it's the big one. They will kill 3 limits a year, or better. This is the Game Hog. I hate game hogs. I got a lot more respect for the poacher that shoots his deer out of the window of his truck, and goes home and feeds his family, then a darned game hog.

[barbarossa]

I know a few who because they consider coyotes predators of the lowest kind run them down and over with snowmobiles and consider it great fun.This I consider disgusting and do not call them sportsman of any kind.

[6pt-sika]

The one that I think is disgusting are those guys in Texas flying around in the helicopters , shooting the feral piggies and leaving them to ROT !

WTF is FAIR about ANY of that !

And yeah I do not really think of piggies as game animals but they are living breathing creatures .

[shooter]

The one that I think is disgusting are those guys in Texas flying around in the helicopters , shooting the feral piggies and leaving them to ROT !

WTF is FAIR about ANY of that !

And yeah I do not really think of piggies as game animals but they are living breathing creatures .

I can't say I'd enjoy shooting them from a helicopter or not. I'm sure it's a neat experience. I used to have a bit of a different view on those pigs, but I live in Texas and have seen first hand their numbers and the damage they can do. They are pests, plain and simple. I don't really agree with leaving them to rot, as I've always been taught you kill what you eat with few exceptions. However, to the ranchers and farmers out here and others that have a vested interest in how and what the land produces, these pigs are no different than if they were to get a mice infestation in the grain silo. The pigs are taking over, and they are virtually impossible to eradicate. Even shooting them from a helicopter doesn't make a dent in the population. A herd of those pigs can tear up several acres of crop in a matter of hours. Not to mention they eat everything and anything, including all of the pecans and acorns that could be going to the deer herd.

I can see both sides of the argument. I don't kill just to kill, but in situations like those pigs, I can see why people do. If I was losing thousands of dollars, I'd be looking at some sort of a way to make that stop.

[MrMurphy]

I've known guys who were gunners on aerial hog-killing runs.

They're not worried about fair. They're worried about stopping $25,000 worth of damage per day from one little sounder of hogs. One of my instructors, who is a former professional guide, has hunted for 30+ years all over the world and loves to hunt, does so every year at every chance (fairly) shot through an entire case of buckshot from a Benelli autoloader killing hogs over a multi-thousand acre ranch.

Most of the hogs were big enough that they weren't terribly good eating even if they had been recovered, and most of the kills can be used as bait for ground-hunting guys after coyotes or hogs (stand or still hunters).


Bit different from going after your deer for the season. Hogs are a predatory pest animal.

[Griff]

Depredation comes in many forms. I have no doubt that we humans can be viewed as participating in depredation when we clearcut, plow and plant what we think of as crops... but we've ruined the land for what it naturally grows.

Pigs, hogs, havelina, whether feral or native are extremely destructive to the depredation that we humans have performed... left unchecked, the land may just about go back to its former non-productive (in human terms), condition.

6pt, when traditional methods of removing destructive species from an area are unsuccessful... and these animals are in the process of undoing all the work that it may have taken generations to mature... what do you suggest? (As background, for the justification for such drastic action, local custom, & legal in accordance with state law... if you are in an agri-business and a human comes on your property to steal your product, effectively taking food from your babies mouths, you have the legal right to kill said thief. Pigs, hogs & havelina, whether feral or native, are thieves. 'Nuff said.

[Bridger]

When nuisance beaver trapping made up a major part of my income....I can guarantee yall I wasn't worried about fair chase lol. I followed the laws.....but I was focused on killing.

[BigSky56]

I look at it a couple ways theres hunting and theres shooting both involve killing.
A person thats just feeding his family is not a poacher, a poacher is some one who feeds their ego they shoot a animal and it has ground shrinkage and they go after another or their so lazy they use a one eyed dog at night their just horn poachers . A few years back in march I found 3 bull elk that had been shot and their antlers knocked off if the dipsticks had waited 2 more weeks they'ed of fell off but those horn poachers were to lazy to go looking for dropped horns.
I hunt elk because I enjoy eating them and I enjoy taking out family and friends in pursuit of them. Ive never suffered from horn fever I take the first legal animal I see whether its a rag horn or a big bull and I have taken a couple of weird horned bulls to get them out of the gene pool, fact is I prefer a dry cow for eating.
As far as predators thats just shooting I deal with the ones that have become a problem for people, now days when I see a coyote and their just mousing they get a pass if their paying to much attention to stock they get a dirt nap. wolves and cougars around stock get a nap to.
A wildlife expert told me that predators that come down and become a problem for people are missing a couple of trace minerals in their system copper and lead. danny

[gamekeeper]

I love hunting and I always try to be fair to my quarry, I also have worked in pest control for over 30 years. I have to kill pests with little hunting involved, just killing as quickly and humanely as I can.
I value and respect the life of quarry that I hunt and I also respect the pests that I have to kill.
The difference to me is, I enjoy hunting, killing is just a job I do.

BTW, I was a poacher before turning gamekeeper but only to put food on my table.

[Tycer]

I love hunting and I always try to be fair to my quarry, I also have worked in pest control for over 30 years. I have to kill pests with little hunting involved, just killing as quickly and humanely as I can.
I value and respect the life of quarry that I hunt and I also respect the pests that I have to kill.
The difference to me is, I enjoy hunting, killing is just a job I do.

BTW, I was a poacher before turning gamekeeper but only to put food on my table.

Good on you. This is my opinion in action.

[6pt-sika]

BTW, I was a poacher before turning gamekeeper but only to put food on my table.

I read in several "english novels" where the Lord of the Manor would make a comment of something to the effect of past poachers making the best gamekeepers

[6pt-sika]

6pt, when traditional methods of removing destructive species from an area are unsuccessful... and these animals are in the process of undoing all the work that it may have taken generations to mature... what do you suggest? (As background, for the justification for such drastic action, local custom, & legal in accordance with state law... if you are in an agri-business and a human comes on your property to steal your product, effectively taking food from your babies mouths, you have the legal right to kill said thief. Pigs, hogs & havelina, whether feral or native, are thieves. 'Nuff said.

I suggest I don't care for it !

I've had people on here give me s...h...i..t over killing deer or bear on Damage Control Permits . And I was doing it in the same manner I would during regulare hunting season PLUS we always butcher the animals we kill !

I find it rather two sided that some folks here would give me c...r...a...p about what I do and we don't waste . yet being as this takes place in TEXAS it's fine . And on top of that the OP says "Don't have the idea of kill anything that moves but have an ethical attitude."

I do not envision shooting from a helicopter and leaving it to waste as ethical period .

[6pt-sika]

I've known guys who were gunners on aerial hog-killing runs.

They're not worried about fair. They're worried about stopping $25,000 worth of damage per day from one little sounder of hogs. One of my instructors, who is a former professional guide, has hunted for 30+ years all over the world and loves to hunt, does so every year at every chance (fairly) shot through an entire case of buckshot from a Benelli autoloader killing hogs over a multi-thousand acre ranch.

Most of the hogs were big enough that they weren't terribly good eating even if they had been recovered, and most of the kills can be used as bait for ground-hunting guys after coyotes or hogs (stand or still hunters).


Bit different from going after your deer for the season. Hogs are a predatory pest animal.

You justify it however you want !

I don't agree .

[gamekeeper]

BTW, I was a poacher before turning gamekeeper but only to put food on my table.

I read in several "english novels" where the Lord of the Manor would make a comment of something to the effect of past poachers making the best gamekeepers

It did come in very useful..

[MrMurphy]

Not justifying it, but I understand where they're coming from. I hunt hogs from the ground. And a lot of the helo units 'do' recover the hogs they kill when possible and send the meat to homeless shelters.

A hog isn't really a game animal, it's a human-introduced problem. You can hunt them like game, as I do, but if you're running a farm measured in square miles and a single hog can run $1k of crops a night and there's 30 in a sounder (one of dozens)....... it's not hunting. It's livelihood protection, just like shooting a coyote after your cattle. They have no reason to be 'fair' about it, they want the problem to vanish in a hurry. Sometimes this includes letting hunters on the property to hunt, but if a helicopter is the most efficient way to do it, they will.

[rangerider7]

We are the top predators of the chain but we do have the ability to reason, use it. My final words on the subject. RR7

[6pt-sika]

Not justifying it, but I understand where they're coming from. I hunt hogs from the ground. And a lot of the helo units 'do' recover the hogs they kill when possible and send the meat to homeless shelters.

A hog isn't really a game animal, it's a human-introduced problem. You can hunt them like game, as I do, but if you're running a farm measured in square miles and a single hog can run $1k of crops a night and there's 30 in a sounder (one of dozens)....... it's not hunting. It's livelihood protection, just like shooting a coyote after your cattle. They have no reason to be 'fair' about it, they want the problem to vanish in a hurry. Sometimes this includes letting hunters on the property to hunt, but if a helicopter is the most efficient way to do it, they will.

Seems to me if you weren't trying to justify it you wouldn't have replied !

Obviousely you didn't read all I wrote as I neither consider a piggie a game animal .

So the bottom line is you agree with it and I can't say I do !

[El Chivo]

One person's definition of fair chase and pests is different from another's. I like cats and cringed when I read about the Wisconsin mortar guy who kills feral cats with a mortar and toy bowling balls and sets out milk bowls for them. However, others like dogs and I would not weep over a coyote or a wild dog.

Once I had my sights on a coyote and didn't shoot, she stepped out onto the trail ahead of me and didn't see me. Maybe 8 feet away. Finally I cleared my throat and she heard that and looked back, and looked so scared and sorry I couldn't pull the trigger. Another time I shot at coyote that was further away (but missed).

I passed on a buck my second year of hunting, he was caught in the creekbed below and was a dead duck. Also he saw me before I saw him so I thought it wasn't fair. Another buck had stopped under a tree and froze, thinking I wouldn't make him out. I had all day to shoot, but didn't. The buck I did shoot, never saw me and I felt like it was a fair hunt.

However these days I am not so nice and would shoot in these same instances. It's complicated, I do feel like they are fruits on the vine but at the same time I understand they have a life. Right now I would be practical, I'd shoot any coyote because they pull down fawns, and I'd shoot any legal buck because I get so few opportunities. I also shoot nongame starlings and ground squirrels when before I wouldn't have.