Restore to original configuration or not?

[FLINT]

Hi all, in this recent topic, I told the story of my grandfathers old 1894 that he converted to 30wcf from 38-55.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=61526

The rifle dates to either 1899 or 1903 depending on the source.

The rifle is in very good condition in my opinion. I was just shooting it the other week with Winchester factory ammo. Shoots great.

I'm trying to decide whether to convert the rifle back to 38-55 or not. It does have a lot of history as a 30wcf, but also has history in the orig. caliber as well. I already have a marlin in 30-30, but don't have a 38-55 yet. What do you guys think. I definitely don't care about the monetary value of this rifle as I would for sure never ever sell it.

IF I were to convert it I would need:

1. Cody museum letter
2. 38-55 barrel
3. Correct forearm
4. Forearm cap
5. Someone to do the work

Missing anything? I'm sure that the mag tube and everything else are original.

Would the barrel have to be original vintage? Is it even possible to get a decent 38-55 barrel from the turn of the century?

Thanks guys

[Blaine]

I'd like to see the old gal back to original.

[Mike Hunter]

I have not seen pic of the rifle, but why would you need a forearm and forearm cap?

V/R

Mike

[Chuck 100 yd]

A picture of your rifle would help. A letter from Cody would be a good start.
It`s original configuration??? Rifle,carbine,half octagon,full octagon,round???
If just to be a shooter, Jes could rebore the barrel to .38-55 and make it a shooter.

[Shasta]

It may be worth a try, but don't put too much faith in a Cody letter when it comes to the Winchester Model 94. A lot of the records were lost long ago. I had a half-round takedown rifle with a tang sight, and all the Cody Museum people could tell me was that the serial number had been applied on August 12, 1918. They had no other information as to configuration, caliber, or options.

If you don't already have it, you should get a copy of Robert Renneberg's book "Winchester Model 94 A Century of Craftsmanship". It contains a wealth of information that may help you make some decisions about your Winchester.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Winchester-Mode ... 35e28d30e9



SHASTA

[arjunky]

Send it to Mike. I'm sure he can make it whatever you want.

Byron

[BrentD]

If it shoots well, why would you change it? It still won't be original (not that I would care about that). And it is, after all, your grandfather's creation. Why not use it as is? .38-55 is a heck of a fine round and a lot more flexible that .30-30.

No way, you would come out ahead dollar wise that I can see.

[Pete44ru]

If it shoots well, why would you change it? It still won't be original (not that I would care about that). And it is, after all, your grandfather's creation. Why not use it as is? .38-55 is a heck of a fine round and a lot more flexible that .30-30.

No way, you would come out ahead dollar wise that I can see.

Methinks you might've got it backwards, Brent - It's a .30-30 now, already altered from the original .38-55 chambering, that FLINT is considering restoring to the original .38.55 chambering with a gennie .38-55 barrel.


.

[FWiedner]

If your only reason for keeping it is sentimental, i.e., because it's your grandfather's gun, then why convert it (back) to something that your grandfather obviously didn't want it to be?

To me, it's like saying "Gee, thanks for the gun, Gramps. I don't like it."

If you're trying to restore it to original condition, sans original parts, it's just going to be new parts on an old action, parts of which used to belong to your grandfather, and monetarily it won't be worth near what an original or even a brand new gun in the selected caliber might be worth..

But if you just have a hankerin' for a .38-55 for a shooter, and the parts are handy to do the job, have at it. If the case is that Gramps would tear it down to make it what he wanted it to be then you're not exactly pokin' the old fella in the eye are you?

Huh... that's pretty much what Gramps did, ain't it?

Funny how that works.

[BrentD]

Nope, I can't read. You are right.

But I'm still not for changing it, even though I like the .38 better. Keep it like Grampa had it intended. But most of all, hunt it!

[1894c]

If it were me, I would buy another rifle in 38-55... :)

[Blaine]

[quote="1892"]If it were me, I would buy another rifle in 38-55... [/quotehttp://

http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/product ... =11&page=1

Standard Barrel, 38-55, No bells and whistles

[FLINT]

Here is a crummy iPad picture of it.

There is also a picture of it in the topic that I linked to in the original post.

So, I'm not sure that my grandfather changed barrels in the gun because he didn't like the original caliber or because he just wanted to. My dad says that the bore got so bad on the orig. barrel that the bullets would hit the target sideways. And probably at that time, (50s), 30-30 barrels were way easier to come by.

Dad says that the orig. barrel was long, so it would have been configured as a rifle, and it still has the crescent buttplate. When they put the 20" 30WCF barrel on, they put on a carbine fore end and barrel band. The mag. Tube is orig though, so, I guess it's a half length tube? It extends 11.5" past the receiver.

[Tycer]

Keep it the same. Heck, engrave the receiver with your grandad and your names. Document it as best you can. Include pics of you and your grandad, with the rifle if possible.

[FLINT]

Send it to Mike. I'm sure he can make it whatever you want.

Byron

Who is Mike?

[FLINT]

Keep it the same. Heck, engrave the receiver with your grandad and your names. Document it as best you can. Include pics of you and your grandad, with the rifle if possible.

I didn't know him unfortunately. He was born 1907 and died 1967. I was born 1977.


Whatever I do or don't do with it, one thing is for sure is that it will be hunted with!!

[arjunky]

Send it to Mike. I'm sure he can make it whatever you want.

Byron

Who is Mike?

I have not seen pic of the rifle, but why would you need a forearm and forearm cap?

V/R

Mike


_________________
Mike Hunter

www.mikehunterrestorations.com

Click on his link.
Byron

[superchicken]

Shoot it before you decide to make changes. You may find you like it the way it is configured now. It may shoot like the house afire with cast bullets. Personally, I think it has character and it has a family story behind it. I'd proudly hunt with it and keep it the same as long as everything works.

[Tristan]

If it were me, I would buy another rifle in 38-55...

This is what I'd do.

[Griff]

Since you have the rounds Grandad used BEFORE it was converted... I'd convert it back. It may have been converted to 30WCF as someone noted... .38-55 barrels were hard to come by. They still are... but possibly less so now.

Mike Hunter can make you a barrel with the correct stampings for the period of rifle the serial number denotes. A forend cap and tenon from VTI for the '66/'73/'92 will work. They may still be available as Winchester parts from Browning... or Midwest Gun Works. Wood is available from Precision Gun Works.

An Angle Eject barrel in .38-55 would fit, just need to cut a new extractor groove for the top eject action. Tho' the 2008 catalog lists it as "factory only." 1 ** U340100830 BARREL 38-55 WIN LEGACY OCTAGON 26” (FACTORY ONLY) $373.25

But forearms are:
27 U342454270 FOREARM WALNUT LEGACY 10" OCT $44.75
27 U342454280 FOREARM WALNUT LEGACY 10" OCT CHECKERED $52.00

Cap & tenon:
NS U342550340 FOREARM CAP OCTAGON $17.25 (I think this one is in the white)
NS U342550360 FOREARM CAP OCTAGON STEEL $26.00 (& this one is blued steel)
NS U342550370 FOREARM CAP OCTAGON CASE COLOR $28.75
NS U342550320 FOREARM CAP RETAINER PACK RIFLE/OCTAGON $24.75
NS U344912600 FOREARM CAP SCREW PACK RIFLE/OCTAGON (2X) $1.50
NS U343850200 MAGAZINE TUBE BRACKET OCTAGON $31.25
54 U343800440 MAGAZINE TUBE LEGACY 24" $26.00

Pricing & availability has probably changed since the 2008 catalog was issued... but a phone call will let you know.

But, for a non-traditional heavy barreled version... don't forget Numrich Gun Parts .38-55 octagon barrel (link). At $142.75, a bargain. You'd have to relieve the forend & cap a little (no taper to these barrels). And... note, they're not legal for NRA sanctioned Cowboy Leveraction Silhouette! I have one in .30-30 and it's super accurate!

Mike Hunter might know, but I think this barrel does mimic a factory heavy barrel that was offered... but these aren't marked "Winchester" and as such, is what makes it not legal for the NRA Cowboy Silhouette, if my reading of the rules is correct.

[KiwiKev]

Found this article which you may have possibly seen.

http://www.realguns.com/articles/506.htm

Difficult choice.

There are opinions about original rifles with new barrels as collector items.

But as the article shows could be a good shooter in 38-55.

[PriseDeFer]

Don't second guess gramps, he was smart enough to see that you got that fine rifle.

[Mike Hunter]

More than likely the conversion from 38-55 was out of necessity rather than desire. By the 1940/50 the 38-55 had become fairly obsolete, and ammo had become fairly had to find. Remember, this was pre internet days, so if your local gun shop didn’t carry it or couldn’t get it in you were pretty much SOL.

I have seen a lot of Winchesters converted form the older black powder ctgs to more modern and available ctgs. Rechambering 32-40 barrels to 32 WS, reboring and rechambering 25-35 to 30 WFC, and barrel swaps were very popular.

It wasn’t until the 80s or 90s that the 38-55 became popular again when Winchester again made the 1894 in the 38-55 ctg.

[KiwiKev]

So true Mike.

Today there is no such thing as a truly obsolete caliber. If the main function of the rifle is for hunting the re-boring for 30-30 would make sense. I think the barrel change is part of the family history of the rifle now.

Found this ad for your info.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting ... 771498.htm

[FLINT]

oh wow, somehow I'd missed the last 6 replies on this. Thanks for all of the input and thanks Griff for all of that information - I'm going to PM you.

I think what I'll do is order the cody letter and then show it to my father and see what he thinks about converting it back. He seemed to think that the 38-55 bullets were really cool and has brought them up a few times.

If he thinks that it would be cool, then it will happen. If he would like to keep it the way his dad made it then we'll do that. If it were just me, I think I'd convert it. I'm all about having a 38-55 now, and it kind of seems like a waste to buy a whole other rifle when I have this perfectly good one just waiting. I could think of the 30-30 barrel as a temporary fix, one of the many chapters in the life of the rifle.

[Tristan]

oh wow, somehow I'd missed the last 6 replies on this. Thanks for all of the input and thanks Griff for all of that information - I'm going to PM you.

I think what I'll do is order the cody letter and then show it to my father and see what he thinks about converting it back. He seemed to think that the 38-55 bullets were really cool and has brought them up a few times.

If he thinks that it would be cool, then it will happen. If he would like to keep it the way his dad made it then we'll do that. If it were just me, I think I'd convert it. I'm all about having a 38-55 now, and it kind of seems like a waste to buy a whole other rifle when I have this perfectly good one just waiting. I could think of the 30-30 barrel as a temporary fix, one of the many chapters in the life of the rifle.

Careful, buddy, or you'll get your account locked!

[FLINT]

Haha, yeah, really.

If it was just me, then the more the merrier. However, my wife has a different philosophy.