50 years of Zulu

perry owens · Post by **perry owens** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:55 pm

This month sees the 50th anniversary of the premier of the film Zulu. Made in a time when political correctness wasn't an industry, violence didn't have to be graphic to make a point and having an empire wasn't something to be ashamed of, it's still as popular today as ever. I hate to think what a Hollywood remake would be like. I shall have to get out my Martini Henry to hold while I watch it tonight.

Perry Owens

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:15 pm

You nailed it - almost like Blazing Saddles, it's a movie that couldn't be made today.
It has already been remade - Zulu Dawn (1979) doesn't come close to Zulu (1964)

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:18 pm

.

Any interested in the altercations, etc, in South Africa, Zulu's, etc, can get an interesting read from any of the plethora of fictional books by Wilbur Smith ( http://www.wilbursmithbooks.com/books/courtney ) - which have the ring of reality in their background information, if not in the plot(s).

I've only read about 8 of them, so far - and have found them to be very entertaining, in the details.

.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:15 pm

I just watched Zulu the other night. Fine, fine film in all respects. In yesteryear, our unit merged with a Brit unit for a month or so. The parties were historic, and, down by the park by the lake, a couple Brits treated Ft Lewis to The Zulu War Dance complete with flaming newpaper roll between the cheeks of his bumm.....

The MPs were not amused

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:02 pm

just watched the movie ZULU two weeks ago...great flick...wouldn't want to get that tribal community pee-oed at me though...tough warriors... :O

QCI Winchesters · Post by **QCI Winchesters** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:37 pm

I am lucky enough to own an original British Martini-Henry Mk. II, made in 1877. My wife thinks I am strange when I fix bayonets while watching "Zulu".

"MUST you have that pointy thing on the end of your gun? You are going to stab the ceiling some day!"

Ragnor · Post by **Ragnor** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:14 pm

Just watched it the other night. Must be the Zulu time of year.

soon 2 retire · Post by **soon 2 retire** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:30 pm

My favorite part was when the Brits sang "Men of Harlech" in answer to the chanting of the Zulus. "Men of Harlech" is a very stirring song.

Bob in Friday Harbor

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:54 pm

Man, you guys have to watch the movie "Zulu". I see it first hand everyday.......in person!

perry owens · Post by **perry owens** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:55 pm

QCI Winchesters wrote:I am lucky enough to own an original British Martini-Henry Mk. II, made in 1877. My wife thinks I am strange when I fix bayonets while watching "Zulu". "MUST you have that pointy thing on the end of your gun? You are going to stab the ceiling some day!"

Better get her one of these in case you bring the ceiling down

Perry Owens

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:36 pm

From what I understand Zulu Dawn was a bit more historically correct for the gear, but both movies are good.

The descendants of the Zulu impis attacking in real life were the Zulu warriors shown in the movie Zulu, and they took it seriously, as they were portraying the actions of their grandfathers and great-grandfathers.

QCI Winchesters · Post by **QCI Winchesters** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:44 pm

MrMurphy wrote:From what I understand Zulu Dawn was a bit more historically correct for the gear, but both movies are good.

The descendants of the Zulu impis attacking in real life were the Zulu warriors shown in the movie Zulu, and they took it seriously, as they were portraying the actions of their grandfathers and great-grandfathers.

"Zulu Dawn" had the soldiers using cavalry carbines.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:02 pm

QCI Winchesters wrote:I am lucky enough to own an original British Martini-Henry Mk. II, made in 1877. My wife thinks I am strange when I fix bayonets while watching "Zulu". "MUST you have that pointy thing on the end of your gun? You are going to stab the ceiling some day!"

Sounds like my house!

Volley fire is a lost art.

jb

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:29 pm

Hadn't seen Zulu Dawn in some years, I meant their personal equipment.

Since in Zulu, Michael Caine was running around with a Webley Mk VI.......

The movie Four Feathers (Heath Ledger movie) while it didn't do awesome in the theaters, probably had the last live-fire volleys you'll see of Martini-Henrys in use considering how old they are, seeing a square in action was still worth the $7 back then.

QCI Winchesters · Post by **QCI Winchesters** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:01 pm

MrMurphy wrote:Hadn't seen Zulu Dawn in some years, I meant their personal equipment.

Since in Zulu, Michael Caine was running around with a Webley Mk VI.......

The movie Four Feathers (Heath Ledger movie) while it didn't do awesome in the theaters, probably had the last live-fire volleys you'll see of Martini-Henrys in use considering how old they are, seeing a square in action was still worth the $7 back then.

The 1939 version of "The Four Feathers" was pretty awesome, too. "FRONT RANK, KNEEL!" Finding all those Lee-Metfords must have been no small feat, even in 1939.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:29 pm

Been decades since I watched any of the Zulu films... but I have always had a fondness for the iklwa... Almost more useful than the Gladiuus or Spatha (depending on terrain...)

A modern variant...

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:42 am

Not necessarily more useful, just a different way to achieve the same objective.

A gladius was (by training) a stabbing sword, but could also cut. An assegai or iklwa was a stabbing short spear, but I don't see one doing cuts or slashes terribly well.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:51 am

MrMurphy wrote:Not necessarily more useful, just a different way to achieve the same objective.

A gladius was (by training) a stabbing sword, but could also cut. An assegai or iklwa was a stabbing short spear, but I don't see one doing cuts or slashes terribly well.

Like I said. "almost", and depending on terrain.

I personally prefer a Gladius, but where a Gladius is a better meele wepon, an assegai or iklwa has a bit better reach and can actually be thrown. They are also more useful for hunting than a Gladius.

One on One, the fighting styles would be essentially the same and there would be no clear advantage.

In a Formation, the Gladius Wins.

piller · Post by **piller** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:56 pm

Some people are born tacticians.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:52 pm

I remember seeing this movie for the first time. We lived on base housing in Japan and the guy who ran the theater was a friend of the family so he would preview movies at home first before showing at the base theater. Our family watched it at his home with his family several days before everyone else, and for free.

Always impressed with the intimidation factor of all the Zulu warriors drumming on their shields and chanting in unison. Cool movie. Zulu Dawn also an awesome movie but not a remake of Zulu completely different battle one the British lost.

yooper2 · Post by **yooper2** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:34 pm

Ha! It must be that time of year as the Lady and I just watched this the other night too. Sadly, I'm still looking for a M-H with a good bore that I can afford so I contented myself with holding the popcorn.

Eric

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:18 pm

bulldog1935 wrote:You nailed it - almost like Blazing Saddles, it's a movie that couldn't be made today.
It has already been remade - Zulu Dawn (1979) doesn't come close to Zulu (1964)

That's amazing; I just watched them both, Zulu Dawn on Jan 2 and Zulu on December 9.

Zulu Dawn is not exactly a remake; it covers the action in which the British were massacred, whereas Zulu covers the second action (on the same day I believe) where a smaller group of Brits was surrounded and drove them off. I believe it was the same group of Zulus, in the movie some had rifles picked up from the British.

Zulu Dawn was still made a while ago; I noticed Bob Hoskins as a young man with a jet black beard.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:28 pm

The battles are Islandwhana (massacre of Brits who should have been able to hold) and Rorke's Drift, the single largest award of Victoria Crosses for one action in history, who should have been overrun, but due to good tactics, lots of supplies and firepower, didn't.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:48 pm

yeah, the part about Islandwhana that stays with me is the scenes with the quartermaster doling out ammunition one box at a time while the Zulus are overrunning the line.

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:20 pm

Outstanding movies.

Don

QCI Winchesters · Post by **QCI Winchesters** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:51 am

Here are a few pics of my M-H Mk. II, and one of my Snider. Neither of which are crumby relics from Nepal, I might add. Sorry for the poor pics, I was going to get my wife to pose with them but she is in bed, still getting over that nasty H1N1 virus and needs lots of rest.

perry owens · Post by **perry owens** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:33 am

Here's mine

It's a long lever model so post-Zulu. The Snider is by John Rigby.

Perry Owens

QCI Winchesters · Post by **QCI Winchesters** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:20 am

I had the Mk.IV too, but it shot a few feet to the left so I traded it off years ago. I have owned 7 Sniders, but I am down to just one. Nice DC marked one. (Dominion of Canada)

BruceB · Post by **BruceB** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:41 pm

bulldog1935 wrote:You nailed it - almost like Blazing Saddles, it's a movie that couldn't be made today.
It has already been remade - Zulu Dawn (1979) doesn't come close to Zulu (1964)

"Zulu Dawn" is not a remake of "Zulu". It actually chronicles the Battle of Islandwana that preceded the siege of Rorke's Drift. The engineer character, Lt John Chard, had come to Rorke's Drift from the "main column" that was wiped out at Islandwana and ended up commanding at Rorke's Drift.
"Zulu" was made to celebrate the heroism of Rorke's Drift, while "Zulu Dawn" was made as a slap at government.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:55 am

I have both of these in my NEtflix queue available instantly online --- one of the tv's is rigged straight up out of the box with the software for it too ---- so i may give them a look see today

Chronologically, which one to watch first? I just assumed Zulu would come first since it is the oldest, but IDK (or does it even matter)

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:21 pm

The massacre of Islandwhana led to the successful defense of Rorke's Drift.

More or less a whole British army got hammered at Islandwhana. A small detachment which should have been wiped out successfully avoided it at Rorke's Drift. Good, rapid planning, a supply base (no ammo shortage) and discipline held. Even then, a lot of luck.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:42 pm

Been years since I have seen it, bit did'nt one ( or more ) of the Brits make good long shots on the Zulus?

JB · Post by JB » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:52 pm

Great movie, but not accurate as far as firearms. Along with the historically correct Martinis, you'll see Enfield rifles and Webley Mk IV's that weren't around for the real battle.

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:05 pm

The yet-to-be-invented Lee Enfields gave the defenders a distinct firepower advantage.

Old No7 · Post by **Old No7** » Wed May 25, 2016 6:21 pm

Bringing back an older post...

I just watched "Zulu, the 50th Anniversary Edition" Blu-ray this evening, and it was great!

OK, maybe that's because I like Martini single shots and Webley top-breaks!

Or maybe it's just because I enjoy a good war movie and decent movies about actual events.

What really surprised me though................................

Was just HOW GREAT the conversion from film, to CD, to Blu-ray was done!! Wow!

The scenery was magnificent (filmed "on location" in Natal) and all the details and action were sharp and crisp, even on a large 60"+ flat screen TV. I was pleasantly surprised on how good it showed up. Very surprised, actually!

Anyway... If you haven't seen it, or don't know much about the battle, down below I pasted in some info about it. Enjoy!

"Volley fire by ranks! First rank..."

Tight groups!

Old No7

Info Posted on Amazon by a top-rated reviewer:

Zulu is one of the greatest historical action movies ever made, and one of the great war movies. It is based on what historian Michael Glover terms "the most highly decorated battle in British history", the defence of Rorke's Drift during the Zulu War of 1879. Eleven of the defenders received Britain's highest award for military valor, the Victoria Cross--the rarely awarded counterpart of the US Medal of Honor. The movie is a landmark in the art of cinema for its extraordinary combination of location, cross-cultural engagement, a real story, good script, fine cast and great production team. This 1964 film never looks tired, despite my many years of rerunning it in 16mm, the Criterion laserdisc, later the Front Row Entertainment Inc. DVD, and then the Paramount DVD and Blu-ray discs. Anecdotally, military colleges have used Zulu to show the power of directed massed musketry, and leadership and teamwork in combat.

Zulu is the greatest achievement of the career of British actor Stanley Baker, who co-produced with US-born, formerly blacklisted director Cy Endfield. Nothing else in the genre really measures up, including Endfield's so-called "prequel", Zulu Dawn, or other epics based on British colonial wars, such as Khartoum. It was filmed on location in the grandeur of Natal, South Africa, with descendants of the Zulu warriors who took part in the original action portraying their forebears. The prominent Zulu politician and traditional chief, Mangosuthu Buthelezi, plays the Zulu leader, his distant relative Cetewayo. Mass Zulu participation in the project guaranteed the uplifting dignity and authenticity of cross-cultural characterisations of the film. Early magnificent scenes with masses of Zulu extras show the Zulu royal kraal, with a mass wedding of warriors in progress as news arrives of the annihilation of a strong British force at Isandhlwana. These unique scenes probably never could be filmed again because of social and cultural change. The nearest conceptual comparison in the war genre that comes to mind is the cross-cultural aspect of Tora! Tora! Tora!

Stanley Baker believed so strongly in Zulu, despite difficulties in raising finance, that he sank much of his own money into it. Playing a British Army engineer officer thrust by events into leading a desperate defensive action following the disaster of Isandhlwana, he heads a strong cast, including a young Michael Caine as an upper crust infantry officer. There are wonderful cameo roles by Jack Hawkins as an alcoholic missionary; Nigel Green as the imperturbable Colour Sergeant Bourne, always ready with a calming order or a bayonet; James Booth as Private Hook, portrayed (controversially to his descendants) as a malingerer who is perhaps the least likely Victoria Cross winner; Patrick Magee as Surgeon Reynolds, continuing up to his elbows in surgery even as Zulus try to break in. The narration by Richard Burton is very fine, and in character with the Welsh origin of the British soldiers. Welsh and Zulu singing on the cinematic battlefield is spine-tingling. As John Bender says in his attached comment, the musical score by John Barry enhances the grandeur and drama.

Michael Glover's 1997 book, Rorke's Drift (Wordsworth Military Library) is recommended reading for anyone with a detailed interest in the historical background. Amazon stocks several other titles related to the Zulu Wars that I can't vouch for, but that other reviewers have rated highly.

Alan and Peter Critchley launched in 2000 an informative "Rorke's Drift VC, 1879" military history enthusiasts' website which can be found by online searches. The website has extensive information I've seen nowhere else about the actual historical personalities portrayed in the film. This includes a magazine article published in 1905 about the account Alfred Henry "Harry" Hook VC (1850-1905) gave of the battle of Rorke's Drift; an account of the battle by Surgeon-Major James Henry Reynolds VC (1844-1932) published in 1928 by the Journal of the Royal Army Medical Corps; and a transcript of a radio broadcast in 1936 by Lieutenant Colonel Frank Bourne OBE, DCM (1854-1945) - who was the real Colour Sergeant Bourne played by Nigel Green in the movie.

The filming location used the escarpment of the Drakensberg mountain range as a backdrop - a more picturesque setting than the actual battlefield. The actual site of Rorke's Drift, only about 100 miles northeast of the filming location, can be seen in satellite imagery and visitor photos in Google Earth at coordinates 28°21'0.00"S, 30°32'0.00"E . Although the actual battlefield was not in the film, it is a tribute to the production that fans of the movie may be surprised by how familiar and understandable the terrain appears.

This film originally was released in 70mm. It deserved the very best frame-by-frame and soundtrack digital restoration and DVD transfer that technology can provide, working from original material. It finally received that treatment, first with Paramount and MGM DVD releases about 2002, then with Paramount's Zulu [Blu-ray] in 2008. See attached expert comment by John Sellars dated Sep 29, 2011 10:10:40 AM PDT for technical background drawn from his work on these transfers. I could not now recommend any releases of Zulu other than these from Paramount and MGM. The Paramount Blu-ray release of Zulu is magnificent in every respect. Colour is vibrant; detail sharper than any previous video release; sound excellent. Extra features and interviews, including extended commentary by second unit director Robert Porter, round off a Blu-ray disc that every enthusiast for this great film will want to own.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed May 25, 2016 7:01 pm

QCI Winchesters wrote:I am lucky enough to own an original British Martini-Henry Mk. II, made in 1877. My wife thinks I am strange when I fix bayonets while watching "Zulu". "MUST you have that pointy thing on the end of your gun? You are going to stab the ceiling some day!"

Just like you HAVE to have your cap and ball pistols out if you watch Josie Wales, or your 338 Lapua out if you watch Shooter...

cas · Post by **cas** » Wed May 25, 2016 7:17 pm

QCI Winchesters wrote:
MrMurphy wrote:

The movie Four Feathers (Heath Ledger movie)....
The 1939 version of "The Four Feathers" was pretty awesome, too. "FRONT RANK, KNEEL!" Finding all those Lee-Metfords must have been no small feat, even in 1939.

IIRC there are at least SEVEN versions of that movie/story.

I liked the latest one, visually for sure. It missed being a "great" movie, but I enjoy it. Though there are critics (and I don't mean movie critics) who rip it to shreds.

"Martini's and Webley's and Sniders, Oh my!"

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Wed May 25, 2016 7:50 pm

Let's get one thing straight ... It's Martin' Enry!!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed May 25, 2016 8:58 pm

I thought "Zulu" was on Fox News tonight but it was only a Black Lives Matter protest at a Trump rally.----6

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed May 25, 2016 10:15 pm

Sixgun wrote:I thought "Zulu" was on Fox News tonight but it was only a Black Lives Matter protest at a Trump rally.----6

You are SO bad.....

JB wrote:Great movie, but not accurate as far as firearms. Along with the historically correct Martinis, you'll see Enfield rifles and Webley Mk IV's that weren't around for the real battle.

The June 2016 American Rifleman I just got in the mail yesterday has an article on the firearms of the Boer Wars, and it was quite interesting.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Thu May 26, 2016 9:59 am

This film, and "The Great Escape," were probably the two most transfixing movies of my young life. I have a dodgy old DVD of "Zulu" that I have watched many dozen times. I have owned, loaded for and shot Sniders, Martinis and Webleys. Still have my foreign service helmet. And if you want a T-shirt featuring Colour Sgt. Bourne saying "Keep Calm and Fix Bayonets," Tum Tatty will fix you up here:

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/ ... 0cPG2aCbds

Doc, I was amused to see that piece on Boer weapons in the Rifleman as well, as I only recently found a near-mint Model 1895 Mauser. Alas, no OVS above the serial ...