Bigger black rifles.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:30 pm

OK my trusted brothers in arms. How do you feel about the pros and cons of the current Armalite AR-10B series carbines?

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:33 pm

Intended use, range, and budget?

If it's purely for a hunting gun, I'd recommend the S&W M&P10 with a decent optic first for the money.

Armalites aren't bad. They're not the original Armalite (no matter what they tell you) but considering the AR-10 market has no uniform standard compared to AR-15s.....they're decent.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:39 pm

MrMurphy wrote:Intended use, range, and budget?

If it's purely for a hunting gun, I'd recommend the S&W M&P10 with a decent optic first for the money.

Armalites aren't bad. They're not the original Armalite (no matter what they tell you) but considering the AR-10 market has no uniform standard compared to AR-15s.....they're decent.

I'd like to have a service level quality weapon in .308 that I could bet my life on. Less is better in my budget in that I'll have to sell things I do not want to sell to purchase it, however for a "parachute", the bargain bin is not for me.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:44 pm

Tycer wrote:I'd like to have a service level quality weapon in .308 that I could bet my life on. Less is better in my budget in that I'll have to sell things I do not want to sell to purchase it, however for a "parachute", the bargain bin is not for me.

So a 'do everything' gun? And i don't mean that sarcastically.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:54 pm

Unless you are contemplating an extra upper in 243 Winchester or something like that, you might be as pleased with an M-1A as you would be with the 'AR' format weapons in 308. Just food for thought.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:28 pm

I like the idea of the new(ish) Colt .308 AR --- a little pricy -- about twice what a DPMS or Bushmaster is and knocking on the door of SCAR territory , but i'm sure it would be a quality, bombproof gun if my experience with Colt's smaller AR's is any indication

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:07 pm

I enjoyed my friends FAL more than his M1A

BobM · Post by **BobM** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:21 pm

I'm a satisfied S&W M&P10 owner myself. I'm going to free float it and get a better scope.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:45 pm

I prefer the DPMS pattern .308 ARs. A number of companies make them, the Knights Armament/DPMS mags have good availability, and if there is anything close to a standard for .308 ARs, this is sort of it.

I have one built from DPMS and CMMG parts in .260 Rem - it is a real shooter. However, I generally don't care for the weight and balance of the .308 size ARs as much as AR-15s.

Since the 6.5 Grendel does a lot of things as well as a .308 and some things better, I lean toward that caliber in an AR-15. The M1A is balanced more nicely than a lot of .308 ARs, but is much more expensive to scope, accurize, and buy good mags for. Also, it has a right-side charging handle, and starts out expensive as a base rifle.

.308 is hard to beat for an all-around rifle with ammo availability everywhere.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:54 am

I shoot 358 Win mostly. It's my go to hunting round with my BLR and I do have five or six mags for it. I do have a bunch of LC 308 brass and projectiles and a 308 barrel for my 358 bolt gun. Switching to 308 would be easy for me. I've thought for several years now that I should have a 308 carbine rather than just the BLR as my defense carbine. With all the good info on the AR popping up here I thought a re-visit of the topic would be timely.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:30 am

have you looked at PTR-91? they are less than a thousand, take 4$ magazines, mount cold war era optics or can be had with a pic rail welded, can still get para stocks and wood or plastic furniture.

they are reliable, soft shooting. I don't know about ultimate accuracy, I saw a video of a worked over rifle hitting at 600 meters. I haven't tried to be precise with mine yet. I think the other guy has had good accuracy results with his...

I might have liked an AR-10 if I could have found one for the price I paid at the time of the fever pitch in the market, but the problem with non-standard magazines put me off.

worst "feature" of the 91 design is that the receiver ejection cutout is the shell deflector, and it crimps the brass. I put a dollop of shoe-goo over that part, looks like snot, and it saves the brass from being remodeled every time.

best feature, it's not a gas gun, recoil operated just like a 1911, with a different delay mechanism. although it is probably as dirty as a gas gun because it uses the gas to unseat the round from the chamber. it was designed as a machine gun and then bubba'd to prevent it from full autoing. it wants to go auto the same way an open bolt uzi does.

meandering again

Grizz

http://www.ptr91.com/

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:45 pm

AR-10: Lightest weight of any of my autos, very accurate (EXTREMELY accurate with match barrel and trigger) could be expensive , not as robust as other systems, lots of aftermarket parts to change the system with.
FN/L1A1/DSA: GREAT rifle, accurate, take abuse almost as well as a AK, balances well (Best humanly engineered of the battle rifles), a bit hard to mount scope.
The M1A or M14: GREAT Rifle, my 1st issued match rifle while shooting on a military High Power rifle team (only for 5 years) was a match grade M14 with the auto selector welded in the semi position. I learned a lot from the other shooters and won my share of matches and normally would place at least in the top 10 having won a Bronze Distinguished Rifleman Badge in the process. Carried a 16.5 inch barrel M-14 w/selector (Springfield started selling the SOCOM two years after I made mine) in combat in Iraq and a couple of other places instead of an M-16.
Medium weight, accurate (some models VERY Accurate and sensitive to maintenance) works under adverse conditions, a bit hard to scope.
The HK 91- GREAT RIFLE; heavy, hard on recoil (in full auto, the most abusive 308 I have ever used), accurate (Very if you get the right one), takes the most abuse of any 308 (you can shoot a logged bullet out of the barrel and the rifle will still function with a slight loss of accuracy), GREAT platform for rifle grenades or as a line launcher with a dummy round and a rope tied to it. I carried it in my State Police cruiser for twelve years before replacing it with a full auto British L1A1.

After reading this before I posted it sorry for the rambling

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:11 pm

A friend has the Remington version... but he hasn't shot it much, and me not at all. I prefer my Garand... even if it is heavier.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:56 pm

I've looked at the PTRs but their prices seems to still be inflated, where the AR-style .308s have come way down in price.
I'd love to have one. My primary use would be coyotes, so a Rem version is on my mind.

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:21 pm

I see all the reviews of the latest black rifles and the oooh'ing and ahhhh'ing of the gun media......

As per previous posters, all this has been done before, and it's called the FN FAL.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:05 pm

The FAL is a fine rifle in the standard setup, but if it goes beyond irons and the factory trigger with "battle rifle accuracy" it's only so so.

Of the accurate AR-10s, the KAC and OBR win, but they're $3-6000.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:41 pm

A guy who spent time in Israel training and shot with the FAL while there once told me, "The FAL is reliable and pretty accurate, and is like shooting a two-by-four."

I thought that was an interesting description.

The G3 clones are a little dirtier to shoot than any AR, no matter what anyone says, and recoil is a bit sharper than FALs and ARs. The CETME has much softer recoil than the G3/HK91, and I have no idea why. CETME can be a nice rifle if you get a good one. I think the .308 rifles of this design are much better than the .223 roller-locked HKs. They kind of tear up brass, maybe less than rumored.

M1A has nice balance, but is trickier to scope. Receiver flexes, and a lot of the M21s had the scope mounts welded to the receiver due to flexing.

I don't see that a good .308 AR is much less reliable or strong than these other rifles. It can easily be scoped, accuracy is as easy as free-floating a match barrel, and price can be equivalent to the others.

All these rifles, as much as everyone seems to think the AR is "reinventing the wheel", are actually pretty much contemporary, having all been designed in the same era, though most of the M1A design kind of goes back to just before WWII, and the G3/HK-91 to the german designs on the drawing boards at the end of WWII.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:30 pm

A fellow let me shoot his SCAR at the range one day and I really liked it. But it was $1800.

I should have bought one then...now they are $2800

During the panic they were 3600!

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:26 am

vancelw wrote:I've looked at the PTRs but their prices seems to still be inflated, where the AR-style .308s have come way down in price.
I'd love to have one. My primary use would be coyotes, so a Rem version is on my mind.

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/images ... t/a3rs.jpg

offered at $919 .......

I haven't seen any AR-10s in this price range. Price isn't everything, but total cost of ownership is something to reckon.

I was surprised at the comment that the hk has a lot of recoil. to me it is very soft shooting, but I compare it to the 99F, which will actually test your denture glue, and makes my guide gun seem tame and civilized.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:30 am

Grizz wrote: I was surprised at the comment that the hk has a lot of recoil. to me it is very soft shooting, but I compare it to the 99F, which will actually test your denture glue, and makes my guide gun seem tame and civilized.

Well, as a rifle, the recoil isn't bad, just a bit harder than other semi-auto .308s. The rifle itself is a neat design. A few years back I bought a pile of aluminum G3 mags for $1.99 each in mostly new condition.

Later, because I already had that big box of mags, I almost built my .260 Rem AR on a lower that uses G3 mags, but the lack of a way to hold the bolt open convinced me to sell that lower.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:09 am

Grizz wrote:
vancelw wrote:I've looked at the PTRs but their prices seems to still be inflated, where the AR-style .308s have come way down in price.
I'd love to have one. My primary use would be coyotes, so a Rem version is on my mind.
https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/images ... t/a3rs.jpg

offered at $919 .......

I haven't seen any AR-10s in this price range. Price isn't everything, but total cost of ownership is something to reckon.

I was surprised at the comment that the hk has a lot of recoil. to me it is very soft shooting, but I compare it to the 99F, which will actually test your denture glue, and makes my guide gun seem tame and civilized.

A quick Google search revealed several Armalite AR-10s and Bushmaster .308s for $999.00 and DPMS for $799.
Even at an 80 dollar difference, the AR-10 is a better deal than a PTR since it has a rail for optics and/or light (Since coyotes would be my main target)

The locals around here were still trying to get their money back on the PTRs they overpaid for a year ago

They are finally needing cash and coming to their senses.

It is a buyers market right now....Until the next media-hyped event.

firefuzz · Post by **firefuzz** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:18 am

Tycer wrote:OK my trusted brothers in arms. How do you feel about the pros and cons of the current Armalite AR-10B series carbines?

Tycer I've never handled one on the Armalite AR10's, but if one broadens your post a little to assume that you're interested in a .308, military style rifle, I'll lend what experience I have with them to the pot.

Back in the late 70's/early 80's I had virtually unlimited access to 5.56 and 7.62 NATO ammo, thanks to a law enforcement friendly armory NCO at a local military installation, and between me and my bud's we owned and fired the M1A's, HK 91's, and FN FAL's and we fired them a lot. (I can only wish I had back half the ammo we wasted playing) Today's current AR10 was NOT available at the time and the originals were scarce as hen's teeth.

Here are the opinions I developed on the these rifles. All are out of the box guns, with only user installable accessories, no built up guns here. Here's the most important piece of advise I can give you on 7.62/.308 caliber MBR's....unless you want to wear both ear plugs and muffs or mount a suppressor on the rifle EVERY time you shoot it STAY AWAY FROM 16" BARRELS. To say the muzzle blast is horrible would be an understatement. I have a 16.5" barreled FAL that has been banned unsuppressed from two indoor ranges and that I refuse to shoot unsuppressed on an out door range if anyone else is near me because of this.

The M1A/M14 rifles, which I will have to admit I have a fondness in my heart for, are robust, pretty accurate with iron sights, readily available mags (getting pricey), and a user friendly platform to operate and maintain. But they are long and heavy and difficult to properly mount a scope on. You will have to have a raised cheek piece on the stock to get a proper cheek weld to be accurate.

I don't like HK91's and any of their clones. They are not user friendly, at least to me, they cabbage brass, and are filthy to clean (worse than any AR15/M16 I ever shot). They are however, almost tank-proof and you probably will never wear one out. I don't know about the PTR guns, but unless you're a cop H&K's customer service sucks. Mounting a scope suffers from the same problems as a M1A.

The FAL/L1A1 is my favorite big-bore MBR. I've built several and if I was going to pick an iron sighted, /308 caliber rifle as my go to gun this would be it. With a properly adjusted gas system, easily done my the user, these rifles have very little recoil. They are very user friendly and easy to maintain and work on, but out of the box probably the least accurate, 2"-2.5" groups @ 100yds is pretty much the norm. But they shoot that hot or cold, clean or filthy dirty. Adding a scope to one that will hold a zero adds so much weight, a decent mount is very heavy and can be improperly installed as to cause the rifle to malfunction, and really doesn't help that much except in maybe identifying a target.

If I was to ever decide to go back to a 7.62/308 military style rifle, which I don't see happening, I'd pick one of the AR10 type rifles to build my system on simply because of the ergonomics of the gun and ease of mounting a optical sight which my aging eyes are in need of more and more each day. In my mind there's no reason that a properly set up AR style rifle in 7.62/308 can't be as accurate or dependable and it's little brother the AR15. A good friend of mine is looking at building up an AR10 in .260 Remington as a long range semi-auto. I'll probably be in on that project and may have to have one.

Hope this helps and PLEASE remember what I said about 16" barrels.

Rob

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:34 am

firefuzz wrote:
Hope this helps and PLEASE remember what I said about 16" barrels.

Rob

Thanks! I was leaning towards a 20" heavy barrel anyway since hunting is my motivation for having one...Now I'm no longer leaning!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:23 pm

I agree on the 20" barrel (or longer), unless you have a 308-capable suppressor (and those are pricey, plus add more length than just going with the longer barrel).

This is the way I would mount a scope on an M1A, if I were going to do so...

http://www.fulton-armory.com/handguards ... ail-2.aspx

http://ultimak.com/m8.htm

There are less pricey 'generic' ones out there, as well.

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:26 pm

I keep ogling a 308 DPMS at the local Wally World for $914 but I have had a FAL for quite a while now. Scoped it with a Redfield 2 3/4 X and it shoots about 2 inch groups if you count the hand charged round. The rounds fired from being chambered by the guns action are much tighter. If I load 2 in the magazine and let the bolt go, then fire the other round after the rifle has loaded itself, I get two distinct groups when I repeat this 4 or 5 times. Maybe it's just this particular rifle but I've seen it happen many times with 1911s.

Treg06 · Post by **Treg06** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:19 pm

You may also want to consider the FNAR Heavy barrel (http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/autolo ... nar-heavy/). I was leaning towards the new Browning BAR Hog Stalker, until my research led me to the FNAR Heavy. It's supposedly more accurate than the Browning and I found a gently used one on GB for almost 50% less than the cost of a new BAR. I hope to put some rounds through it this weekend then try it out on some "Late Afternoon Piggies" !

Treg06

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:50 pm

vancelw wrote:
firefuzz wrote:
Hope this helps and PLEASE remember what I said about 16" barrels.

Rob

Thanks! I was leaning towards a 20" heavy barrel anyway since hunting is my motivation for having one...Now I'm no longer leaning!

I had meant to mention another consideration about barrel length for hunting - velocity determines the max range that any given expanding bullet is going to be effective to. I would not go under 18" for hunting, and even then, using a muzzle device that does not increase noise would be advisable.

20" increases velocity a bit over 18" without being way long. With the long action of the .308 AR, I would consider 18" or 20", but not longer. Concussion from a 16" barrel is rough, and with some brakes or flash hiders, it is completely brutal.

Are you building or buying? Again, I definitely recommend the knights/DPMS pattern rifles over the Armalites.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:46 pm

The FNAR is not compatible with his defensive desires. Ergos aren't great either.

I disagree on barrel lengths. It depends on the action. A 16" FAL or G3 can be brutal. A 16" AR-10, less so. Spoken from having ripped off 400 rounds of 7.62 from a 16" AR-10 in a hurry with nothing more than electronic earpro on.

The 20" heavy barrel is not necessary for your needs. A medium weight barrel is more than enough for what you intend. I prefer 18" in any 7.62 for the best mix of ballistics and handling, especially if you're primarily shooting inside 800m. A 16" will lose enough velocity that past 800 it's not as effective anymore, an 18" gives you a little more room to play with.

If your budget is under $3k I still recommend the M&P10 with a few minor upgrades (freefloat rail, etc), or a lightly customized FAL. A DSA FAL, scoped with a trigger job will get the job done, but it'll be the fat girl at the part. Friendly, reliable and fun to play with, but heavy.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:32 am

Thank you all for your input!!!
I've talked myself out of it again. I just can't justify the cost to the potential need. Again.
The majority of the jobs I could see using it for would be filled by a well tested and trained with AK-47, if I had one.

Until I learned different, I had no idea that a good running AK will hit 12" steel consistently to 225 yards with an aperture sight, mag after mag with milsurp ammo.
My BLR takedown in .358 has been tuned and has a great trigger job and is good for me to 325 and I'm sure with training I can go much farther. My bolt 358/308 is also good to 325 with either barrel ( that's the farthest I'll hunt and therefore trained at) and I'm sure I can go much farther with training. I have solid apertures and Trijicon and Leupold scopes ranging from 1x-9x for all.
I should just buy more ammo and another training course.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:52 am

Tycer wrote:I should just buy more ammo and another training course.

Probably a wise thought for all of us.....but buying more guns is more fun....!

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:32 pm

Tycer wrote: The majority of the jobs I could see using it for would be filled by a well tested and trained with AK-47, if I had one. Until I learned different, I had no idea that a good running AK will hit 12" steel consistently to 225 yards with an aperture sight, mag after mag with milsurp ammo.

One thing to consider, though, is that the 7.62x39 becomes limited in its effectiveness at longer ranges. It reaches the point where the ability to hit a certain target at a certain range does not mean that you would want to hit that target with that cartridge. If you are looking for a do everything rifle, you might want to consider another cartridge. If you want an intermediate-sized cartridge, you might think about 6.5 Grendel, which has the benefits of cheap ammo, but good performance at any reasonable range.

On the other hand, if everything you need to do with your do everything rifle is covered by the 7.62x39, then the AK might be fine for what you need, or even better, a vz.58.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:38 pm

7.62 Precision wrote:
Tycer wrote: The majority of the jobs I could see using it for would be filled by a well tested and trained with AK-47, if I had one. Until I learned different, I had no idea that a good running AK will hit 12" steel consistently to 225 yards with an aperture sight, mag after mag with milsurp ammo.
you might want to consider another cartridge.

Nooooooooo!!! I've tried so hard to trim down my selection!!!

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:55 pm

Tycer wrote:Thank you all for your input!!!
I've talked myself out of it again. I just can't justify the cost to the potential need. Again.
.

Ugh

story of my life. I have the necessities of firearms life taken care of (and some of the luxuries). But am at the point where I cannot afford to add any more to the stable un less some are either sold or traded

(but if i come across a decent deal on an 1892 td in 45, i will be a tradin' fool once again

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:04 pm

Tycer wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote: you might want to consider another cartridge.
Nooooooooo!!! I've tried so hard to trim down my selection!!!

That is not the right answer to the problem.

The the liberal progressives actually have the solution to the problem. No, not turning your guns in for a Big Mac coupon in the next buy-back event. I mean embracing diversity.

Diversity is important in our world today, which is why I recommend buying a .32 Special rifle even if you already have a .30-30. Got a .45-70? Well, you are not being culturally inclusive unless you also have a .45-75 and a .45-90 and a .45-110. And don't forget the .450 Marlin and .450 Alaskan and .457 WWM.

And don't limit yourself to Winchesters; you would not want to be considered intolerant of Marlins and Remingtons and Savages.

Remember to be racially inclusive as well. Make sure you have Japanese-made leverguns and bolt rifles, Chinese replicas or AKs, but not without including an Eastern European AK and a Russian Mosin Nagant. You cannot ignore South America, so don't forget the Rossi or Ballester-Molina, and a Tavor from Israel is a necessity, lest you be considered anti-Semitic. To show solidarity with socialistic labor causes, be sure to pick up some of the cute little pistols produced in the former eastern-bloc countries, and celebrate the end of apartheid with a clone of a South African Galil. Don't forget to celebrate European culture, and commemorate long-standing neutrality and non-participation in war when you also own a Swiss K31.

You see how free and enlightened your life can become when you throw off narrow-minded bigotry and embrace life with a liberal-progressive view of gun ownership? Pelosi would be proud of me!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:49 pm

7.62 Precision wrote:
Tycer wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote: you might want to consider another cartridge.
Nooooooooo!!! I've tried so hard to trim down my selection!!!
Diversity is important in our world today, which is why I recommend buying a .32 Special rifle even if you already have a .30-30. Got a .45-70? Well, you are not being culturally inclusive unless you also have a .45-75 and a .45-90 and a .45-110. And don't forget the .450 Marlin and .450 Alaskan and .457 WWM.

And don't limit yourself to Winchesters; you would not want to be considered intolerant of Marlins and Remingtons and Savages.

Remember to be racially inclusive as well. Make sure you have Japanese-made leverguns and bolt rifles, Chinese replicas or AKs, but not without including an Eastern European AK and a Russian Mosin Nagant. You cannot ignore South America, so don't forget the Rossi or Ballester-Molina, and a Tavor from Israel is a necessity, lest you be considered anti-Semitic. To show solidarity with socialistic labor causes, be sure to pick up some of the cute little pistols produced in the former eastern-bloc countries, and celebrate the end of apartheid with a clone of a South African Galil. Don't forget to celebrate European culture, and commemorate long-standing neutrality and non-participation in war when you also own a Swiss K31.

You see how free and enlightened your life can become when you throw off narrow-minded bigotry and embrace life with a liberal-progressive view of gun ownership? Pelosi would be proud of me!

THAT is why 44MagHunter and I sometimes wear these T-shirts...especially if we are going to someplace LibTards may be...

http://www.thoseshirts.com/diversity.html

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:18 pm

Streetstar wrote:
Tycer wrote:Thank you all for your input!!!
I've talked myself out of it again. I just can't justify the cost to the potential need. Again.
.

Ugh story of my life. I have the necessities of firearms life taken care of (and some of the luxuries). But am at the point where I cannot afford to add any more to the stable un less some are either sold or traded

(but if i come across a decent deal on an 1892 td in 45, i will be a tradin' fool once again

Dammmit --- mere hours after i posted this, my LGS had a standard walnut M1A w/ some mags, a case and a springfield scope mount for the price of a Bushmaster AR-10 from Wally World (1200 ) ---- a $400 swipe of the credit card and it was in layaway
Know its not a "bigger black rifle" but fits the spirit of the post ---- obviously , since we all seem to appreciate stuff with walnut (and put up with black rifles too ) - i will post a range report when i take possesion

-- I am scrutinizing my gun closet tonight seeing what will be up for sale soon and what will not

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:31 pm

congrats on the new rifle

is it only a matter of time for Tycer ?

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:55 pm

Streetstar wrote:Know its not a "bigger black rifle" but fits the spirit of the post ---- obviously , since we all seem to appreciate stuff with walnut (and put up with black rifles too ) - i will post a range report when i take possesion

-- I am scrutinizing my gun closet tonight seeing what will be up for sale soon and what will not

Been there done that... haven't found a cure yet...

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:38 pm

Streetstar wrote: my LGS had a standard walnut M1A w/ some mags, a case and a springfield scope mount for the price of a Bushmaster AR-10 from Wally World (1200 ) ---- a $400 swipe of the credit card and it was in layaway

And THAT is why God made credit cards

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:25 am

Streetstar wrote: Know its not a "bigger black rifle" but fits the spirit of the post ---- obviously , since we all seem to appreciate stuff with walnut . . .

That is because all REAL rifles wear walnut, though maple is also more than acceptable. I just put up with plastic and aluminum for the sake of diversity . . .

Talk to me about magazines

.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:21 am

Smith Enterprises and the LaRue LT139 mounted backwards are the only two M14 scope mounts I'll vouch for actually working correctly.

I wouldn't give an ARMS mount to anyone on our side of the fight, and the original Springfield mount.....well, it works. Some of the time.

Getting an M1A to STAY MOA accurate is the issue. If you'll settle for 2-3 MOA as it was intended, they shoot very well.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:46 am

MrMurphy wrote:Smith Enterprises and the LaRue LT139 mounted backwards are the only two M14 scope mounts I'll vouch for actually working correctly.

I wouldn't give an ARMS mount to anyone on our side of the fight, and the original Springfield mount.....well, it works. Some of the time.

Getting an M1A to STAY MOA accurate is the issue. If you'll settle for 2-3 MOA as it was intended, they shoot very well.

I'm not too worried about it --- thet only m-14 variants i can think of that can consistently be under a moa are pretty heavilly "breathed on" with a ton of work in stock bedding as well as trigger --- i also hear the Troy half chassis will turn it into a different animal,

But, the scope mount was just a value added spiff, - i will likely just tinker away with iron sights, --

That said, i am not a superb shot anyway - i always qualified expert in the Army, but anybody who's done that knows its not a supreme test

Now at my age (early 40's- not that old but im starting to feel the errors of a reckless youth) my eyes twitch and the cartilage in my shooting hand thumb is so torn up from other sports that it can be hard to hold anything under 2 moa except for an AR or my 22 target rifle

I dare say that because of my very close proximity to an indoor shooting range vs a 30 mile drive to an outdoor range suitable for bigger stuff, that im becoming a much more capable pistolero than a rifleman

All that aside, It was just cool to shoulder that M1a and think to myself
"Dang! This is my dad's rifle!".
He served in an aviation unit of the 1st Infantry Division at Phu Loi at the height of the Tet offensive and used an M14

44magHunter · Post by **44magHunter** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:30 am

AJMD429 wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote:
Tycer wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote: you might want to consider another cartridge.
Nooooooooo!!! I've tried so hard to trim down my selection!!!
Diversity is important in our world today, which is why I recommend buying a .32 Special rifle even if you already have a .30-30. Got a .45-70? Well, you are not being culturally inclusive unless you also have a .45-75 and a .45-90 and a .45-110. And don't forget the .450 Marlin and .450 Alaskan and .457 WWM.

And don't limit yourself to Winchesters; you would not want to be considered intolerant of Marlins and Remingtons and Savages.

Remember to be racially inclusive as well. Make sure you have Japanese-made leverguns and bolt rifles, Chinese replicas or AKs, but not without including an Eastern European AK and a Russian Mosin Nagant. You cannot ignore South America, so don't forget the Rossi or Ballester-Molina, and a Tavor from Israel is a necessity, lest you be considered anti-Semitic. To show solidarity with socialistic labor causes, be sure to pick up some of the cute little pistols produced in the former eastern-bloc countries, and celebrate the end of apartheid with a clone of a South African Galil. Don't forget to celebrate European culture, and commemorate long-standing neutrality and non-participation in war when you also own a Swiss K31.

You see how free and enlightened your life can become when you throw off narrow-minded bigotry and embrace life with a liberal-progressive view of gun ownership? Pelosi would be proud of me!
THAT is why 44MagHunter and I sometimes wear these T-shirts...especially if we are going to someplace LibTards may be...

http://www.thoseshirts.com/diversity.html

Unfortunately my body has out-grown that shirt. I need a new one....

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:40 pm

My dad went over in '68 with an M14, his was one of the last units to have them.

After a while he went to an original M16, then an A1.

He apparently shot quite a few guys with both, as well as the 60 and 1911.

He didn't favor one over the other except the 14 for long range/16 in close mostly. Carried the A2 in the Gulf War, as well as an 870, never fired either.