Uberti 1873 Winchester SRC 44 MAGNUM

[Centennial]

Here's the link to it;
www.uberti.com/1873-rifle-and-carbine

Apparently a toggle link action is safe and doable in 44 magnum.
I know EuroArms was importing them to the US in the late 1970's. But I have never seen one.

Has anyone had a chance to shoot or examine one of these new Uberti 1873 Winchester copies in 44 magnum?

[J Miller]

I've wanted an Uberti 1873 for many years. Never will get one, but I can still want.

Concerning the 44 Mag, I'd pass on that. With modern steels and manufacturing methods there is an additional margin of safety with the lower pressure rounds such as the .45 Colt and 44 W.C.F.
I just cannot see that being the case with the 44 Mag. Perhaps I'm all wrong, but I'd rather err on the side of caution.

Thanks for the link, that does look like a nice rifle.

Joe

[Centennial]

They have been out and on Ubertis website for over a year. I'm surprised there hasn't been any write up/experience about them on the www.

[KWK]

They've been out for over 2 years now. I haven't come across much on them. One fellow on these forums mentioned he has one but hasn't shot it much. Hopefully he'll comment.

[Sixgun]

They've been out for over 2 years now. I haven't come across much on them. One fellow on these forums mentioned he has one but hasn't shot it much. Hopefully he'll comment.

Apparently, there must not be much bolt thrust on that cartridge. ----6

[Centennial]

They've been out for over 2 years now. I haven't come across much on them. One fellow on these forums mentioned he has one but hasn't shot it much. Hopefully he'll comment.

Apparently, there must not be much bolt thrust on that cartridge. ----6

Bell out the front of the chamber and there won't ba any bolt thrust then just quadruple up on the extractors

[KWK]

I know, 6, I'm long overdue with that; sorry. I've a lazy streak--a great, wide lazy streak.

[Sixgun]

KWK,
I hear ya! -----6

[Tactical Lever]

I've wanted an Uberti 1873 for many years. Never will get one, but I can still want.

Concerning the 44 Mag, I'd pass on that. With modern steels and manufacturing methods there is an additional margin of safety with the lower pressure rounds such as the .45 Colt and 44 W.C.F.
I just cannot see that being the case with the 44 Mag. Perhaps I'm all wrong, but I'd rather err on the side of caution.

Thanks for the link, that does look like a nice rifle.

Joe

I suspect Sixgun hit the nail on the head. I think that there should be very little bolt thrust with a straight walled cartridge. And I would have no problem trusting a gun that Uberti made. It's not like they are "Red Jacket"!

[Buck Elliott]

You can bet that the Beretta/Benelli group is not about to toss away their hundreds of years' reputation in the firearms field over something they haven't tried and tested and proved beyond any doubt... You can also bet that they want to provide only the best of type for their demanding customers.. Not all huge manufacturing concerns have such high standards, but I believe Beretta/Uberti has this one well in-hand..

[Old Time Hunter]

Waiting for one in the Special Sporting Rifle-short, they still do not offer it.

[Centennial]

Over 10 years ago I was looking for a Uberti/1873 Winchester SRC in 44 special, to match my favorite handgun cartridge. They were/are hard to find. On the internet I found two of those EuroArms 1873's in 44 magnum. I think both were in Texas. Both said they worked fine, but I was leary of it, to far away to check it out, and opted for the new Uberti in 44 special. I haven't been sorry it is amazingly accurate.

The carbine ladder sight is regulated as per the originals for a 44WCF which works well for my 44 special reloads. The only problem with it isn't as well made/fitted and you have to set the elevator carfully to the increment lines for each shot. It really likes IMR SR 4759 but those rascals at Hodgdon are discontuing that powder. That is a shame and another story.

It would be nice to see one of the 44 magnums and understand what steps they took to make it work and be safe. Having the option of 44 magnum is a plus, and I'd like to see if it would function with both 44 mag and specials, and how accurate it is. Once you get into high intensity/pressures, things begin to happen and accuracy takes a side door.

[J Miller]

I am looking forward to the first forum member who does us a really good in depth report on one of these. I am curious about them, though still a bit paranoid of the pressure factor.

The only benefit I can see about the 44 Mag version is brass would be easier to acquire.

Joe

[Buck Elliott]

At 38,000 cup, the .44 mag is NOT a particularly "high-intensity" cartridge.. In fact, its pressure is nearly identical to the 'doddering' .30-30 Winchester, and nobody would argue that the old .30 suffers loss of accuracy because of 'excessive' pressure.. The newer .307 Winchester, fired from the same basic platform, runs at 52,000 cup, and accuracy has proved more than adequate..

In short: The Sky Is NOT Falling...!!

[J Miller]

Buck,

I thought we were talking about the toggle action of the 73 design.

I'm quite aware of the 94 design and the cartridges it's been chambered for. The 94 design is and always has been my favorite Winchester lever gun.

But it would seem to me that to compare the 73 and it's toggle action to the 94 with it's solid bolt block type to be a bit like comparing apples to tomatoes.

That's why I want to read an actual report by someone here on LG's that I know and trust. The paid magazine writers are ..... well they're being paid to help the companies sell guns.

Joe

[Centennial]

deleted

[Centennial]

At 38,000 cup, the .44 mag is NOT a particularly "high-intensity" cartridge.. In fact, its pressure is nearly identical to the 'doddering' .30-30 Winchester, and nobody would argue that the old .30 suffers loss of accuracy because of 'excessive' pressure.. The newer .307 Winchester, fired from the same basic platform, runs at 52,000 cup, and accuracy has proved more than adequate..

In short: The Sky Is NOT Falling...!!

That ^ is a un-warranted comment. Why bother?

25 years ago I had a 19th century lever action relined from shot out 40-60 to 45-70 and it is a true 1 MOA rifle kept under 20K psi.
How I learned that was from a 75 year old gunsmith who did the work. I mailed him the target, he was unsurprised.
He replied back ...."those low intensity cartidges were accurate like that if the pressure and velocity was kept down".

I have two pre 64 Winchesters one marked 30-30 the other 30WCF and neither of those is 1 MOA rifle. Maybe if I loaded them down a bit to find the accuracy sweet spot. But that is another action and another story.

[Griff]

Books have been written about this entire field... and I haven't read all of them yet. But... if mechanically sound, geometrically correct, almost any cartridge and firearm combination is capable of better accuracy than us humans are capable of. As we should all well know, to judge any combination on the basis of ONE example is prejudicial, pure and simple. Even two is still, IMO, a suspect sample pool. Unless there's a physical issue, usually involving steel's properties under varying degrees of heat and stress, or an issue of bullet fit to bore, metallurgy of the bullet and amount/composition of the lube, any lack of accuracy is a human failing. Yes, you can overdrive a projectiles capabilities... but isn't that a type of human failing?

I don't think there's any reason to fear a 1873 clone from Uberti in .44Mag. However, I've had a .44Mag lever-action carbine... Sorry, it hits harder on the back end than any loading I've had in a .30-30 carbine, with no increase in performance out the front end. I fully understand the desire to have a rifle/handgun combination of the same cartridge. Hmmm... maybe... THAT's why I have 5 rifles in .45COLT! 3 of which I can play with to duplicate the ballistics of a .44 Magnum... My two .45Colt toggle links are NOT going to experimented with in that manner.

[Buck Elliott]

The object of my previous post was to compare PRESSURES, not necessarily rifle actions.. to say that a .44 at .30-30 pressures might not be accurate is just not true..

I fully realize that the '73 and the '94 are very different machines, and may react differently to pressure, but it really matters only if the pressure is great enough to cause physical damage or distortion to one of the rifles..

Don't go looking for an argument where none exists.. That is "unwarranted..."

[ollogger]

You can bet that the Beretta/Benelli group is not about to toss away their hundreds of years' reputation in the firearms field over something they haven't tried and tested and proved beyond any doubt... You can also bet that they want to provide only the best of type for their demanding customers.. Not all huge manufacturing concerns have such high standards, but I believe Beretta/Uberti has this one well in-hand..

I think Buck nailed it!!
Even if its a 10,000 round gun, at my age I couldn't wear it out, but I may give it a whirl


ollogger

[Les Staley]

Ollogger, I agree. I don't know anyone that could afford the ammo or even components enough to wear out a good quality rifle. My old grandpa bought his 32 special in 1919 for $10 used.. Has seen three more generations of Staley deer hunters and still shoots good.. (Five owners, in case you were counting) Les

[firefuzz]

You can bet that the Beretta/Benelli group is not about to toss away their hundreds of years' reputation in the firearms field over something they haven't tried and tested and proved beyond any doubt... You can also bet that they want to provide only the best of type for their demanding customers.. Not all huge manufacturing concerns have such high standards, but I believe Beretta/Uberti has this one well in-hand..

I dunno Buck. A pair of Beretta Stampede's in .357 that the hammers locked up with the muzzles held in a particular direction, a Beretta Gold Rush pump in .357 that got sent back to the factory the day after I bought it because it wouldn't cock after I cycled the action about 10 times, and a Beretta Renegade lever action in .357 that locked open after the 10th round of very light loaded ammo, shipped back to the factory 6 days after the date of purchase (Beretta refunded my money on this one because out of seven, NEW, identical rifles in their warehouse NONE of them worked right.) I also got to eat the H.I.S. on the two defective, brand new guns I had to return to the factory to the tune of almost $100.

The only one I still have is the pump because my daughter fell in love with it and they seem to have gotten it fixed, AFTER accusing me of taking the gun apart and improperly re-assembling it....didn't happen, never touched a screw on it.

I own several regular Uberti's that other than smoothing them up a little I've never had an issue with, but I'll never buy another Uberti with Beretta stamped on it anywhere. IMHO, my Miroku/Winchester/Browning's are 10 times the guns the Beretta/Uberti clones are and they don't cost that much more.

Rob

[Buck Elliott]

ALL Uberti fireams manufactured in the last 10-12 years have been made under the Beretta flag, whatever else it may say on the barrel or elsewhere..

i own - and Shoot - two Uberti Stampede revolvers.. My first one is a very early gun, Ser #B000xx, a 7 1/2" .45 Colt. The second gun came a few years later, and is #B119xx, a 4 3/4" .45. About the time I got gun no. 2, the first one locked up and wouldn't cock.. A quick dive into the innards revealed the the tiny screw that holds the bolt actuator to the hammer had come loose. A quick drop of blue loctite and a cew twists with a screw driver, and it has performed flawlessly ever since.. wanting no other reminder, I did the same thing to the shorter-barreled gun, and have not had a minute's worth of trouble with either revolver..

About a year and a bit ago, I picked up a brand-new Uberti stainless SA, marked "Stoeger" on the barrel.. This gun is a 4 3/4" .45 as well, and contains the more-traditional internal lockwork..smooth and solid, out of the box, it needed some mainspring attention to make it what I wanted it to be.. No glitches in a couple thousand rounds..

Also just recently picked up a Uberti '73 Short Rifle, marked "Stoeger" on the barrel. Finish is not as meticulous as that on the Taylor's '73 that I traded for it, but it is as good as I need it to be, and the rifle functions perfectly.. i will reduce the mainspring tension a bit, and all will be well in Wyoming..

As a gunsmith, I have worked on numerous Uberti guns over the years.. Most common problem has been heavy trigger pulls, with occasional broken. Parts or timing issues.. fWIW, none of my Uberti revolvers shows a drag line anywhere on the cylinder..

My experience with the slide-action rifles is limited to just two examples from Uberti, and they just needed some cleaning up of internal parts..

Sorry you had such tough luck with yours, but Beretta still does a great job of trying to keep us Americans supplied with top-notch replica firearms, out of their Uberti facility..

[Centennial]

I still would like to see one in person. If I could afford it I'd buy it just to inspect and do some load developement with.
It would be interesting to compare to my 44 special, which is not offered in Uberti's online catalog anymore.

[Malamute]

At 38,000 cup, the .44 mag is NOT a particularly "high-intensity" cartridge.. In fact, its pressure is nearly identical to the 'doddering' .30-30 Winchester, and nobody would argue that the old .30 suffers loss of accuracy because of 'excessive' pressure.. The newer .307 Winchester, fired from the same basic platform, runs at 52,000 cup, and accuracy has proved more than adequate..

In short: The Sky Is NOT Falling...!!

That ^ is a un-warranted comment. Why bother?

25 years ago I had a 19th century lever action relined from shot out 40-60 to 45-70 and it is a true 1 MOA rifle kept under 20K psi.
How I learned that was from a 75 year old gunsmith who did the work. I mailed him the target, he was unsurprised.
He replied back ...."those low intensity cartidges were accurate like that if the pressure and velocity was kept down".

I have two pre 64 Winchesters one marked 30-30 the other 30WCF and neither of those is 1 MOA rifle. Maybe if I loaded them down a bit to find the accuracy sweet spot. But that is another action and another story.

The premise the pressure alone causes accuracy to deterioate is flawed. There are a number of factors that can come into play, especially with the older cartridges you mentioned before. Bullet integrity with the rifling, and bullet lube composition play a major part. Some cartridges do have sweet spots for accuracy, but pressure alone isnt neccesarily a determining factor, some loads even shoot better with heavier charges than lighter. Even with jacketed bullets, pressure alone isnt a sole factor in accuracy or lack of. I've shot some very good groups in 45-70 with jacketed bullets that were fairly warm, the first 3 shots were inside the 1" grid on the target @ 100 yards. If accuracy steadily deteriorated with increased velocity, it should be very difficult to get accuracy from rounds that run in the 30-06 to 338 mag pressure range, but such hasnt been the case in my experience. Both tend to shoot better than most leverguns are capable of in general, and without much load work. Even cast loads in fairly high velocity ranges can shoot very well when bullets are tailored to the load.

[Centennial]

^ In the context of what the old gunsmith was talking about, 19th century lever actions with pressure points from forearms, barrel bands, and magazine tubes, I still agree with him.
He did excellent work, was a machinist of the old school. When he needed something he made it, if it was a liner that wasn't available he made one from a rifle barrel. He was 75 years old 25 years ago. So he is likely gone across the divide now. He had a lot of experience behind what he said and did, not just one or two guns. His name was Robert West of Eugene Oregon. His word was his bond. For me what he said has rang true and lots of old guns and copies.
My repeating what he said is in the context of what he was referring to BPC in 19th century designs, not 30-06 or 338, and so on.