how pointy is too pointy?

[KWK]

Round and flat nose bullets are the rule for tube magazines, of course, but how pointy is too pointy? Say I want to use some Partitions. Would cutting off the exposed lead tip to leave a small flat point likely be safe? Opinions, please.

Karl

[Sixgun]

You want the tip of the bullet flat enough so that it contacts the brass around the primer.----Sixgun

[AJMD429]

You want the tip of the bullet flat enough so that it contacts the brass around the primer.----Sixgun

Yep...and EVEN IF IT IS A BIT 'COCKEYED' in the magazine...

Also, if you missed the recent kaboom topic, DON'T drop the rounds down a long magazine-tube, nor slam home a removable follower.

Plus, I might be willing to shoot a 24" barreled 357 Mag levergun with light 38-special loads with a jacketed Spitzer, with only a couple rounds in the tubular magazine, but even two rounds in the magazine and a marginally small meplat on a lead 454 Casull hot-load out of a light Rossi carbine would make me VERY nervous.

[piller]

I have not done it, but it does seem to me that any pointy bullet not designed specifically for a tubular magazine cartridge would be an accidental discharge waiting to happen. I would like some different bullets for my .30-30 just for fun, but I am not sure I like the idea of being limited to 1 in the chamber and 1 in the magazine only. Maybe if I practiced some more...

[earlmck]

There's always a wise*** in the crowd and I frequently fill that niche. So here I must point out that in the recent magazine detonation that Sixgun reported on, the bullet was a wide flat nose. And the nasty one that muskeg13 reported to us last year was also one with a wide flat-nosed bullet. Maybe it is hard-cast flat-nosed bullets that are the problem; I've never heard any reliable report of magazine detonation from use of a pointy bullet, which has it's little pointy nose formed from soft lead.

Yes, I know that 6 generations of gun writers have warned us not to use pointy bullets and you can't possibly buck that kind of horse power. But just sayin' it like I see it, you know?

[piller]

Earl, you might be right. As I said, I have not tried it.

[El Chivo]

don't most cast bullets have a mold mark right in the center of the nose? So if there's a little too much extra lead there, it can act as a firing pin?

[Griff]

don't most cast bullets have a mold mark right in the center of the nose? So if there's a little too much extra lead there, it can act as a firing pin?

If they do, your technique needs improving or your mold blocks are no longer aligned. Get a better grip on the handles to keep the blocks together, fix the blocks or do a little touch-up on the bullets. That slag will seriously affect a bullet's flight characteristics!

The simple answer is: They're too pointy with one sets off the round in front of it. Until then, you're fine. I just prefer not being the one to cross that threshold. If you want to use a partition, go ahead... Make it the last round you load in the rifle... Load FN or RN for the rest of them.

[AJMD429]

If you want to use a partition, go ahead... Make it the last round you load in the rifle... Load FN or RN for the rest of them.

Make it the FIRST round (i.e. front of the tube) if you're using a receiver loading-gate type gun.
Make it the LAST round (i.e. front of the tube) if you're using a tube-loading port out near the muzzle.

[Pisgah]

A number of years ago I read an extensive article in which the author tried many pointed bullets in an attempt to get a magazine explosion. It happened -- but only after he got to pointed FMJ bullets. Bottom line, try as he might he could not cause an explosion with any lead-tipped bullet, even very pointed ones.

Now -- does this mean I would load up a bunch of pointy bullets and go on my merry way? No, sir! Common sense tells you that any whack to a primer with any pointy object may lead to disaster, unless it is a downright spongy tip, indeed (a la LeverEvolution). Flat-points are safest, and below-flush-seated primers a must. No problem with pointy bullets, of course, with a one-in-mag-one-in-chamber scenario, and if you feel the pointy-bullet performance warrants using them, the limitation to 2 shots is no deer-hunting handicap whatsoever.

[hfcable]

A number of years ago I read an extensive article in which the author tried many pointed bullets in an attempt to get a magazine explosion. It happened -- but only after he got to pointed FMJ bullets. Bottom line, try as he might he could not cause an explosion with any lead-tipped bullet, even very pointed ones.

Now -- does this mean I would load up a bunch of pointy bullets and go on my merry way? No, sir! Common sense tells you that any whack to a primer with any pointy object may lead to disaster, unless it is a downright spongy tip, indeed (a la LeverEvolution). Flat-points are safest, and below-flush-seated primers a must. No problem with pointy bullets, of course, with a one-in-mag-one-in-chamber scenario, and if you feel the pointy-bullet performance warrants using them, the limitation to 2 shots is no deer-hunting handicap whatsoever.

i remember reading that also. was a pretty extensive test. on the other hand , i am not one to tempt fate, and if i tried this, it would be with light recoiling rounds, like maybe a 25/35 etc

[earlmck]

A number of years ago I read an extensive article in which the author tried many pointed bullets in an attempt to get a magazine explosion. It happened -- but only after he got to pointed FMJ bullets. Bottom line, try as he might he could not cause an explosion with any lead-tipped bullet, even very pointed ones.

I believe I read the same article you read, Pisgah. The article I'm remembering, the fellow held the bullet against the primer of a case held in a vise and whacked the bullet with a hammer to see if he could achieve ignition. He never did get ignition to occur in a magazine tube (in fact, I don't think he even tried that -- he was just seeing which bullet shapes could act as a firing pin substitute. A few years ago I did a similar exercise but used a spring arrangement to drive my firing mechanism (with a fish de-liar scale so I could see how much "whack" the various primer brands required). FMJ and also JHP with little bitty noses could effectively act as firing pins, but I couldn't get ignition with a spitzer (in fact, spitzers rapidly become round-noses when you give them a hefty "whack")

I went ahead and tried to get ignition to occur within the magazine tube without success. http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... ty+bullets

I had long quit worrying about the shape of bullet I use for the levers. One load I like uses 110 grain Speer spitzers in the 30/30 and the other uses 180 grain Hornady spitzers in the 35 Remington. But the info that came out of Sixgun's recent post on the Henry explosion got me wondering if maybe you occasionally get a super-sensitive primer produced by the primer-making factory. At which point all bets may be off!

[BigSky56]

Iam with Earl a soft lead tip wont fire a primer have tested it my self with a SP and a shoeing hammer on a primed case. Yeah gun writers probably the same ones that discounted WFN wouldnt kill animals in pistol rounds, hows that working for them. Dont believe the gun writers and dont believe me test it for yourself. theres a whole lot of truth in the motto of the "show me state". That said I like the FN because they kill better than SP or RN, just like a FN in a pistol cartridge a FN in a rifle works. danny

[Longrange308]

What about the use of magnum primers? They typically have a much thicker cup and resist detonating unless a lot of direct force is applied.

It's like inducing a slam fire Ina floating firing pin type weapon. You don't want to use soft primers in a garand or m1a, so you use magnum or mil-spec primers...

Am I missing something or does this seem like a reasonable cure for the pointy bullet/magazine tube situation?

[msmith1228]

I wouldn't do it. It's just not worth the risk.

[Canuck Bob]

The Speer 30-30 and 32 Special bullets have a smaller tip that could help sizing them. Paco writes about clipping bullet tips for his levers but I don't remember any details. One thing I considered was if the tip was lead or the raw edge of the jacket. It seems that lead makes a poor firing pin but I wonder about the harder bullet jacket cased tip.

I haven't done it yet but will and a tip greater than the primer pocket is my plan with proper depth primers. A flat tip bullet makes an outstanding hunting bullet only limited in some range. I figure 100 paces is about it for me in sporting situations anyway.

Also, if available, Nosler makes a Partition for the 30-30 already.

[KWK]

It seems to me I've read about that one fellow's experiments with tube magazines. I think it was in a Gun Digest, perhaps; I'll check my notebook.

One thought I've had -- you may laugh -- was to pull the plastic tip off the spitzer du jour and dip the nose in caulk to give a soft bead on the nose. It would also be testing the theory that the trueness of base of the bullet is more important than of the nose.

As for recoil, I'm thinking about a .25 or a 6, so the recoil forces in the tube wouldn't be so much.

Thanks for all the opinions,
Karl