Older working class bolt action rimfires?

[Canuck Bob]

My search for a 22 is changing. A preferred lever is too pricey and nice pumps are just as expensive. Bolt action 22s are common and priced right, $125 to $350, and available in single shot, tube fed, and mag fed in nice shooting condition or better.

Available here are most the USA styles, Cooey/CIL rebadged models from Anschutz and Winchester I think, and early Cooey's built here in Canada. I know nothing about these rifles except that maybe the Winchesters and Remingtons are better built? Early bolt Winchesters are the most common it seems. Also they really make a lot of sense with my girls growing bigger every day. Plus a guy can take a saw to the buttstock without risking destroying value. My first powder burner was a Cooey tube fed which was probably a Winchester model made in Canada.

I'm asking here because the advice here is always to the point and honest.

Any preferred models from the 70's and earlier, steel and wood?
Which models are the the best higher grade target designs but not the ?
Anyone know anything about early Cooey Canadian models?
Are there real collectables? Folks seem to really jack the price occasionaly and there is no apparent reason to consider the gun as collectible unless NIB. There must have been many many millions of these things built.

[3leggedturtle]

Remington 580 series bolts. Never bought one, but few I have shot were great.

[Blaine]

If you can find an old Win 72 of any iteration, they are priceless without being expensive....Beautiful old .22s....

[jdad]

The Remington 5"teen" series are an often overlooked value.....510,511,512, etc.

[Lefty Dude]

My Remington 581 is a tack driver.This 580 series bolt action is a very fast lock time.
And Yes, the Remington "Teens" are a great buy and also very accurate. They are on an adult frame so to speak.

[North Country Gal]

I collect 22s (as well as other guns

If you want to alter a Cooney, go for it, but please DO NOT TAKE A SAW TO THE STOCK of any old Winchester or even a vintage Remington or Mossberg, I beg you. You may be shocked at what an old Winchester bolt 22 is worth, even one that may appear to be in less than mint condition. In fact, if all you want is a gun to cut up or alter, just get any of the current synthetic stocked 22 bolt guns from Marlin or Savage. They will shoot just as well as most of the old guns and you could buy two of these for what you will pay for a fine, vintage Winchester, Remington or Mossberg, not to mention that both companies offer youth models. They may not look as pretty as the old guns, but they will hold their own in the accuracy department with all but the most expensive vintage target guns.

If you really want a fine old wood and steel gun, though, proceed.

The Winchester 67s (single shots) and the Winchester 69s (magazine fed) are the most common and they were made in a number of variations. The 75s are less common and even more collectible (you aren't likely to get a 75 Sporter cheap). The highest grade Winchester bolts were the 52s and these are always very pricey. All are great guns and fine shooters and, if you buy right, you will have something that will also appreciate in value. You do, however, need to know the subtleties of all the variations and what was and was not original to get one that is truly collectible.

The old Remingtons are a better value if you just want a shooter. They were every bit as good as the old Winchesters as a whole, but have never reached the same collectible status. The 510 series (510,11,12,13) are wonderful guns and can be had for very reasonable prices. My favorite of all the older bolt guns has always been the later 580 series - the 580 single shot, 581 magazine model and the 582 tubular mag model. These used a unique rear locking, multiple lug bolt and had incredibly fast lock times. I have all three and they are spooky accurate guns and will give my high dollar Anschutz 22s a run for the money when it comes to accuracy. You can still find these at reasonable prices, but prices are going up, thanks to their rep for accuracy. The higher end 541 Sporter, which I also have, uses the same action, but also offers an adjustable trigger. These are already running high, though.

Old Mossbergs are real sleepers. Had a 146B as a kid and it was one of the most accurate 22 bolt guns I have owned. Many, many model variations, but don't let anyone tell you these guns don't shoot. A 144 is an amazing 22 target rifle.

All of these, by the way, are wood and steel guns. This is just scratching the surface, by the way, but it should get you some basic idea of where to start.

[new pig hunter]

Earlier this year I picked up an old Mossberg ..... I like it, works great, shoots fantastic !!
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 1&p=593265

Cheers,

Carl

[Tycer]

Thanks for the great post North Country Gal!

[Canuck Bob]

Thanks, specially NCGal,

I am one of those folks who does not worry too much about collectibles. I will however heed your advice if I luck into a real nice condition or higher end model you describe at a reasonable price. Most of the older 22s I've looked at this weekend are rough and ratty condition. I'm sure that is to be expected as 22s are used a lot and passed a couple times to kids for training by now. There are a few that are permanently altered, missing parts, or refinished and these are what I will most likely buy.

I am taking for granted that these guns have very limited collector value. I only understand a bit about collecting levers and the Winchesters in particular. Refinished, drilled, altered reduces these rifles to shooters.

For obvious reasons the Cooey models are dirt cheap and millions were sold here for decades. With the above advice I'll start researching the US models.

[ollogger]

Henry makes a great youth model 22 & its a Lever
years down the road you could most likely put a regular stock on it
30 years ago I bought my son a Mossberg & he still has it, great little gun


ollogger

[Ji in Hawaii]

The new Ruger American 22s look awesome, and they use the 10/22 magazines. MSRP only $329.00!
http://www.ruger.com/intro.html
http://gunblast.com/Ruger-American22.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsDD8nCTaXg

[pdentrem]

I agree about watch what you are looking at. A diamond in the rough does happen.

When you are looking at Cooeys, there is a booklet by Museum Restoration Service called "Cooey Firearms Made In Canada 1919-1979 by John A. Belton. It is # 28 in Historical Arms Series.

Their webpage:
http://www.manatarmsbooks.com/mrs.html

I have many many of their books. They cover a wide range of time periods and topics. Excellent value.

Pierre

[airedaleman]

Are autoloading 22's prohibited in Canada? If not, there are some older guns that might fit your bill. I can elaborate if you wish...

[pdentrem]

Auto loading/selfloading is OK just not full auto. I have a Win 63 and Ruger 1022 for example.
Pierre

[OldWin]

I have a Remington 512. It is very well made and an excellent shooter. Wouldn't mind finding another.

[Hagler]

Bob,

A Savage/ Stevens Model 15/ 15A/ 15B, singleshot rifle is a simple, accurate rifle. I believe that the original Model 15 was more youth-oriented, and the "A" & "B" variants are fullsized. You can find them with either "Stevens" printed on them, "Savage/ Stevens" printed on them, or "Springfield" marked on them, though the Springfield may not be called a Model 15:

http://www.gun-parts.com/savagerifle/Sep13_01.jpg





Shawn

[3leggedturtle]

Hagler I have one of Savage's, uncle bought it new when he 10 or so mid to late 40's. That was story he told me.

[Ji in Hawaii]

I like the Savage Rascal with it's Accutrigger, cock on opening bolt, rear peep sight, and light weight 2.95 pounds, MSRP $225.00
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/rascal
http://www.gunblast.com/Savage-Rascal.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y97CFGzzvDo

[wolfdog]

I am with North country Gal on the Mossberg 144s, every one I ever messed with shot very well indeed.

[Blaine]

I like the Savage Rascal with it's Accutrigger, cock on opening bolt, rear peep sight, and light weight 2.95 pounds, MSRP $225.00
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/rascal
http://www.gunblast.com/Savage-Rascal.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y97CFGzzvDo

Me Like Those triggers are really nice. Once you've had a couple nice triggers, the rest feel like popsicle sticks and rubberbands....

[Pete44ru]

I am taking for granted that these guns have very limited collector value.
I only understand a bit about collecting levers and the Winchesters in particular. Refinished, drilled, altered reduces these rifles to shooters.

Don't take anything for granted, that you might have little experience with - most of the pre-1960 .22's are very collectible, save some junque - even beaters, since their restoration makes a very satisfying project for many astute buyers.

For a youth chop, the above posted advice for the relatively newer (1970's) Remington 580-series is ideal - good material, wood stocks, and fairly accurate.
Yet, even some of those are very collectible - like the ones chambered in the 5mm Remington Magnum Rimfire.

I lucked into a pretty accurate Winchester 69, many years ago - An acquaintance who dabbled in hunting decided it wasn't for him, and gifted it to me.



I'm also sorta partial to a very accurate Belgian Browning T2 Deluxe T-Bolt I ran across a few years ago:




.

[Malamute]

I like older 22's. I was visiting a freind a few years ago. He had a place out of town that was set up to shoot at. He said, "Want to shoot some 22's?". I said "Sure, what do you have?" He had a pantry room in his kitchen that was completely lined with 22's. He put the word out at work (construction) he was looking for cheap 22's, and over a couple years of that and haunting gun shops, had accumulated about 30 22's. He said if he got tired of one, he'd grab another to shoot. Was fun shooting a variety of them when I'd go see him.

[gamekeeper]

I had a Marlin 25M it was inexpensive but very reliable and awesomely accurate for a WMR so I would expect the 25N in .22LR to be a good little rifle too.

[Ji in Hawaii]

One of my "I wish I never sold it" guns is my Armscor model 1400 which I purchased new back in 1985 for $49.00. It was back then sold as a "Concorde" model 1400 imported from the Philippines. It had a rather plain and cheap Philippine Mahogany (Lauan) stock but it came with a wonderful heavy almost bull barrel, and a super smooth 2 pound trigger right out of the box. I put an inexpensive 1" tube Tasco 3 x 9 scope on it, and it was a tack-driver. Head-shots at 30 yards on Francolins using CCI CB Longs was routine. I sold it to a friend to help finance the purchase of my then new Taurus model 62LAR 22LR levergun so the sale was for a good cause but I still miss this tack-driver.

[Merle]

My Remington 581 is a tack driver.This 580 series bolt action is a very fast lock time.
And Yes, the Remington "Teens" are a great buy and also very accurate. They are on an adult frame so to speak.

I'll second the 581!

[m.wun]

A new rifle that is good quality with nice wood and all steel are the CZ bolt guns.Not the cheapest but feel like a gun of yesteryear.

[Indigo22]

This last winter I made a trade for a Stevens Model 56 Buckhorn. It took a little work to get it into shape as it had been stored in the back of a closet for 20+ years.
These rifles are well built and amazing sleepers on the target range. Surprised quite a few folks.

[Michaux]

My first self-bought rifle was a Remington 581 back in '71-72 and it's still in service. My son's first rifle was a 581, an honest 1/4-1/2" 5 shot rifle at 50 yds. with lowly Win. T-22's and a cheap 3x9 scope. Bought my nephew a 581, crazy accurate with Win. Power Points. My brother and his two boys have 581's.....You will not go wrong with one and when you find the ammo it likes and learn the trigger it'll shoot like a target rifle....Yep, I'd go with a Remington 581 Be patient and you'll find a nice one for around $200.

Michaux

[AJMD429]

I have several accurate reliable 22 LR bolt actions. None particularly valuable and none junk. Dunno if you have anything against 'recent' (1980-2000) vintage but my Marlin 25's have been reliable and accurate. The kids now have inherited them (even though I aint dead yet )

I also have two Ruger 77's. One is a stainless Ruger 77'/22 that never misses and with its NECG peep is rainproof as well. My wood/blued 77/22 is more 'classic' looking I guess, but I put a Green Mountain bull barrel on it for more accuracy.

P.S. - I nearly forgot about the Savage but added about it below.

Anyhow all have been fun, accurate, and reliable, if you don't mind them not being 'old'...

[Canuck Bob]

One thing this did is point out that there are some tired jewels available out there. I'm bookmarking this for future reference. As a lefty I'll keep an eye out for a lefty 581 if it is affordable but they don't seem plentiful. They remind me of the lefty 788 another bucket list rifle for my empty bucket.

There are also some interesting older Cooey/Winchesters made in Canada and decent rifles in large numbers. There are a number of fellow Canadians fixing these things up as a hobby. My girls will be getting one each to refurb when the time is right for a powder burner. I started shooting on one many years ago called a Rabbit .22. There were also some rebadged Anschutz/CIL (Canadian Industries Limited) that are affordable. As a lefty options are limited for a left bolt but that hardly seems necessary for a 22.

I found a Winchester 9422 for a decent price after all.

[Paladin]

This is the latest .22 I have gotten to use as a beater. It has a 16in fluted barrel threaded (1/2x28), accutrigger, 5 RD mag, a rail to mount a scope, oversized bolt knob, and a plastic stock (that I finished painting last Saturday). It was under the price you were looking for with a great reputation for accuracy.

[Canuck Bob]

Paladin, the little Savage actually comes in a lefty and is made here in Canada. They are amazingly affordable and come with a accu-trigger of sorts. I have a friend who has a heavy barrel 17HMR with a thumbhole laminate stock and it is accurate. If I ever buy a 17HRM that is my first choice. We live in gopher heaven here.

[AJMD429]

The Savages are great. Especially with the threaded barrel. Even adding a long 'AR' type flash suppressor to one not only protects the muzzle from dirt and dings if you let a kid use it, but makes for less harsh noise and with sub sonics it is very nice.

Adding a real 'can' costs more but down the road if you spend the money for one (and the infernal $200 tax ), you'll save $75 it would cost to thread it later.

My Savage is what I keep my infrared 'night' scope on and with the Mystic suppressor (actually a "9mm" can) I can pop whatever varmint(s) get into my chickens or the pea-patch without scattering their partners in crime... Haven't caught a coyote in the farmyard yet with it, though...

Again, not sure if the goal was just an economic shooter, or more of a nostalgic one.

Also I suppose Canada has different laws about suppressors, but don't know if they are as easy as in England or even if you'd want one. I will say they as NICE if you train kids or newbies, as they totally eliminate the flinch factor from the noise that many folks get.

In fact as a kid-teaching gun don't forget about the option of just getting a 22 LR adapter kit for an AR, if you have one (again I don't know Canada laws). The nice thing About that as a 'kids' gun is that the high line of sight is easier than scrunching down so low the way kids have to with most 22's supposedly made for young shooters. Part of that is the stocks are WAY too long on those guns; the collapsible stock on an AR in the shortest position is about perfect for them. Plus they are super rugged (kid proof ) due to winged sights, tough finishes, and whatever device is on the threaded muzzle. Not to mention that removing the adapter gives them an instant 'real' gun for when they are older. Dunno if doable in Canada, but other thread readers might want to consider that route if the "22 LR" purpose is for a kid's instruction or gift. (Plus - every time a grownup gives a good kid a gift like that, a hoplophobic Democrat politician somewhere clots off another artery due to the stress... )

[Gunnin'Wreck]

I would add my endorsement of the Savage Youth Model to some of the posts already listed. I bought one a few years ago for my grandchildren to learn on, and found it to be remarkably accurate, had a great trigger (which is not that common on cheap 22's) and easily kept up with a number of adult-sized rifles costing several times what the Savage set me back. It is a wood and blued steel firearm and could easily be modified if needed. Outstanding rifle for beginners.