Mossberg 464, Rossi, or.......?

[MrMurphy]

I don't particularly "need" a new rifle. I have a Mauser (scoped) and several other bolt actions that will kill anything in N. America if really necessary.

However I've been looking at a utility rifle in the Any Moron Can Use It category.

.30-30 is plentiful and available, and will kill anything that I'm likely to hunt (up to black bear) anytime soon.

I'm no Winchester or Marlin expert. I've owned a 1894 in .44 and a Glenfield 30 in .30-30 over the years. I don't want to inherit potential problems, not being an expert in what to look for.

In the "new" market, for a rifle that will have an aperature rear sight (significant other and I both are trained on the M16), it appears the two options other than the debatable-quality Marlins, are the Rossi Rio Grande and the Mossberg.

I've handled a couple 464s but not shot one. Have not handled a Rossi except for 92 clones.

Good and bad with both? Ease of disassembly for cleaning? (Military types, we actually DO clean them thoroughly, not just a boresnake once a year). I know Marlins take down with 1 screw, not sure on the others.

Other options you can suggest in the $350-500 price range? Iron sighted only with the option of a scope.

[7.62 Precision]

My first recommendation is to find a used 94 Winchester or 336 Marlin.

Either can be easily found in that price range including pre '64/post war 94s. The early '70s to just before the cross bolt safety and side eject are actually really good rifles too, and can be had very reasonably.

Marlins are a touch higher used than they were before Marlin quality dropped, but still easily within your price range.

If you don't care abut cosmetics, you can really get a deal on either. I like both, but prefer Winchesters a bit. Others prefer Marlins. Either will serve well.

As far as newly built rifles go, I have heard of people having both good and bad luck with both the RG and Mossberg. I might lean toward the Mossberg, but I don't know enough about either from personal experience to be comfortably recommending either one. I remember there are a couple people on this forum who have had good experiences with the Mossberg, though.

[Grizz]

I would prefer a middle-age or older winchester, middle-aged marlin, or a miroku, to the others, just because.

imo mirokus are the best made of those three, except for the antiques, and the mirokus made before lawyer-stupidity are the best of those.

I have not owned a mossberg lever action. the one rossi in the house is a stainless 45, is as well made as many of the ones I listed, but has a very thin barrel compared to winchesters and marlins. I prefer heavier barrels, something like the guide gun. I don't worry too much about bending it when I fall down. The stainless rossi makes me cautious because it seems delicate. It is a beauty though.

Grizz

[Blaine]

Does it have to be a lever?
I sure like the Ruger Gun Site Scout....it's more than 500, though.

[octagon]

MrMurphy I would suggest, as Sixgun did the other day, that the 94 Commemoratives are dern good bang for the buck, and a slightly used one would be in that price range, although not easily meeting your scope requirements. I find that after using the 30-30 for almost 40 years, it is the perfect all around killer in Texas, and very versatile in 125, 150, and 170 grains with an extra heavy octagon 26" barrel. I especially like Sierra 125 HPs and 150 Corelokt.

[Tycer]

Other options you can suggest in the $350-500 price range? Iron sighted only with the option of a scope.

I don't own a Marlin 336 however the scope option pretty much limits you to the Marlin for a tried and true lever that's easy to get the bolt out of. Don't know how to strip the Rossi. The Mossy has had some reliability issues noted on this board. There is the Henry, but I'd go 1970's Marlin if I had to have the scope option.

[MrMurphy]

The Roger Scout would be perfect except the price. Except for one Parkerized 94 seen a year ago for 300 I haven't seen a used 94 or 336 I'd buy for under 450.

[Streetstar]

Other options you can suggest in the $350-500 price range? Iron sighted only with the option of a scope.

I don't own a Marlin 336 however the scope option pretty much limits you to the Marlin for a tried and true lever that's easy to get the bolt out of. Don't know how to strip the Rossi. The Mossy has had some reliability issues noted on this board. There is the Henry, but I'd go 1970's Marlin if I had to have the scope option.

I have several AE model Winchesters --- those can be easilly scoped ---

[Tristan]

You might have a good one in that Glenfield model 30, if you still have it. It's a Marlin in disguise.

I'm still looking for one, myself.

[MrMurphy]

I stupidly sold it in 2002.

It had a Weaver K4 in the original mount, probably from the original owner, shot great.


The rifle doesn't "have" to be scoped, but keeping the option would be nice. For what's basically a 100-125 yard rifle, 99% likely it would have a Lyman or similar aperature rear sight installed and nothing else. Both my significant other and I have spent years with the M16 and shoot aperatures better than anything when it comes to irons.

I'm primarily looking at new rifles, since the current crop of used lever guns is pretty slim. Thus the question.

[BenT]

I would stick with American made, not that Rossi are bad. Get a Mossberg or Henry. Go handle both and see how they feel.

[Tycer]

Other options you can suggest in the $350-500 price range? Iron sighted only with the option of a scope.

I don't own a Marlin 336 however the scope option pretty much limits you to the Marlin for a tried and true lever that's easy to get the bolt out of. Don't know how to strip the Rossi. The Mossy has had some reliability issues noted on this board. There is the Henry, but I'd go 1970's Marlin if I had to have the scope option.

I have several AE model Winchesters --- those can be easily scoped ---

Yes, however getting the bolt out of a Win is much more complicated.

[M. M. Wright]

+1 to 7.62 and Grizz

[Treeman72]

My mossberg is a tough, well made rifle. With 150 weight bullets, the groups are about 3". The 170 corelokts will group 1.5" every time.

It took about 200 rounds to smooth out the action.

[mikld]

the two options other than the debatable-quality Marlins, are the Rossi Rio Grande and the Mossberg.

Well 2 answers outta 14 posts ain't bad, I guess....

FWIW; I own a Rossi Puma in .44 Magnum (92 clone) and I have mebbe 1,000+ rounds through it. Once I figgered what bullet it likes, I have had zero problems. I installed a Williams receiver sight and it shoots pretty good. I haven't heard anything about the Mossbergs lately (for their first year the reviews were pretty bad), but I would consider the Henrys also (made in USA and very good customer service).

[Griff]

I think that for your stated requirements, .30-30, ease of cleaning, scope option, a Marlin 336 would be at the top of my list, but, a Mossberg or Henry wouldn't be that far behind. I have a Marlin 375 for just those same reasons... plus the added power for big hogs. It has an old Weaver K4, but I'm thinking of tradin' it in on a good 1-4x variable.

Possibly upgraded to my 2nd choice after 86er's Review: Henry Repeating Arms 30-30 H009 and H009B. It's only negative (for me), is the lack of a side loading gate.

A mdl 94AE ain't that hard to disassemble, but... there is that one pin to drive out, (lever-bolt pin). And it has the distinct advantage over all others, again for me, of being the easiest to carry in hand, of any centerfire except the handle equipped AR15/M16.

My 16" Trapper is the cat's meow for carrying, and still suitable for reliable hits on the 300 meter pig off a rest... like ALL that I shot. The 400 meter turkey was a little safer (6 of 10 hits), with the 500 meter ram being "safe", unless he died of fright! I just didn't find the right drop, but peppered the dirt around it... plus the wind had picked up. Maybe...

If you wanna talk about 'em in more detail, drop me a pm w/a ph. #, I ain't doin' anything except drivin' from IA down to TX today & tomorrow.

[Panzercat]

If your choice is in 30-30, then you can still find used marlins for reasonable prices. Not necessarily so if your looking for pistol calibers, at which point your only choice becomes Rossi, a single henry offering in 44 and pricy uberti models.

Fit and finish on Rossi products can be rough. I would not advise buying unless you could inspect the rifle in hand before purchase. They appear to be reliable unless you're buying a theroetically multicalber levergun, like their 357 or 454. I always mention Rossi in the same breath as "buyer beware".

Mossberg makes a solid 30-30. Its reasonably priced and they have better QC in my opinion. There is no pistol caliber option at present.

Old marlins are desirable for pretty much anything, and about the only critisim I can bring to bear is that they are also heavier than their market counterparts. New marlins are pretty meh and Remington hasn't been a good steward of the brand. Do not buy a new marlin sight unseen.

I have no opinion on henry other than all of their lever products are tube loaded. Yuck.

Uberti also has a few leverguns in a number of calibers, but you'll be paying a premium price for them. I have no information on quality save that they look pretty.

Hope that helps.

[MrMurphy]

Henry is not in the running due to lack of a gate.

Decent used .30-30s have been thin around here for years in the right price range but I also haven't looked in the last few months.

[Tristan]

I stupidly sold it in 2002.

It had a Weaver K4 in the original mount, probably from the original owner, shot great.


The rifle doesn't "have" to be scoped, but keeping the option would be nice. For what's basically a 100-125 yard rifle, 99% likely it would have a Lyman or similar aperature rear sight installed and nothing else. Both my significant other and I have spent years with the M16 and shoot aperatures better than anything when it comes to irons.

I'm primarily looking at new rifles, since the current crop of used lever guns is pretty slim. Thus the question.

Well, as others have pointed out a Winchester will carry better than a Marlin, but the Marlin is easier to put a scope on if that's a possibility. I've noticed that as I get older the eyes don't take to the open sights as well as they used to.

Don't know if you're interested in reloading, but if so the 30-30 is a great one to load for. Cast bullets can be driven up to factory speeds, or loaded down for quieter/plinking/small game/streching the powder supply... Lots of well tested data available for the venerable cartridge, too.

I just made a trip to gunbroker.com and am pretty surprised at the prices the lowly Glenfield model 30a is asking these days. I've passed up a half-dozen over the years for between 100-190, and now the ask is starting at $350... I always was in the market for 'something else' at the time... :-/

Let us know what you end up with, and pics are manditory.

[Panzercat]

Henry is not in the running due to lack of a gate. Decent used .30-30s have been thin around here for years in the right price range but I also haven't looked in the last few months.

If the used market is thin, then i would have to say a Mossberg. A Rossi will work, but I'd even go so far as to run a dummy round through the action just to get a feel for it before purchase.

[1894c]

Marlin 336...the new REM-Marlins (recently) aren't that bad either...check out their youth model 16"-bbl, almost tactical... :)

[7.62 Precision]

Decent used .30-30s have been thin around here for years in the right price range but I also haven't looked in the last few months.

You might try gunbroker.

[tman]

If I were buying a brand new 30-30, it would be, hands down, the mossberg. Another opinion is to save a little more money and get a pre 64 Winchester 94. It's cheaper to buy what you want the 1st time, even if ,it initially costs more.

[MrMurphy]

If I go the used route, it'll be a Marlin. They shoulder and point better for me, and the iron sight options are better (XS Sights), as well as stripping easier.

They're just getting real hard to find without costing half a grand.

I was mostly looking for actual end user experience with the two new guns, as all the posts regarding them are a year+ old.

I don't currently reload, though a friend gifted me a Rock Chucker and 7mm Mauser dies for my Mauser. I still have no clue what to do with all of it...... a "step 1-25" type list of what the heck you do in reloading would be nice, but even the reloading manuals seem to deliberately be confusing.

[Griff]

If I go the used route, it'll be a Marlin. They shoulder and point better for me, and the iron sight options are better (XS Sights), as well as stripping easier.

They're just getting real hard to find without costing half a grand.

I was mostly looking for actual end user experience with the two new guns, as all the posts regarding them are a year+ old.

I don't currently reload, though a friend gifted me a Rock Chucker and 7mm Mauser dies for my Mauser. I still have no clue what to do with all of it...... a "step 1-25" type list of what the heck you do in reloading would be nice, but even the reloading manuals seem to deliberately be confusing.

Something like this:

Reloading: A 25-Step Program

Many folks seem to feel that beginning to reload is intimidating. Relax, you’re not wrong. But, it’s not complicated… you just need to take certain precautions and pay attention to the details. This list is not all inclusive, but should provide an overview of the necessary steps to progress once you’ve acquired all the necessary tools and equipment.

We’ll start with the understanding that you have a press, dies, powder measure & scale, vibratory or rotary brass cleaner; along with fired brass, bullets, new primers, and at least ONE reloading manual that covers loads in the caliber you intend to reload. Along the way, you’ll find that I’ve added a few things to the list above, but… trust me, they’re only added for convenience.

1. Dump your once-fired (or more, it really matters not as long as the brass is free of cracks, severe dents or shows signs of corrosion), into the tumbler with either crushed walnut or corncob media for a thorough cleaning.

2. Remove the brass from the media…

3. Using either spray or a lube tray, lube your brass.

4. Put the 1st piece of brass in the shell-holder on the ram and raise the ram into the sizing/decapping die. Lower the ram. At this point you can elect to install the new primer if your press is equipped with a priming station. If you handle each primer, make sure you do so with the hand other than the one moving the cases on and off the press to ensure they don’t get contaminated with the case lube. If you decide to prime by other means, do so between steps 6 & 7.

5. Remove your 1st sized and deprimed case. At this point I’ll add that a tray to hold your cases as your progress thru the reloading process is a nice “have”. It’s not necessary, but will keep you better organized. Repeat as necessary!

6. Once your cases are all (or as many as you like), wipe the outside of the case free of any excess lube. Some folks put theirs back thru the tumbler to do this… but I feel this just contaminates the media, shortening its usable life. Some folks also lube the inside of their case necks… I’ve never done this, so will not speak to it.

7. Now begins the process to select a powder, bullet and charge. Here I recommend that one have as many sources of information as practicable. May I suggest Lyman’s 49th Reloading Manual. This manual, among others, provides some guidance to your potential most accurate load. Depending upon your bullet selection, different powders may provide the most accurate loading. Most manuals list a minimum and maximum charge. Depending on the condition of the firearm, there are several theories about where to start… If the firearms is new or of recent manufacture (figure post WWII as recent), I recommend starting at the midpoint between min and max recommended charges… and set your scale for this amount (by weight).

8. Fill your powder measure with the selected powder and begin dropping charges, adjusting the flow volume until you are dropping within a few tenths of a grain under the selected charge. I then trickle in a few kernals of powder until the scale reads the exact amount. You can do this by rolling a few kernals off your fingers (insuring they are not contaminated), or via a “powder trickler”. Another piece of equipment that comes in handy on the reloading bench.

9. Dump the measured powder charge into your primed, cleaned newly sized case.

10. Here again, a loading tray is a handy device… but have no fear, again it isn’t necessary, as you can just then take the case with the powder inside and set it in the case holder on your press’s ram.

11. Now, making sure that you have a seating die installed in the press, set your bullet on the mouth of the case and raise the ram to seat the bullet to the desired depth to attain your preferred overall length. You can do this in two manners. One is by simply raising the ram until you think the bullet is seated properly, then removing it and measuring, the other is to adjust the die so that your seating depth is repeatable whenever you use that case and bullet combination. I prefer doing this once with a uncharged and unprimed case to retain with my die set as the “control” round to ensure my dies are properly adjusted every time I install them in my press.

12. Depending on your die set, you can also adjust seating/crimp dies so that they will do both at the same time… This complicates the proper adjustment of the dies… but not overly so, as I’ve mastered it.

Now, after you’ve repeated the above for as many times as you have cases to reload, or you get tired, or just don’t feel like continuing, you’re almost done.

13. Empty the powder measure back into the powder’s original container. Do this religiously! You don’t ever want to mix powders. Just figure BAD things will result.

14. Put your unused bullets away.

15. Put your unused primers away in their original container also.

I sure wish I could make this go a full 25 steps… but it just ain’t that complicated.

I also know that someone will disagree with the above, telling you that you need to "...do this..." or "...do that..."! But, the most important thing I think you can do, is to identify someone that already reloads among your co-workers, fellow shooters, range buddies, etc., and ask them to help you find your way into the reloading game. I will jokingly suggest you check them for all their fingers, eyes, etc., but truthfully, some folks lose those in other endeavors. But, if they are... I'd still ask!

Seriously, a shooting partner that also reloads, if they're serious about it, is a boon to your own advancement in understanding the ins and outs of reloading.

[7.62 Precision]

I was mostly looking for actual end user experience with the two new guns, as all the posts regarding them are a year+ old.

Wish I had actual experience with these to help you out. I have not shot either, just handled some of the Mossbergs several years back. I have been trying to think of anyone I know who has either, but can't think of anyone.

I remember who on the board has at least one Mossberg, though - COsteve.

If I remember right, he likes them.

[Panzercat]

I was mostly looking for actual end user experience with the two new guns, as all the posts regarding them are a year+ old.

My Mossy 464 experience in a nutshell:

Pros:
Well made, good fit and finish.
Lighter than marlin counterpart.
Strengthened Winchester hybrid action.
Drilled for scopes.
Tang mounted safety. No tiny receiver button.
Mossberg backing should issues arise.

Cons:
Winchester ejection design. Special scope accommodations.
Spongy lever grip safety. Started out liking it, but found it ultimately hard in some situations to gauge correct pressure beyond a hard choke.
"Mossberg" doesn't get you lever gun street cred.

Overall, I liked mine. The 16in package pointed naturally and once it was broken in, rarely gave me a hickup beyond the hickups all leverguns exhibit from time to time. Having owned both, I ultimately think the (old) marlin is still a better laid out firearm, however. If you're not likely to come across an old marlin soon, the mossberg is a pretty good stand in. If I could convince them to make a pistol caliber, they'd probably annihilate Rossi's market share.

[.45colt]

Buy an older Marlin or Glenfield model 30. You can easily set it up any way You want, scope , receiver sights, and stocks . shoot lots and be Happy. .

[Streetstar]

Other options you can suggest in the $350-500 price range? Iron sighted only with the option of a scope.

I don't own a Marlin 336 however the scope option pretty much limits you to the Marlin for a tried and true lever that's easy to get the bolt out of. Don't know how to strip the Rossi. The Mossy has had some reliability issues noted on this board. There is the Henry, but I'd go 1970's Marlin if I had to have the scope option.

I have several AE model Winchesters --- those can be easily scoped ---

Yes, however getting the bolt out of a Win is much more complicated.

Sure, but kind of a moot point---- how often do you really need to remove the bolt. Not very often

[Tycer]

Sure, but kind of a moot point---- how often do you really need to remove the bolt. Not very often

I inferred that it was one of his desires in the OP."Ease of disassembly for cleaning? (Military types, we actually DO clean them thoroughly, not just a bore snake once a year)"

[Streetstar]

Sure, but kind of a moot point---- how often do you really need to remove the bolt. Not very often

I inferred that it was one of his desires in the OP."Ease of disassembly for cleaning? (Military types, we actually DO clean them thoroughly, not just a bore snake once a year)"

We do???? I'm a "military type". I clean mine when they need it and prefer not to waste time with a lot of unnecessary fluff--- a model 94 Winchester (or any lever rifle I can think of) does not need to be dismantled for cleaning with any frequency unless being used in extreme conditions

[MrMurphy]

I ran 500 rounds through the Glenfield with nothing more than a boresnake.

But I was happy that the design, for a civilian hunting rifle, needed a single screw for takedown and didn't require three arms, two heads, a vise grip, two punches and tweezers to disassemble when it "is" necessary.

I grew up on bolt actions, and being able to pull the bolt in a second flat is nice. Problem is finding a short, handy bolt action with irons that doesn't cost $900.....

[Streetstar]

I ran 500 rounds through the Glenfield with nothing more than a boresnake.

But I was happy that the design, for a civilian hunting rifle, needed a single screw for takedown and didn't require three arms, two heads, a vise grip, two punches and tweezers to disassemble when it "is" necessary.

I grew up on bolt actions, and being able to pull the bolt in a second flat is nice. Problem is finding a short, handy bolt action with irons that doesn't cost $900.....

That proves my point on bolt maintenance -- 500 rounds is a lifetime of use (maybe 2 or 3 lifetimes) - for most of these rifles and their end users

This one's likely long gone as the ad was Nov. 5th, but they are out there if you strike fast, - hundreds on the various auction sites as well ---- be better to take a chance on Gunbroker than buy a new one (for MArlins)

http://www.armslist.com/posts/3676927/a ... ver-action

[Treeman72]

I've run about 1000 rounds out of my 94ae 44 mag and perhaps 400 through my 464 30-30. Neither has needed disassembly. I clean the bore often and use a quick clean solvent on the action periodically. I follow up with lubrication and I mop up any excessive with qtips and cloth. Never having known the feel of an old Marlin or Winchester, I still feel content with my leverguns. I like the newer Mossbergs a lot. For $400 or less you get a new and accurate firearm.

[junkwrencher]

Easily scoped? The top eject Winchester is easily scoped. It may take some practice for the shooter if you are used to the modern scope directly over the bore. Over the years many have posted the old side-mounted Winchesters with game. The best mount systems I have used are produced by Williams company. At one time they built a mount with the receiver sight built-in. Also the trick for longer distance sight-in is to zero to the left of bullseye the same distance bore to scope center. Practice at various distances, especially the longest expected range. Cleaning, the bore-snake or pull-through patch works great. A complete tear-down is not that difficult on the Winchester with practice.

[Old Ironsights]

I'm going to say...

Rossi or Marlin in .357.

Marlin gets a SLIGHT edge in disasembly/cleaning.

But otherwise, here's my thinking...

A .357 lever has even MORE accessable OEM ammo than a 30-30 (it shoots anything .38-.357).
The ammo is cheaper to reload.
It is still effective on Deer out to the 110-125 range, and Zombies even farther.
It eats the same food as your (or a readily obtainable) pistol.
Recoil is easier for a neophyte to deal with than a .30-30... especially during "new shooter" introduction using .38sp.

And...

If you have a .308 or similar rifle, the .30-30 fits a "niche" that isn't there between .357 & .308

[7.62 Precision]

Easily scoped? The top eject Winchester is easily scoped. It may take some practice for the shooter if you are used to the modern scope directly over the bore. Over the years many have posted the old side-mounted Winchesters with game. The best mount systems I have used are produced by Williams company. At one time they built a mount with the receiver sight built-in. Also the trick for longer distance sight-in is to zero to the left of bullseye the same distance bore to scope center. Practice at various distances, especially the longest expected range. Cleaning, the bore-snake or pull-through patch works great. A complete tear-down is not that difficult on the Winchester with practice.

All true. And an offset scope is not the issue many feel it is. From the invention of optics all the way through WWII, and even after, snipers around the world used scopes that were offset to the side.

You already use scopes that are offset above the bore, half an inch to an inch to one side is no big deal.

Say the center of your scope is 1" to the left of the center of the bore. If you have a long range rifle, and zero at 600 meters, at the muzzle your point of impact will be 1" right of your point of aim. This disparity will diminish until you reach your zero range. At 600 meters, you will be dead on. Then your point of impact will drift left, and by 1200 meters you will be off by an inch to the left. (This is a perfect world shot with no air currents.) So out to 1200m, you will never be more than 1" off either way. If you like, push it out and zero windage at 800.

With a .30-30, zero your rifle at whatever range you prefer, and then zero the windage at the longest range you might shoot. You will never know the difference. You can usually use your left eye to shoot a left-hand offset scope.

Also, if you look for a '94 that is already drilled for a scope mount, you can get them very cheap.

[hfcable]

Sure, but kind of a moot point---- how often do you really need to remove the bolt. Not very often

I inferred that it was one of his desires in the OP."Ease of disassembly for cleaning? (Military types, we actually DO clean them thoroughly, not just a bore snake once a year)"

We do???? I'm a "military type". I clean mine when they need it and prefer not to waste time with a lot of unnecessary fluff--- a model 94 Winchester (or any lever rifle I can think of) does not need to be dismantled for cleaning with any frequency unless being used in extreme conditions

+1. unless using black powder, this disassemble and clean thing baffles me ! for that matter folks like John Taffin and many others agree . i dont think i have had any corrosive ammo in possessionin 40 years !

[MrMurphy]

I'm going to say...

Rossi or Marlin in .357.

Marlin gets a SLIGHT edge in disasembly/cleaning.

But otherwise, here's my thinking...

A .357 lever has even MORE accessable OEM ammo than a 30-30 (it shoots anything .38-.357).
The ammo is cheaper to reload.
It is still effective on Deer out to the 110-125 range, and Zombies even farther.
It eats the same food as your (or a readily obtainable) pistol.
Recoil is easier for a neophyte to deal with than a .30-30... especially during "new shooter" introduction using .38sp.

And...

If you have a .308 or similar rifle, the .30-30 fits a "niche" that isn't there between .357 & .308

Already considered and rejected. I previously owned a .44 Marlin.
Neither potential shooters are neophytes, and I want 150-200+ definite range, not "maaaaaaybe".

Not buying any more revolvers. Period. Not in .357 anytime soon. All my handguns are service/duty/concealment guns and automatics.

Punching through light cover and automobile bodies is a plus, and the .30-30/7.62X39 class rounds do it better.

[AJMD429]

+1. unless using black powder, this disassemble and clean thing baffles me ! for that matter folks like John Taffin and many others agree . i dont think i have had any corrosive ammo in possessionin 40 years !

The main 'cleaning chore' I dread is when I get out in the rain or drizzle with a conventional levergun - getting the forend wood off the tube to dry and oil it seems to be something that if I decide isn't necessary, I find out a year later there is a nice crop of rust under the forend.

[hfcable]

+1. unless using black powder, this disassemble and clean thing baffles me ! for that matter folks like John Taffin and many others agree . i dont think i have had any corrosive ammo in possessionin 40 years !

The main 'cleaning chore' I dread is when I get out in the rain or drizzle with a conventional levergun - getting the forend wood off the tube to dry and oil it seems to be something that if I decide isn't necessary, I find out a year later there is a nice crop of rust under the forend.

that is very true, had forgotten about that......and equally so for a lot of other actions as well as the levers. had that happen on a BAR i had years ago.

[7.62 Precision]

+1. unless using black powder, this disassemble and clean thing baffles me ! for that matter folks like John Taffin and many others agree . i dont think i have had any corrosive ammo in possessionin 40 years !

The main 'cleaning chore' I dread is when I get out in the rain or drizzle with a conventional levergun - getting the forend wood off the tube to dry and oil it seems to be something that if I decide isn't necessary, I find out a year later there is a nice crop of rust under the forend.

A good grease or the right wax under the forend will help with this. You can use water pump grease like the muzzle-loading competitors do to block the water.

[Grizz]

+1. unless using black powder, this disassemble and clean thing baffles me ! for that matter folks like John Taffin and many others agree . i dont think i have had any corrosive ammo in possessionin 40 years !

The main 'cleaning chore' I dread is when I get out in the rain or drizzle with a conventional levergun - getting the forend wood off the tube to dry and oil it seems to be something that if I decide isn't necessary, I find out a year later there is a nice crop of rust under the forend.

A good grease or the right wax under the forend will help with this. You can use water pump grease like the muzzle-loading competitors do to block the water.

I took my guns apart about twice a year, cleaned all the old stuff out, I was surprised what can find its way into the forearm, or the stock.

Wiped them down with alcohol to get all the old stuff out, then warmed them up and liberally coated all the contact surfaces with vaseline. Yuppers, high tech, spendy, secret formula vaseline. Gooped it into the action goodies EXCEPT for the working parts, which got a dose of three in one oil, or something more gunny if something happened to be around. Coated the insides of the wood bits. Reassembled and wiped off the squeeze-out. Did the same with the pistols, coating the innards with vaseline where it wouldn't interfere with operation.

Snow-Seal would likely have worked just as well, but it cost a lot more money.

The undersides of my firearms are showroom new looking even though there are some blems here and there on the outside. This includes a lot of running around in open skiffs in salt water. Not gun friendly enviro.

When actually out hunting the guns were brought into the boat or house at night, stood next to the stove with the action open, and wd-40 sprayed into the barrel until it ran out the bottom. The bores are perfect. You can't read about this stuff in the magazines 'cause they would go broke trying to promote the two cheapest commodities in the store.