Refinishing

[TheWoodCrafter]

I have been looking for a Winchester 1894 made the year I was born.
(that does make it pre-64 for sure)
Thought I would like to restore it and hang it up next to my new 1981 Border Patrol carbine.

If done correctly, what would this do to the value (collectability) of the gun?
Done correctly - completely dis-assemble the rifle and have it professionally re-blued.
I am a woodwork by trade so I would refinish the wood.

I guess I really don't care about the value in my life time.
I would leave it to my yet unborn grandchild.

[Pete44ru]

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Whatever value it has (depending upon condition, model & features) would be reduced by 50% for ANY refinishing of wood and/or metal (more devaluation for a poor job).

[Chuck 100 yd]

Depending on the condition it is in now and the quality of the restoration work,
they can be worth less or they can be worth a great deal more.

True collector guns have to be almost NIB in order to bring top dollar and worn (shooters) are at the other end of the spectrum. It`s your call and your gun. Have fun!

[Sixgun]

Unless you were born back in the twenties or early thirties, a like new example can be found for under a grand.......easily.---------Sixgun

[3leggedturtle]

Woodcrafter welcome to the forumn. I refinished my Grandpa's '59 M94 back in '78.. The stock was pretty beat up. Did 6 or 7 coats of tru-oil. It had a lot of blotches where it looked like the factory finish just peeled off. It still looks great. Really don't give a rat's A..$..$ what it did to the value. Grandpa always wanted to redo the stock. He passed away b4 I got the rifle. So I felt I needed to honor his request.

[TheWoodCrafter]

I guess I want to restore one as a project, I like taking things apart and working on them.
I could get my daughter to help me since it will be her future child that will get it.
I have been watching GunBroker for the right year but they seem to be a little pricey for the condition.
Some guys are really "proud" of what they have, it be old and pre-64 in all.

I have found a discrepancy in the manufacture year.
It looks like there are several places to find the manufacture year.
Where do I find the "right" year from the serial number?
And why are guys afraid to list the serial number when selling a gun?

[Pete44ru]

I have found a discrepancy in the manufacture year.
It looks like there are several places to find the manufacture year.

Where do I find the "right" year from the serial number ? - Right here on our home page: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/Winch ... mation.htm

And why are guys afraid to list the serial number when selling a gun ? - Usually so some scumbag won't try to claim the gun

Also, the Winchester Polishing Room records can drill down fairly accuratel.

Those records, and the Madis records, are covered here (please read the entire thread)

: http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... shing+room



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[TheWoodCrafter]

Fantastic.

Thanks for the help.

[PriseDeFer]

Maybe try to next to the idea of conserve rather than restore. It takes a keener eye, more skill and you still get to take things apart.

[pwl44m]

If it aint askin too much WC, what year were U born. This bill has been filled before in this Forum. I understand U prolly want it to look as nice as Ur present rifle if they r to be displayed together. Good luck on Ur quest.
Perry

[Mike Armstrong]

This is a common and complacated problem involving some hard personal decisions, including what gun to buy. You are limited by the remaining--and available--guns made in your birth year, so you may not have a huge choice.

Wiser heads than mine can advise you what to ultimately do with the gun you DO buy. My own inexpert but experienced advice is DO NOTHING FAST! Find out all you can about options. Then see what you REALLY have:

Is it original (all parts original)?
Does it have any "personal," paramilitary, \ or LEA history worth finding out?
What condition is it really in?

As to the latter, I've found it very useful to "give the gun a bath" first--disassemble it and lightly scrub all metal parts with bronze wool (many chain hardware stores have it and it is the gentlest "scrubber" I know) soaked in a penetrating oil (I use Kroil, but there are other good ones). It will remove surface rust, but not bluing, even bluing that has turned brown or "plum." Note any defects you find (buggered screws, etc). Go slow, use lots of oil, not much "elbow grease." Then scrub the wood parts with a cotton rag wetted but not soaked with rubbing alcohol to remove "finger crud" and dried solvents/oils (Since you're a wood worker, you may know a better way).

Sometimes it is pretty amazing what you can "uncover" this way: apparently cruddy guns often look presentable and can be just left as-is, with a little coat of Break-Free and stock wax.

I won't bore you with how to REALLY clean the bore--plenty of places to find that. The trick is to REALLY clean it--get out all carbon, lead, and copper fouling so you can see what it really is like. Often I find that bores that look ruined just AREN'T. And then shoot the gun; you may be surprised at the accuracy an apparently wrecked bore can show, especially if it's a .30-30.

You probably know all this, in which case, ignore. I usually just do this much with guns I buy and let them be what the are, unless something is missing or broken.

Restoring an old gun is a good thing. Just go slow and enjoy the journey.

And, as one newcomer--and Californian--to another, Welcome to the forum!

[457121]

what caliber? if we're talking 94 carbine in 30-30 there is no true collector value to speak of as there were millions made. refinishing one of those won't hurt anything

[Mike Armstrong]

Agreed that .30-30 carbines are common. Don't agree about the lack of collectability.

Ever seen the prices on a merely decent early saddle-ring 1894 .30-30? Or one with paramilitary or LEA, prison, or company guard-gun markings? Or one with a serious verified provenance to a well-known person or LEA? Not to be messed with, more than a "bath" IMO.

Of course the OP would have to be 95-100 years old for the first situation to be an issue for him. But the others might well occur regarding a gun from the 1940s or early 1950s, when cops and corporations were still buying and marking .30-30s in some areas.

All I'm sayin' is that you should do a little homework on just about ANY Winchester before you haul out the sandpaper and hacksaw.....

[7.62 Precision]

Apart from the should you or shouldn't you argument, which some people will be strong on one side and some on the other (I'm kind of in the middle - I prefer to see it on newer rifles than older, yet a really sharp restoration can be very nice and also sometimes more expensive than an original in mint condition, depending on the rifle) you should think about the refinish itself.

Do you want to bring it to an authentic original factory finish for that rifle, that year, or are you willing to vary from that?
If so, you might think about things like a colour case hardening on the receiver, barrel bands, etc., or think about a little engraving, etc.

While some companies' prices are spectacularly high on this kind of thing, others are very reasonable and do very nice work. Assuming your birth date is somewhere post WWII to 1963, you can find well used but cared for 94 Winchesters in the $350-$450 range easily if you watch, especially locally, that are good candidates for restoration. Looking for a particular year might force you to pay a bit more, since it limits choices. Still, at those prices a really good restoration with case hardened receiver and nice bluing/wood will definitely increase the value, though it might decrease it 50 years from now.

If you are careful with your choices, you might even be able to make it worth more than you spent, or maybe not.
What you have to consider is the value to you and to your grandchild.

I have a 1898 Krag. My father sporterized it when he was just a kid - that is what you did with a Krag back then. One of my uncles ended up with it, it sat in some box somewhere, and when I was visiting my grandparents as a teenager (only the second time I was out of Alaska and the third time had seen my grandparents) my uncle returned it to my grandfather, thinking it was his. It was red with rust and my grandfather expected that the finish was shot, but working for hours with oil and steel wool, I removed the rust and the bluing looked perfect underneath. My father told my grandfather to keep it, and my grandfather gave it to me for building fence for him.
Now many people would lament the sporterizing of this historic rifle, but I can buy a nice original Krag any time I want. For very little money I can buy a sporterized Krag. I cannot, with any amount of money, replace this rifle that my dad built.

[wfo]

I think that if you want to refinish one to your liking and aren't going to sell it anyway, then go for it. I'd rather have something to my liking than someone else's.

[TheWoodCrafter]

You guys are great.

I DID come to the right place, so glad I found you guys.

All great advice.

I was born in 1953. I have found a few reasonably priced.
I wanted 30-30. The gun would be easier to find and the ammo should be around at every gun shop in the country forever.

I think I like the idea of making it mine during the restoration.
Maybe an engraving of my name and birth date and maybe leave space for my death date.
I guess I really don't care what I do to the resale value.

I just want a flawless firearm that the 2 of us can shoot together and I can leave to him/her.

[Pete44ru]

I think I like the idea of making it mine during the restoration.
Maybe an engraving of my name and birth date and maybe leave space for my death date.

GROAN ! ! .

I would respectfully suggest a small silver/gold shield or oval, in/on the buttstock, as an alternative site for yer memorial............



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[7.62 Precision]

I would respectfully suggest a small silver/gold shield or oval, in/on the buttstock, as an alternative site for yer memorial............

Good advice, and also someone who can't or won't engrave a firearm can engrave a plaque. Also, it is much cheaper to ship than a firearm if you want to send it off for engraving.

I did a Savage 99 for a presentation once and I got a brass patch box lid, the type that used to go on flintlocks, etc. I cut off the hinge, had it engraved, and fastened it to the stock with screws. It looked really nice, sort of an old style look, yet clearly a presentation piece. I will try to dig up photos.

[TheWoodCrafter]

GROAN ! ! .

I would respectfully suggest a small silver/gold shield or oval, in/on the buttstock, as an alternative site for yer memorial............



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Excellent idea, thanks.

[claybob86]

I wouldn't worry about the resale value either. Make it yours! Any devaluation will be insignificant compared to the satisfaction you get out of it. Please keep us posted on this project!