Birdshot for guy climbing in bedroom window...

[AJMD429]

http://bearingarms.com/theres-reason-ca ... aign=nl_pm

I would have thought it would still have been lethal, if a center-torso hit. Amazing.

[Grizz]

common mis-conception. had he unloaded it into the face the results might have improved.

I certainly would not shoot a deer with birdshot, it makes no sense to shoot an invader-thug-terrorist with birdshot. But the man came out alright. His thug-spray worked that day, the terrorist ran away.

The man better arm up for the re-run though.

[Blaine]

I'm a little surprised, but the Box o Truth agrees with the verdict. Better aim for the face.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-t ... x-o-truth/

[octagon]

Knew A fella shot himself in the calf with birdshot while crossing a fence (20g), blew the muscle right off, but he did not lose the leg, though it must have been point blank range.

[765x53]

The mistake made here was the publicity.
The intruder was deterred and left the scene. There was no need to involve the authorities or anyone else.
It was the perfect outcome until he started talking.

[SteveR]

The mistake made here was the publicity.
The intruder was deterred and left the scene. There was no need to involve the authorities or anyone else.
It was the perfect outcome until he started talking.

Good point!! Never ever say anything. As an old Skynyrd song said it the best, "the police job is to put you in the jail."

Steve

[MrMurphy]

Birdshot does not reliably penetrate. I "NEVER" recommend it for any sort of defense unless that's literally all that's available.

Not to say people haven't been killed by it, but it's not reliable.

Seen a guy blow his face off (and live) attempting suicide by 12 gauge. Bone stopped most of the load. The rest blew his nose, eyeballs, lips, etc right off.

On the other side of things I know of a case (not personally) where a homeowner socked a burglar in the face with a load of #8. All 200 or whatever pellets impacted the guy's jaw and while messy, he'd have lived. Except one little pellet, late to the party, went under the jaw and brained him. Dead before he hit the floor.

I'd say the "not reliable" vs "dead right there" ratio with birdshot is about 25 to 1 though.

I personally know a cop who hit a guy (center mass, with observed solid hits and an autopsy later) with four rounds of 00 buck and finally finished the guy with a .40 to the head (down, but still going for a weapon). And he wasn't on anything illegal. If 36 .33 pellets didn't do it, hundreds of itty bitty BBs aren't likely to either.

[7.62 Precision]

The mistake made here was the publicity.
The intruder was deterred and left the scene. There was no need to involve the authorities or anyone else.
It was the perfect outcome until he started talking.

Except that the guy shows up at a hospital to get pellets removed, police are called to investigate, he tells where it happened, and the court wants to know why you didn't report it. Might not change the outcome, or it might. A lot depends on where it happens.

[FWiedner]

... and the court wants to know why you didn't report it.

Thought I heard a coyote after my chickens.

I ain't never seen that feller.

[Grizz]

if you cut the top off of the birdshot and saturate it with melted parafin, you get different results. I've done this with 20ga buck rounds and 12ga birdshot, and it does change the nature of the impact. plenty of video on u2oobUniversity.

the best use for birdshot is to dump it and insert a .69 ball into the cup.

whole 'nother 'ball'-game

[Blaine]

if you cut the top off of the birdshot and saturate it with melted parafin, you get different results. I've done this with 20ga buck rounds and 12ga birdshot, and it does change the nature of the impact. plenty of video on u2oobUniversity.

the best use for birdshot is to dump it and insert a .69 ball into the cup.

whole 'nother 'ball'-game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3M46XVfVOU

[piller]

Good information. I was one of those who thought birdshot would be a good idea. I am glad to know that I should change my thinking now and not after a bad situation.

[horsesoldier03]

I have never tried the parafin trick. However, when I got my first gun, a Winchester Model 37 12ga, the first thing my grandfather did was show me the CUT SHELL trick. He stated that back in the old days, deer were few and far between and no one ever purchased slugs or buckshot due to the high cost. However, he stated that he has taken many a deer with cut shells. All I know is that it worked on the one I shot.

[2X22]

Seen a guy blow his face off (and live) attempting suicide by 12 gauge. Bone stopped most of the load. The rest blew his nose, eyeballs, lips, etc right off.

Yep, this happened to a good friend of mine. Went out to our trap range and sat down in front of the traphouse and put his shotgun barrel in his mouth and using a standard 12 ga trap load, ended up only blowing his face off. He lived for hours alone, then a few more in the hospital. Awful

Another guy I know used a trap load in a chopped off 20ga and shot someone he considered an enemy right in the face at about 10'. He ended up in prison, the guy shot (a real scumbag drug dealer who deserved shot) ended up in the ER with half his face shot off, including losing an eye, but went on to live another 15 years or so, dying of a heart attack just a few days before his shooter was released from prison.

[Blaine]

One thing Fo Sho, you are going to adjust their attitude with a load of 8s in the upper torso.

[Paladin]

Thanks all for the posts, some good info.

[2X22]

One thing Fo Sho, you are going to adjust their attitude with a load of 8s in the upper torso.

[Streetstar]

Ok, now i gotta break out my seldom used 870 and try that cut shell trick


And yes, it is loadEd up with 7 or 8 rounds of birdshot -- (i knew better , but its primary use is to fire up in the air at a 45 degree angle on birthdays, weddings and holidays

[mikld]

and the court wants to know why you didn't report it

"I thought I missed".

I was one of those that thought a load of birdshot at close range was liken to a solid chunk o' lead. Live and learn...

[Merle]

http://bearingarms.com/theres-reason-ca ... aign=nl_pm

I would have thought it would still have been lethal, if a center-torso hit. Amazing.

Amazingly enough, this birdshot stuff just won't go away.

[Dewight]

Stop and think about it. How many through and through shots have you seen on ducks, pheasants, quail or doves?

[Blaine]

Heck If that's all you have, aim for the crotch, or face.....I suspect you'll change his attitude PDQ..... (full choke advised) Personally, my 870 Tac is loaded with 00. I DO have some steel BBB 3" magnums I'd like to try on something sturdy just to check it out.....

[Panzercat]

Jeff disagrees.

[Blaine]

Jeff disagrees.

Jeff is usually correct.....

[jkbrea]

Over the years at work I've seen bullets do weird things. Saw a bad guy shot 4 times in the head through a windshield with .45 ACP while he went for a .44. All went into his skull area but he lived. Walking talking, and committing crimes for a few more years till he died of related issues. I've seen a few gang bangers killed with bird shot, usually close range, one accidental while he was looking down the barrel to see if it was loaded and pulled the trigger....it was. They buy bird shot for their stolen or sawed off shotguns because its cheap and they don't know any better. I remember in my academy days hearing about a cop shot from across a street with bird shot. He died instantly and it was believed he had a heart attack because they could not find a wound. It took the coroner a long time to find out one single pellet hit him under the arm where his vest didn't cover him and hit his heart.
In reference to the original post, the homeowner did stop the intruder and was not harmed so it "worked". Most departments I know would not have charged him, even here in California. I've been to a few calls where homeowners have fired at intruders and heard of several in adjoining agencies over the years. The last was an 80+ yr old woman who fired at an intruder in her house and missed. He left his bike in her yard as he ran as fast as he could. No cases were ever filed. A report is written and submitted to the DA for review. It's the DA's decision whether to file or not. I would have called and had them collect any trace evidence to show the intruder was inside the home. As stated earlier, the crook could say he was just walking outside, or knocking at the door, etc. I really doubt most people would shoot the guy and just not say anything. The basic rule is once the immediate threat is gone, you can't shoot, meaning if the intruder surrenders or runs when confronted and is going out the door or window, don't shoot him in the back. Now....if you can get him to turn back around..........

[7.62 Precision]

Most departments I know would not have charged him, even here in California.

I have noticed a general reluctance among most police officers, even in more liberal states, to want to see charges brought against innocent people who are truly defending their lives. While I know there are certain departments that have a different culture, and individual officers that are a problem, most of the officers I have met are on our side.

By the way, birdshot can and does kill just fine. It also can and does cause superficial wounds and leave a threat still mobile and functional. .22 LR and .25 ACP can both do the same, so can .45 ACP, but .45 ACP has proven to be a much more reliable killer, or we would all be carrying .22s.

An important consideration is speed of incapacitation.

I prefer an AR carbine and Mk 262 5.56 to a shotgun for home defense. It is superior in almost every way.

[Grizz]

suppose a guy were stuck with a 300 (can we still say blackout?),

what would be your in house-yard-car ammo?