Military gun collection

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:40 pm

Considering starting a collection of well-known military guns. Most of them guns used by our country but some others from other countries.

So far my list goes:

Springfield 58 cal like used in Civil War
Springfield bolt gun like used in WW1
Springfield Trap Door carbine 45-70 like used at Custer's "Battle Of The Little Bighorn."
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
M 16--actually a very close copy--and what would that be?
M 14 like I used during my military days
Most popular gun used by U.S. troops during Revolutionary War. Kentucky Rifle or same as?
German 8mm, 98 Mauser carbine (Not so much for a German gun but more for it's quality & history.)
Schmidt Rubin with neat straight pull bolt--pretty lethal cartridge too.

What's missing? Several, I'm sure. Would be a real fun bunch of guns, for sure!

Came back to add British Enfield Jungle carbine. Hold 10 rounds, I hear.

Don

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:00 pm

I wish I'd have done that back when I was younger and the were cheap and everywhere.
Maybe throw in a Jap Arisaka and a 91/30 Mosin.
Also a Krag to go between your Trapdoor and an 1903/1903A3 Springfield.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:26 pm

getitdone1 wrote: M 16--actually a very close copy--and what would that be?
M 14 like I used during my military days
--
German 8mm, 98 Mauser carbine (Not so much for a German gun but more for it's quality & history.)

M-16 -- A Colt SP1 would likely be the closest without paying 12k for the real deal class 3 item
M-14 -- Springfield M1A probably the easiest route , -- but someone else may be able to answer -- were the Norinco's more fiaithful copies of the originals, or is there a more "authentic" copy than an M1A ?

-- for a shooter MAuser - personally i'd go with one from Mitchell's Mausers -- but hardcore collectors frown on them

-- have fun

----- the only one in your list i have practical experience with are the 16's
I built my own "M16" using a surplus Colt Air Force M-16 604 complete upper and barrel , and just plonked it down on an A2 lower---- its a fun shooter --- i'd be a little happier with it if i could blend the colors between the upper and lower a little better, but i'm not going to send it out for anodizing, i'd rather procure a retro lower receiver from Nodak-Spud when or if their backlog comes down
-------- to me , something like this is closer to an issue weapon than even an SP-1Colt, -- because the upper was an issue weapon, -- but the Colt has some unique civilian-only features in their lower receiver that aren't present on their military contract stuff
-- but Colts are like pretty redheads - i wouldnt kick one out of bed for a few flaws

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:03 pm

A parallel collection of HANDGUNS would be cool, as well...

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:15 pm

getitdone1 wrote:Considering starting a collection of well-known military guns. Most of them guns used by our country but some others from other countries.

So far my list goes:

Springfield 58 cal like used in Civil War-- Replicas easily available
Springfield bolt gun like used in WW1 --- MUCH harder to find than they once were for under a grand. You might have to settle for the WW2 version, the M1903A3
Springfield Trap Door carbine 45-70 like used at Custer's "Battle Of The Little Bighorn." Originals and replicas exist.
M1 Garand -- Not as easy to find these days, but if you're looking for shooter, not collector grade, it can be done.
M1 Carbine -- stay away from Universal and Iver Johnson, they're not original.
M 16--actually a very close copy--and what would that be? - M16A1, a Nodak Spud would be the closest. M16A2, any current AR set up the correct way (20" barrel, standard handguard and fixed carry handle). For an M4, a Colt 6920 is the civilian equivalent, it has an extra 1.5" of barrel and is missing the Group Therapy option, otherwise, they're about as close as you can get. The M4 is the current issue carbine for the Army and USAF (depending on job). M16A4 is a flat-top receiver M16A2 with a KAC rail, so you can clone that fairly easily as well. The USMC is the primary issuer of the M16A4.
M 14 like I used during my military days -- Springfield M1A or Fulton Armory
Most popular gun used by U.S. troops during Revolutionary War. Most Popular U.S gun in the Revolution would be the Brown Bess (Same as the Brits) or later the French Charleville, which we copied as the first Springfield Armory muskets.
German 8mm, 98 Mauser carbine (Not so much for a German gun but more for it's quality & history.) Any military Mauser still in original form, the Yugo M48A (postwar, but still the same basic design) would be inexpensive.
Schmidt Rubin with neat straight pull bolt--pretty lethal cartridge too.

What's missing? Several, I'm sure. Would be a real fun bunch of guns, for sure!

I'd add the Lee-Enfield in either SMLE (No.1 Mk III) version used in both WW1 and WW2, or the No.4 Mk1 (used in WW2 and Korea). The Jungle Carbine was never made in large numbers and never overly popular to shoot due to the heavy recoil and wandering zero compared to the full size rifles (I own both).

Don

If you can find one in usable shape, a M1892 through M1898 Krag-Jorgensen from the Spanish American war would fit the collection.

gak · Post by **gak** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:59 pm

The Johnson semi auto in .30-06 (US.30 cal) ...used by the Marines in lieu if the Garand early in WWII in the Pacific Theater. IIRC, used a internal rotary mag.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:04 pm

Yes, fed by Springfield clips.

Depending who you talked to, either the best or worst rifle ever conceived. Being recoil operated, had issues with bayonets. I've handled ONE Johnson in nearly 20 years of looking around to even find one to check out. They weren't common then, didn't last long in service, and definitely aren't common now.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:19 pm

A Savage Enfield is always nice.

The other gun I like most of all, but didn't see much military service is the 71/84 Mauser in 11mm/43 Mauser. I first handled one of these in Mic McPherson's garage many years ago, and it was immediately noticeable it was something special. A bolt action repeater with a bypassable tube mag. It could be fired single shot, or using the tube mag. The fit and finish of these rifles was considered one of the "high water marks" of military craftsmanship. I have used mine with a custom loaded 485 grain bullet to bust the Billy Dixon target at 1538 yards multiple times using its stock iron sights. How do you even compare to that???

They aren't cheap anymore, but they are an incredible rifle companion if you can handload.

-Tutt

wolfdog · Post by **wolfdog** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:02 pm

A 1917.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:21 pm

Wasn't the "Brown Bess" also prevalent amongst the colonial troops? Two options for a Civil War would be either an 1863 Zouave musket or the Sharp's 1863 carbine.

And for the Spanish-American War, a Winchester 1895 in .30 US as used by Teddy's Rough Riders would be cool!

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:22 pm

As far as the American Revolutionary War is concerned, I believe your proposed collection would be served well by a good reproduction of the French Charleville musket, imported in large numbers for use by American troops, or perhaps the Brown Bess musket as used by the British troops. Both are large caliber smoothbore flintlock arms equipped with a long bayonet.

SHASTA

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:37 pm

Thanks for so many great replies. I don't know for sure if I'll buy all of those guns I mentioned but I'll be buying some of them for sure.

The 98 Mauser carbine I seen recently at a gun auction really appealed to me. I knew for sure I was looking at quality and reliability. I didn't even know, till them, you could get it in a carbine. 8mm but did not check to see what country it was made in. The Enfield Jungle Carbine there also caught my eye.

Same for the H&K model 770--but that's a different subject. Auction lasted so long that I refused to wait for hours until these came-up for auction. Next time I'll time my arrival close to the time of day guns that interest me will be sold. That auction lasted nearly 12 hours ! Over 1000 guns.

Don

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:57 pm

Mosin Nagant rifles are a necessity in any military rifle collection.
There are about ten must haves on Mosins with several more ought to haves.

Stan in SC

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:24 pm

Mauser carbines (not the German issue 98K) are from many nations, generally they were cavalry or engineer carbines.

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:35 pm

Griff, the 1st U.S. Volunteer Cavalry Regiment was NOT armed with Model 1895 Winchesters. They were issued Model 1896 Krag carbines, much to the chagrin of volunteer infantry units. The volunteer infantry were issued Trapdoor Springfields of various vintages and black powder ammunition. Leonard Wood, the regiment's commander, insisted that the regiment be armed with equipment equivalent to that of the regulars.

Roosevelt's Rough Riders by Virgil Garrington Jones is a must read for anyone interested in the Rough Riders (a tag coined by the press, and one TR did not particularly care for.)

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:16 am

Don’t forget the Lee 6mm Navy and the Remington Rolling Block. The Navy and Marines subdued the Koreans with the Rolling Block during the 1871 U.S. - Korean War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1895_Lee_Navy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... n_to_Korea
http://www.history.navy.mil/library/onl ... _korea.htm

Then there also is the Remington-Lee M1885
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1885_Remington-Lee

The 1819 Hall breech loading rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1819_Hall_rifle

M1903 Springfield with cut out for the Pederson device

1860 Henry rifle

firefuzz · Post by **firefuzz** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:26 am

gak wrote:The Johnson semi auto in .30-06 (US.30 cal) ...used by the Marines in lieu if the Garand early in WWII in the Pacific Theater. IIRC, used a internal rotary mag.

I bought a pristine Johnson cheap from an old boy that had no clue what he had at the Tulsa gun show in '83 or '84. I got stopped by a half a dozen people wanting to buy it just trying to get out of the show. Sold it for a $600 profit and hadn't owned it 3 hours. Wish I'd have kept it.

I need a .50-70, either a rolling block or trapdoor, a Spencer, and a M14 clone to finish out my collection of cartridge rifles commonly issued to the US ARMY. I'd love to have another Johnson and 6mm Lee straight pull but will probably never be able to afford them.

73 Trapdoor (H&R repro) .45-70
Krag Carbine (cut-down rifle in a carbine stock either DCM or Bannerman's) .30-40
1903 Springfield (1921 barrel stamp with correct serial number) .30-06
1917 Remington (P17) .30-06
H&R m1 Garand (all H&R parts, pretty sure is original, DCM gun from the '60s) .30-06
Plainfield (early) M1 Carbine .30 carbine
Inland M1 Carbine .30 carbine
AR15 (a few, different builds) .223 and .300 Blackout

Rob

Marvin S · Post by **Marvin S** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:03 am

The old SA M1A in the green box was made with GI parts.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Just sorting through the inventory and came up with this, in no particular order:

'63 Colt contract version of the '61 .58 cal Springfield

4 digit model '73 Springfield Trapdoor made in 1875 (high arch, w/firing pin spring!) but with a '77 rear sight.

'73 Springfield Trapdoor carbine w/1881 cartouche.

'84 Springfield Trapdoor carbine w/1887 cartouche.

Mauser M71/84, twin to Tutt's w/1887 stamp, absolutely perfect, all matching and wish my OS supported pics.

Mauser M71/84 Spandau, serviceable w/1886 stamp all mismatched, but shoots well!

1886 Kropatschek...beautiful rifle, very similar to the 71/84 but in 8 X 60R. Needs ejector, using a hand bent bobby pin. Lasts 3-4 rounds if I do not inadvertently cycle the bolt too fast.

1888 German Commission 88-05(armory updates), made in 1889...slugs .3125", a tack driver, very surprised at accuracy.

M95 Steyr straight pull 8 X 56R 1905 rifle armory converted to carbine in 1930-ish. Shoots well using .338 cast 235gr, re-sized to .332 in front of 27 grains of H4198.

M96 Swede made in 1914...this rifle will cloverleaf all day long, using ML sights. 98% NRA

(2) 91-30 Mosins, one 1927, the other 1933...not the best shooters but will hit a 6' target somewhere at 200 yards.

M38 Mosin, made in 1941, kicks like a mule

M44 Mosin, made in 1944, nose heavy, but comes standard with field spike for storage on the range.

#1 Mark3* Lithgow-Enfield 1941, bought at yard sale for $5...in excellent shape!

1943 M-1 Carbine Underwood, bought at farm sale back in the '70's paid $20 for two of them. The other one I traded for a log splitter in the early '80's.

1935 K98 pre Nazi, no swastika's.

1937 K98 first Nazi's, all correct markings

1942 K98 x-markings Russian capture, shoots well

1948 M48 Yugo, still brand new, made in 1949, mfg pencil marks still on stock.

1962 AK-47...supposed to be a Vietnam era, but??? Bought it from a buddy that needed cash thirty five years ago. Russian markings.

Pretty sure I am missing one or two...but still going over the inventory.

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:09 pm

I need to warn you, once you start and get into the history, it will become a fascinating and expensive hobby. There is just so much out there, maybe you could start with just a certain time frame, say WW1, then add as time goes.

Don't say I didn't warn you!!

Good luck, and remember, many of these guns are getting harder to find.

Steve

wm · Post by wm » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:16 pm

SMLE
Krag Jorgenson
Mosin Nagant 91/30
Arisaka
Carcano
AK 47
SKS
Lebel
MAS 36
Martini Henry
Ross

Obviously there are dozens more (or even hundreds) of firearms and variations you could name but I just kept it down to ones you would be expected to encounter in visits to gun shows over the course of a normal year.

If you really want to expand it how about military shotguns too?

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:08 pm

It's an addictive undertaking. Started about thirty years ago for me. Sold off a ton of stuff
to feed my Winchester addiction!

jb

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:13 pm

M-16 ?

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:15 pm

2ndovc wrote:It's an addictive undertaking. Started about thirty years ago for me. Sold off a ton of stuff
to feed my Winchester addiction!

jb

Is your 1895 Win Musket configuration in 7.62x54r??

Steve

Spaxspore · Post by **Spaxspore** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:17 pm

My primary focus in collecting is military surplus/arms , so here are a few. Hope they give you some ideas..

Walther AC 41 P38 and near 100% BYF 1944 p38

1944 Tula PU Sniper

1936 German Mauser Portuguese Contract Rifle

1915 BSA Lee Enfield w/ 1917 Dated Sword bayonet

More Lees

1895 Winchester Russian Contract:

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:45 pm

SteveR wrote:
2ndovc wrote:It's an addictive undertaking. Started about thirty years ago for me. Sold off a ton of stuff
to feed my Winchester addiction!

jb
Is your 1895 Win Musket configuration in 7.62x54r??

Steve

It is. I had three of them but sold off a couple. Dumb Idea!!
Sax,
Great collection!!

jb

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:47 pm

casastahle wrote:M-16 ?

OMG that's HOT!!!!!

jb

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:06 pm

Corporal Stevens is in fact, holding an M-4 carbine, though hers is in the out of the box setup, it's missing the KAC RAS rail.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:16 pm

MrMurphy wrote:Corporal Stevens is in fact, holding an M-4 carbine, though hers is in the out of the box setup, it's missing the KAC RAS rail.

Thanks for the information.
I didn't think it was an M-16, wasn't sure what it was.

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:01 pm

2ndovc wrote:
SteveR wrote:
2ndovc wrote:It's an addictive undertaking. Started about thirty years ago for me. Sold off a ton of stuff
to feed my Winchester addiction!

jb
Is your 1895 Win Musket configuration in 7.62x54r??

Steve

It is. I had three of them but sold off a couple. Dumb Idea!!
Sax,
Great collection!!

jb

I feel for you, I have been looking for one for a number of years now. But the price is never very good or what I am will to part with.
Thanks,
Steve

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:02 pm

Spaxspore wrote:My primary focus in collecting is military surplus/arms , so here are a few. Hope they give you some ideas..

Walther AC 41 P38 and near 100% BYF 1944 p38

1944 Tula PU Sniper

1936 German Mauser Portuguese Contract Rifle

1915 BSA Lee Enfield w/ 1917 Dated Sword bayonet

More Lees

1895 Winchester Russian Contract:

Very nice!!! I love the 1895 Win!!

Steve

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:10 pm

AJMD429 wrote:A parallel collection of HANDGUNS would be cool, as well...

Indeed!

I did much the same thing. I wanted an example of the long arm used by the US military in every major war or period. After I did that, I started on the handguns. Fun theme for one's collection!

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:47 pm

The way this thread is going it's really proving my statement that there are one heck of a lot of very knowledgeable gun guys in this group !

And....what's also outstanding is they are willing to take the time to give some of that knowledge to others.

Actually all of this is proven on a daily basis.

Don

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:59 pm

A Russian Contract 1895 is one of my "dream" guns.

Until then, I'll have to settle for Mosins.

I'd also like to have one of the old "attached ram-rod" .58 Cavalry Carbines (can't remember the actual designation) I saw at the Cody Museum...

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:33 pm

An unusual variant of the Mosin-Nagant: US Rifle MU.S. Rifle, 7.62 mm, Model of 1916. From Wikipedia --

"U.S. Rifle, 7.62 mm, Model of 1916: Due to the desperate shortage of arms and the shortcomings of a still-developing domestic industry, the Russian government ordered 1.5 million M1891 infantry rifles from Remington Arms and another 1.8 million from New England Westinghouse in the United States. Some of these rifles were not delivered before the outbreak of the October Revolution and the subsequent signing of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk which ended hostilities between the Central Powers and Russia. When the Bolsheviks took over the Russian government, they defaulted on the Imperial Russian contracts with the American arsenals, with the result that New England Westinghouse and Remington were stuck with hundreds of thousands of Mosin–Nagants. The US government bought up the remaining stocks, saving Remington and Westinghouse from bankruptcy. The rifles in Great Britain armed the US and British expeditionary forces sent to North Russia in 1918 and 1919. The rifles still in the US ended up being primarily used as training firearms for the US Army. Some were used to equip US National Guard, SATC and ROTC units. Designated 'U.S. Rifle, 7.62mm, Model of 1916', these are among the most obscure U.S. service arms. In 1917, 50,000 of these rifles were sent via Vladivostok to equip the Czechoslovak Legions in Siberia to aid in their attempt to secure passage to France. [Italics added: RCN]

"During the interwar period, the rifles which had been taken over by the US military were sold to private citizens in the United States by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship, the predecessor agency to the current Civilian Marksmanship Program. They were sold for the sum of $3.00 each. If unaltered to chamber the US standard .30-06 Springfield rimless cartridge, these rifles are prized by collectors because they do not have the import marks required by law to be stamped or engraved on military surplus firearms brought into the United States from other countries."

Read all 'bout it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1891#Variants

See also: http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/US-Mosin-Nagants.asp

Spaxspore · Post by **Spaxspore** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:01 am

Ray Newman wrote:An unusual variant of the Mosin-Nagant: US Rifle MU.S. Rifle, 7.62 mm, Model of 1916. From Wikipedia --

"U.S. Rifle, 7.62 mm, Model of 1916: Due to the desperate shortage of arms and the shortcomings of a still-developing domestic industry, the Russian government ordered 1.5 million M1891 infantry rifles from Remington Arms and another 1.8 million from New England Westinghouse in the United States. Some of these rifles were not delivered before the outbreak of the October Revolution and the subsequent signing of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk which ended hostilities between the Central Powers and Russia. When the Bolsheviks took over the Russian government, they defaulted on the Imperial Russian contracts with the American arsenals, with the result that New England Westinghouse and Remington were stuck with hundreds of thousands of Mosin–Nagants. The US government bought up the remaining stocks, saving Remington and Westinghouse from bankruptcy. The rifles in Great Britain armed the US and British expeditionary forces sent to North Russia in 1918 and 1919. The rifles still in the US ended up being primarily used as training firearms for the US Army. Some were used to equip US National Guard, SATC and ROTC units. Designated 'U.S. Rifle, 7.62mm, Model of 1916', these are among the most obscure U.S. service arms. In 1917, 50,000 of these rifles were sent via Vladivostok to equip the Czechoslovak Legions in Siberia to aid in their attempt to secure passage to France. [Italics added: RCN]

"During the interwar period, the rifles which had been taken over by the US military were sold to private citizens in the United States by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship, the predecessor agency to the current Civilian Marksmanship Program. They were sold for the sum of $3.00 each. If unaltered to chamber the US standard .30-06 Springfield rimless cartridge, these rifles are prized by collectors because they do not have the import marks required by law to be stamped or engraved on military surplus firearms brought into the United States from other countries."

Read all 'bout it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1891#Variants

See also: http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/US-Mosin-Nagants.asp

You rang?

All 3

Sadly down to the worn 1915 Westinghouse and the Remington. Sold the other.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:03 am

getitdone1 wrote:The way this thread is going it's really proving my statement that there are one heck of a lot of very knowledgeable gun guys in this group !

And....what's also outstanding is they are willing to take the time to give some of that knowledge to others.

Actually all of this is proven on a daily basis.

Don

+1
And the information is willingly passed on without any belittling

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:19 am

Spaxspore, you have an amazing collection that is a pleasure to admire. Thanks for posting those photos.

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:25 am

Spaxspore,

I am waiting on a nice Remington M1891 to show up. Maybe have to bribe Vic, Sean or Tuco over at the other site, to sell one!!

getitdone1,

I got stuck on the Mosin-Nagant and Finnish rifles, they were with in my price range to collect, but the market has really gone up on them in the past 3-4 years.
You may want to get your 03 FFL, it will save you some money buying directly and having it shipped to your door.

Good Luck and enjoy,
Steve

Spaxspore · Post by **Spaxspore** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:09 am

SteveR wrote:Spaxspore,

I am waiting on a nice Remington M1891 to show up. Maybe have to bribe Vic, Sean or Tuco over at the other site, to sell one!!

getitdone1,

I got stuck on the Mosin-Nagant and Finnish rifles, they were with in my price range to collect, but the market has really gone up on them in the past 3-4 years.
You may want to get your 03 FFL, it will save you some money buying directly and having it shipped to your door.

Good Luck and enjoy,
Steve

Well Said. C&R 03 is a must if you plan on getting into military collecting.

KirkD wrote:Spaxspore, you have an amazing collection that is a pleasure to admire. Thanks for posting those photos.

Glad you enjoyed them!

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:00 pm

1895 SRC 30-06 Winchester model 1895.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:10 pm

If you include pistols, do not forget my favourite, the S&W Schofield issued to the US Cavalry in the early to mid-1870's and then there was the S&W 1st Model American, also issued to the US Cavalry prior to the Schofield.

Spaxspore · Post by **Spaxspore** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:12 pm

if you get into collecting military long guns.. eventually you will find your self knee deep in their handgun counterparts.