want semi auto but like my 30-30

[don1911]

I love my 357 Winchester 92, 30-30 Winchester 94 and 45-70 Marlin 1895.

I would like a semi auto carbine or rifle. But I don't want to get a new or different caliber. Is there a semi auto long gun in 30-30? It would be even better if it used a detachable magazine. And no, I am not looking for a semi auto 45-70. I know there is no such thing. There probably isn't one available in 30-30 either. I'm just hoping? asking?

I am not the least bit interested in a different caliber. If a different caliber is my only choice for a semi auto long gun, I'll just stick with my lever guns.

Thanks.

[7.62 Precision]

None in .30-30 that I know of. The rimmed cartridge is an issue (which is why the Model 8 Remington used a rimless equivalent to the .30-30, for example). It is possible to do it, there were semi-autos built for some rimmed cartridges, but the most common (better) solution has been to develop a rimless cartridge.

Anyone know of one I am missing?

On the other hand, .357 is a possibility. There have been some, including an M1 carbine clone. I wasn't sure if you were also asking about .357.

I have seen a Gatling in .45-70 . . .

Sticking with a lever gun in .30-30 is not a bad thing. Semi-auto has only a few advantages over a lever gun for hunting.

[765x53]

The 7.62x39 is almost a 30/30 equivalent. Ruger Mini-30, SKS, or AK.
The .300 Blackout was developed to be a 7.62x39 equivalent for the AR type rifle.

[earlmck]

Like 7.62 says, the model 8 (or 81) Remington was semi-auto but went for a rimless case because the rim causes difficulties in feeding. That said, the 30 Remington that the model 8 uses is identical in case capacity to your beloved 30/30 and you can use the same loads for it, you just have to get different brass. I have done that very thing because I wanted a 30/30 pump. That's essentially what the model 14/141 Remington is -- a pump 30/30 using a rimless case.

[Bruce Scott]

The Mexican Mondragon semi-auto service rifle was apparently produced in .30-30.
Probably not too many of them about.....



http://www.forgottenweapons.com/early-s ... mondragon/
" Rifles were also produced in 7.5mm Swiss and .30-30 Winchester."

[MrMurphy]

Yeah, rimmed round+auto=problems typically.

The Russians got around it with the 7.62X54 round in their various machine guns and rifles, but it's never been a awesome idea. Since they've been stuck with billions of the caliber since 1891.....eh.


I can't think of a .30-30 semiauto actually in production. Even a pump rifle, most of those are box mag fed (Remington 7600, etc) in different calibers.

[don1911]

None in .30-30 that I know of. The rimmed cartridge is an issue (which is why the Model 8 Remington used a rimless equivalent to the .30-30, for example). It is possible to do it, there were semi-autos built for some rimmed cartridges, but the most common (better) solution has been to develop a rimless cartridge.

Anyone know of one I am missing?

On the other hand, .357 is a possibility. There have been some, including an M1 carbine clone. I wasn't sure if you were also asking about .357.

I have seen a Gatling in .45-70 . . .

Sticking with a lever gun in .30-30 is not a bad thing. Semi-auto has only a few advantages over a lever gun for hunting.

45-70 in gatling?? Wow. did not know that. Interesting.
357 semi auto carbine? I like the sound of that. they made M1 carbine clone in 357 mag? Might be worth looking into. Is it a reliable gun in that caliber?

My Dad and I are interested in defensive/bad times semi auto carbines. But we both want to avoid getting a new caliber. We both already have lever guns in 30-30. So this would be a natural fit to us. Plus if one gun breaks, the ammo could be used in a different gun. If we can't find what we want, we will just stick to our lever guns.

I thank you for the info.

Anyone else know of any others? But once again, we are not interested in rimless calibers or other calibers. But thanks anyway.

[don1911]

The 7.62x39 is almost a 30/30 equivalent. Ruger Mini-30, SKS, or AK.
The .300 Blackout was developed to be a 7.62x39 equivalent for the AR type rifle.

Not 30-30 or 357. Different calibers. Not what I'm looking for.

[MrMurphy]

If you're not switching calibers, stick to your levers, stockpile some spare parts and a lot of ammo, have a way to carry spare ammo quickly (the canvas type similar to what our guys used in the Indian Wars is about the best you'll find for a tube feed).

A .30-30 can do fine work as a defensive gun as long as you don't run the gun dry before you run out of bad guys, since speedloading a tube magazine is a major deficiency.

I've got seven calibers in my safe so adding one more doesn't freak me out, but I also have the semiauto category filled already.

[7.62 Precision]

I have no personal experience with the .357 M1 Carbines. I know they were made, and my brother has seen one (and shot it, I think) but I he wants one bad and we have both been looking for one for years unsuccessfully.

The .45-70 Gatling is really cool - it was on the range next to ours at SHOT Show media day. I've never paid that much for a car, though, let alone a gun.

Generally, if someone is looking for a defensive carbine, I will recommend a 5.56 AR-15 over everything else. The ammunition is inexpensive and lightweight, and they are just correct for defensive use (as well as hunting and a lot of other stuff). My first recommendation is to add one more caliber and get an AR, but I can appreciate the idea of keeping it simple, and to loosely quote SGM Plumley, time comes you need one, there will likely be a few laying around.

The .357 Mag lever gun makes a pretty good defensive carbine, with the downside of slower reloading and tougher to use in the prone. In one caliber or another they have saved lives since the 1860s; earlier if you count the Volcanic.

[wvfarrier]

I have a 300 blackout AR and it's a great round for re loaders BUT I almost never use it anymore. There is no replacement for a good lever gun. Stay away from 7.62x39, the ammo selection for anything but steel case fmj's is pretty limited and in the AR platform causes several feeding issues. Even with the dedicated mags now made for it. I will take 10 rds of 357 or 44 over a semi anyday

[Old Ironsights]

Yeah, rimmed round+auto=problems typically.

The Russians got around it with the 7.62X54 round in their various machine guns and rifles, but it's never been a awesome idea. Since they've been stuck with billions of the caliber since 1891.....eh.


I can't think of a .30-30 semiauto actually in production. Even a pump rifle, most of those are box mag fed (Remington 7600, etc) in different calibers.

Ditto. Beat me to it.

I suppose it would be theoretically possible to convert a VEPR or PRK/RPK type rifle to 30-30 but it would not be easy...

[BenT]

Savage made a model 170 pump in 30-30, might be an option. I just looked at a Ruger 44 mag deerfield carbine at the gunshop 2 days ago. My friend said he had one and in order for them to function correctly they had to be full mag loads . No lead bullets. So what fun is that . Levers are more versatle with different loads. I do hear good things about the Ruger Mini 30 for whitetail.

Otherwise like Earl says Remington model 8/81 in 30 Rem is balisticaly equal to the 30-30 . But it isn't handy like a levergun or remington model 14/141 pump.

[AJMD429]

A 50 Beowulf has essentially the same ballistics as a 45-70, in a nice AR package.

Yeah, I know 'a different caliber (and cartridge), but it IS a good one, and even a little girl can shoot one ) - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=48904

I plan on getting a levergun to go with the 50 caliber bullets, at least (500 S&W 1889 - http://www.bighornarmory.com/catalog/bi ... carbine-2/)

Anyway, I like mine...


Half-inch diameter 350-400 grain bullets at 2000-1800 fps respectively. . . what's not to like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN6uvd1GeSs

http://alexanderarms.com/index.php/prod ... video.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... VtTJqWlxJc

http://www.beyond556.com/bboard/showthr ... ad-project[/url]

As for a '30-30 equivalent' of course there is the 300 Blk, which is another 'AR' platform goodie...

http://300aacblackout.com/
http://300aacblackout.com/resources/AAC-AR-Manual.pdf

According to Advanced Armament Corp ("AAC"):

"This system was developed to launch 30 caliber projectiles from the AR platform without a reduction in magazine capacity and compatible with the standard bolt.

Full power 115-125 grain ammunition matches the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm AK, and eclipses 5.56mm with much higher-mass projectiles for a more dramatic effect on the target. Or choose subsonic cartridges for optimal use with a sound suppressor - 220 grain Sierra OTM (open-tip match) bullets vastly outperforms a 9mm MP5-SD in penetration and long range accuracy.

Ammo and brass prices are low - Remington 115 grain UMC ammo is $12.99 a box MSRP - and it is not bare bones. It has waterproofed primers, crimped and cannelured open-tip match bullets, and a low-drag design.

At 300 meters, 300 BLK has 16.7% more energy than 7.62x39mm. Max effective range, using M4 military standards for hit probability, is 440 meters for a 9 inch barrel, and 460 meters for a 16 inch barrel. 300 BLK from a 9 inch barrel has the same energy at the muzzle as a 14.5 inch barrel M4, and about 5% more energy at 440 meters - even though the barrel is much shorter.

For hunting - think of it as like a 30-30 but from an AR. After you are done, you can remove your 5-round magazine and put in a 30 for plinking or home defense. For ammo, Remington has you covered with the Premiere AccuTip 125 grain. Want industry-wide support? Over 60 companies have already announced or sell products.

Due to the high efficiency of the cartridge, less powder is used than 5.56mm, which results in a rifle that is a comfortable to shoot - even with a short barrel. "

So - as far as semiautomatics in the same cartridge as 30-30 and 45-70 - difficult at best, and your extra 'gun' cost would WAY MORE THAN OFFSET your extra 'brass inventory' cost. However, if you want a semiautomatic in the same caliber, you have several options. The 50 Beowulf and 300 Blackout are about the same power range.

Think about this - yes, you'd need extra BRASS, but not necessarily different primers, powder, OR bullets, if you got a Beowulf and Blackout upper for an AR-15. Plus, everyone should have an AR-15. . .

Still, leverguns can do quite a bit, and I do like the 'same cartridge mostly, same diameter always' concept...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51097

Sorry for all the 'links' but much of this has been discussed before here.

Here's (mid-page) yet another link to my 'Night Scout' rifles (leverguns), that might make one not feel as under-gunned just sticking to leverguns vs. semiautos...


(link) = Night ScoutLeverguns

[MrMurphy]

Yeah, the Ruger .44s were always ammo-specific.

The Mini-30 has the same issues the 14 does, and is also incorrectly set up for the 90 billion rounds of cheap 7.62X39 military ammo out there. I'd take a SKS with the addition of a Tech-Sight rear sight over any Mini-30 or Mini-14.

While I prefer an AR over pretty much anything else for serious fighting purposes, I've also spent my entire adult life carrying one and 200 rounds of ammo or so.

For your average Katrina/Sandy/L.A riots situation a .357 or .30-30 levergun and a few similarly armed friends can take care of many things, especially if you've run a lever for decades.

[Pete44ru]

.

The closest you're going to get to a .30-30 autoloader would be to hunt down a Savage 170 pumpgun (made in both .30-30 & .35 Rem).




.

[Old Ironsights]

.

The closest you're going to get to a .30-30 autoloader would be to hunt down a Savage 170 pumpgun (made in both .30-30 & .35 Rem).


.

I'm supposed to get one of those from my Uncle when he passes/quits hunting in WI...

[cas]

"I am not the least bit interested in a different caliber"

That boggles my mind. Usually the reason I buy a gun is because it's a different caliber., quite often the only reason.


Besides putting all your eggs in one basket, it seems incredibly boring.

[mikld]

I can understand not wanting to add another caliber; need to acquire ammo, then dies, bullets, brass, powders (if you don't have one that will work), and then you may have to get molds and sizing dies, oh yeah and have to work up loads...

Wait a minute, that's why I reload!

[Griff]

Make yourself up a BUNCH of Lever-action Speed-Loaders:

[Larkbill]

Just saw a Remington Model 8 at Cabela's in St Louis in .30-30. Had to look twice because I thought I was seeing it wrong. But the markings were clear. They had it priced at $519. I've made offers there before and they haven't shown much interest in bargaining. Too bad, I might be a buyer a little closer to $400.

How well do these guns function in a rimmed cartridge? Had moderate wear for a gun this age so someone used it.

[Pete44ru]

.

According to Remington, the Model 8 autoloader was only offered in 25 Rem, .30 Rem, .32 Rem, & .35 Rem - but never the .30-30 Winchester.

http://www.remington.com/products/archi ... del-8.aspx


.

[7.62 Precision]

A 50 Beowulf has essentially the same ballistics as a 45-70, in a nice AR package.

Yeah, I know 'a different caliber (and cartridge), but it IS a good one, and even a little girl can shoot one ) - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=48904

That's one of my rifles - I have a video of that hunt that her dad gave me - I will get it edited and post it soon.

It's good for fishing, too:



Rem model 8 is .30 Rem. I would have another look. I see a lot of people say .30-30, so I think it is often a case of kind if seeing what they expect to see.

On there other hand it might be some kind of conversion, but it it is even possible with the rimmed cartridge, what a pain that conversion would be to do.

[2520WHV]

Just saw a Remington Model 8 at Cabela's in St Louis in .30-30. Had to look twice because I thought I was seeing it wrong. But the markings were clear.

Very early in production, the Model 8 was referred to as the .30-30 Remington.... The '30-30' was soon dropped as being too confusing as to correct ammo to use. Very early ammunition was also marked as such and is very rare.
See this link.... Scroll down to the early Peters cartridges (and box) so marked.

2520WHV
http://www.ammo-one.com/30Remington.html

[Molasses]

Just saw a Remington Model 8 at Cabela's in St Louis in .30-30. Had to look twice because I thought I was seeing it wrong. But the markings were clear.

Very early in production, the Model 8 was referred to as the .30-30 Remington.... The '30-30' was soon dropped as being too confusing as to correct ammo to use. Very early ammunition was also marked as such and is very rare.
See this link.... Scroll down to the early Peters cartridges (and box) so marked.

2520WHV
http://www.ammo-one.com/30Remington.html

^ What he said. My Stevens High Power Model 425 levergun may be marked ".30-30 Rem", but it's still chambered and has the boltface set up for the rimless .30 Remington.

[H_Talon]

if you really want one this guy would be the one to build one ..
but you can stand by to pay a hefty price,

http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/index.php

any rifle that can work with a 35rem or other rimed cartridge
could be rebarreled to 30-30. but for a semi I'd suggest
a A10 or DPMS .. ASI can do them in 35rem so 30-30 should
be do-able. but @ what cost ????

something tells me you'll stick with you levers

[7.62 Precision]

any rifle that can work with a 35rem or other rimed cartridge
could be rebarreled to 30-30.

.35 Rem is not rimmed. You won't get a .30-30 rim to work with an AR10 bolt, I don't think - if you opened the bolt up that much, it would most likely come apart. There would be likely big magazine issues too, with the rimmed cartridge, even if you could come up with a bolt that worked.

[JohndeFresno]

If you are a handloader, there is in fact a 30-30 type load, using 30-30 bullets, that you can fire in a semi-auto firearm!

This is from an earlier posting:
What is the most unusual cartridge you shoot?
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/posti ... 1&p=248022

Griff, I liked your highlighting, so I stole it...
(1) What is the most unusual/unique/interesting cartridge you shoot?
7.62x39mm Russian (SKS) with a .30-30 Cast bullet -
173 gr. Lyman #311041 Flat Point w/ Gas Check (FP-GC), sized to .311
IMR 4895 23.0 gr (CAUTION - WORK UP TO THIS, ONLY FOR STRONG ACTIONS!!)
Winchester new brass
CCI 200 Lg Rifle Primers
C.O.A.L. 2.143 in. (note where bullet is crimped in photo below)
1704 FPS Est. Muzzle Velocity, 1,116 ft. lbs. ME (not yet chrono'd for my rifle)

(2) Why does it qualify for that designation?
1) This is a .30-30 hard cast bullet in a Russian carbine (my bore is in fact .311)
2) Cheap SKS rounds - either cast 'em or purchase .30 cal. commonly cast bullets for SKS!
3) So far, no leading due to hard cast lead and .30-30 velocity
4) You have a rapid firing .30-30 deer and hog rifle in a semi-auto carbine

(4) What does it cost per round on average?
Exact cost, using calculations of reloading costs BO (Before Obama)
I purchased the cast bullets, so this factors in the cost of purchased lead bullets, shipping, tax, and so on - and the cost of brand new Winchester brass, and my actual cost for powder (in a large lot) with shipping and Hazmat costs figured in on a large order:
$0.586 ea round, $11.72 for 20
Brass used 10 times (if the pressure stands it), cost drops down to:
$0.316 ea round, $5.64 for 20
Much, much cheaper if you cast your own and buy larger lots of powder

(3) How does it perform?
One ragged hole at 10 yards, shows promise for great accuracy at longer ranges; to be tested further and perhaps with small variations in powder load.
Bullets come out hot to the touch as with factory loads, but no apparent signs of pressure
Surprisingly, absolutely no leading (I stripped down the carbine to check)
Unbelievably soft shooting .30-30, as if that would be an issue, anyway!

I cannot claim any credit for this, Junior Doughty's, load. He is no longer at this forum, but is still at http://www.castbullet.com and probably still has his own website. His listed powder, however, was SURPLUS 4895.

I must apologize for the poor exposure of the bullets shown below; I merely snapped a quick offhand flash photo of part of my bullet board and cropped it for this posting.


Left to right:
Standard 7.62x39mm Russian 173 gr. SP (Factory or Handload; I disremember)
7.62x39mm Russian 173 gr. LFNFP GC (Junior's Handload - my "unusual" load)
.30-30 Win. 173 gr. LFNFP GC (Handload, Same boolit as above)
Standard .30-30 Win. 150 gr. R-P SP (Factory)

[Pete44ru]

Just saw a Remington Model 8 at Cabela's in St Louis in .30-30. Had to look twice because I thought I was seeing it wrong. But the markings were clear.

Very early in production, the Model 8 was referred to as the .30-30 Remington.... The '30-30' was soon dropped as being too confusing as to correct ammo to use. Very early ammunition was also marked as such and is very rare.
See this link.... Scroll down to the early Peters cartridges (and box) so marked.

2520WHV
http://www.ammo-one.com/30Remington.html

Nuf' said...............................................


.

[tman]

30WCF. and .357S&W were not designed to be semi auto cartridges. Even if you did rechamber an arm to fire one, It would limit bullet selection to something that would RELIABLLY fuction in it. Thats y .357 autoloading pistols exist, but they aren't popular, limited ammo selections. 10MM auto instead of the .357. A 308 inplace of the 30-30.That ain't a bad alternative, if u think about it.

[rangerider7]

I agree with some here that a Remington Model 8 or 81 would be the answer and they are not to expensive. I had a model 8 and wish I still did. RR7

[Old Ironsights]

Just as a Gee Whiz:

7.62x54R vs .30-30



So I'm thinking that it might just be possible to convert a 54R autoloader to .30-30... but it would not be easy. At least the magazines would be close...

SVT, Dragunov, PSL, TIGR, VEPR... at least the VEPR's are relatively available "new" (not collectible surplus) guns...

http://armsofamerica.com/veprtacticalsn ... nsale.aspx

[LeverDud]

Possibly doable. There are several Kalashnikov (AK type) rifles chambered for 7.62x54R. I suspect that a quality AK smith like Krebs might be able to convert one to .30-30 Win.

Alternately, I note that 300 Win Short Magnum has a rim diameter just a half a millimeter more than the .30-30, so perhaps a Browning BAR semi-auto might be easily re-chambered, but the vertical magazine might be an issue to be dealt with.

[Pete44ru]

.


That's why the SKS used to be often referred to as the poor man's .30-30......................



.

[Tycer]

Here's my two cents. If you are not willing to add a caliber stop looking for an auto loader. To become even partially useful with whatever weapon you choose, you must send beau coup rounds downrange. You gotta be able to hit your target while you are moving and while it's moving. That takes training and ammo. Lots of ammo. Lots.
Get yourself another 92 and some parts, a bucket of brass and some fast powder for practice ammo and get great with the 357. You'll kick butt over 99% of the yahoos who can't run their guns and that 1% will drop you no matter what you are carrying. Why does our military kick so much butt? They practice.

Oh, and air superiority. Oh right, and the Marines. Oorah.