What do you carry in your 38 Special?

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:31 am

I've been going back and forth lately between my 380 and 38 snubby for my carry gun. I've not spent the money for premium self defense ammo for the 38 though. I've just been carrying it with 158 gr. cast swc loaded to +P specs. Haven't had time to do any ballistic gel testing with the 38 yet, so what's your favorite?

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:46 am

158gr ½jacketed HP +Ps.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:20 pm

Federal Nyclad.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:47 pm

I mostly carry a s&w model 40 or a old s&w model 36 with a 3" barrel. I am apt to carry most anything I got laying around in it but usually a 125 HP and always since I ride ATV`s in the booneys, a snake load on top. Once in my stupid youth it could have got me killed though. Some miscreants had hit and ran me. We got them "boxed up" and they purposely hit us a couple more times trying to get away. I ran up to the vehicle and the driver locked himself in and initially wouldn't come out. To prove my point in the heated moment I tried breaking the driver side window with a s&w model 60 I had at the time. (This was about 45 years ago). They dont break that easy. It did bring them out. After the excitement My smith wouldn't open! By hitting the window, it had Jared the shot capsule forward half way into the barrel!
The guy had warrants out on him. Last year I bought a SIG 238. That is a small light weight SA auto in .380. It was on sale for almost $150s off so I thought I would try one again as I owned about three 380`s through the years a long time ago. This one has a terrible hard trigger pull. I have carried it occasionally as they are a joy to pack but I ether need to get that trigger worked on or sell it.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:09 pm

I have Winchester 130gr JHPs+P in there for now. Seems like any of the 130gr +P will just about do. I also keep those Winchester WhiteBox 130s with the truncated (flat) tip.....Those penetrate pretty good in spite of being standard velocity.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:25 pm

Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 38 Special Short Barrel Ammo 135 +P Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
Easily replicated with Unique.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:52 pm

Tycer wrote:Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 38 Special Short Barrel Ammo 135 +P Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
Easily replicated with Unique.

IF you can find the Gold Dots, which I can't. That would be my first choice if they were available.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:57 pm

Snake shot & a Buffalo Bore 158gr short barrel LSWCHP... in my .38sp... because it's a derringer... and it's a BUG that I carry just for snakes...

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:03 pm

125 grain XTP over a max charge of 2400. I know, that 2" barrel will make it light up the night. I carry a Colt Cobra so don't practice with that load because of the aluminum frame but I find it comforting in my pocket.

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:10 pm

My wife and I both use Hornady 125gr. Critical Defense +P's for carry in .38 Special.

TWHBC · Post by **TWHBC** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:29 pm

FBI load, +p 158 gr. Lead hollow point.
Most likely future change will be to a Buffalo Bore version.
158 gr. SWC or various 130 gr. FMJ for practice.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:11 pm

I like the 125 grain Semi Jacketed HP.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:21 pm

158 gr. LSWC or LSWCHP. My 38s seem to shoot to point
of aim with the 158 gr. loads, so that's what I use.

357s are loaded with 14 grains of 2400 and 158 gr. JHPs. 125gr. slugs
have a good reputation for stopping goblins, but again, my fixed-sight
revolvers seem to shoot to point of aim with the 158 gr. loads.

-Stretch

Michaux · Post by **Michaux** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:34 pm

Handloaded 158 gr. LSWC-Hpt loaded to +P

Michaux

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:30 pm

.

I gave my S&W M-37 Airweight .38 Special to my youngest Daughter, since I got a .44 Special BullDog - but she carries it with same ammo I did.

When I had the .38 (and now her) I didn't see the need shoot through car doors, windshields, etc for HD/SD, and we both were/are concerned with what damage/harm to an innocent that might result from a pass-through.

Ergo, the .38 Special's always been carried with Glaser Safety Slugs or MagSafe's - which will stop someone w/o passing through.

.

336A · Post by **336A** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:55 pm

TedH wrote:I've been going back and forth lately between my 380 and 38 snubby for my carry gun. I've not spent the money for premium self defense ammo for the 38 though. I've just been carrying it with 158 gr. cast swc loaded to +P specs. Haven't had time to do any ballistic gel testing with the 38 yet, so what's your favorite?

Not trying to tell you what to do but I can tell you from personal experience there really is no need to drive a 158gr SWC to +P velocities. I spined a doe this past season and had to administer a coup de' grace with my S&W M10. I was using a 158gr SWC over 4.5gr of W231 which is good for about 850fps, this was done from about 10 feet and it was straight line penetration through and through. I like the Remington 158gr SWCHP as it has a great track record and shoots to the sights, but this can be tough to find as well. Here is some good reading on some .38 SPL tests that were conducted if this will help any.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/def ... tests.html

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/rel ... loads.html

Another good .38 SPL load that out there is the Remington Golden Sabre. It don't get the press or fan fare of the Gold Dot but from all the tests that I've seen it does very well, and it seems to always be on the shelves. I have a little project that I'm working on with the Hornady 110gr XTP. I'm going to load this up to +P levels with Unique and test it out on some water filled milk jugs to see how it fares. I'm a bit disappointed with Hornady though as the bullets that I recieved actually com in at .3545" not the .357" listed on the box.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:57 pm

I have some cor-bon +P 125's, and I also carry full wadcutters. Its been determined that many hollowpoint loads fail to open reliably in cold weather and at the low velocities that 2" barrels give, if you are using them in short guns. I like SWC's, and sometimes carry them also.

Re: Glasers and mag safe, the current info I've been seeing is that they are very substandard performers in actual use.

If interested, read this, its a very good discussion of pre-fragmented ammo.

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php? ... ght=glaser

and look for comments from Chuck Haggard and Doc GKR (Dr Gary K Roberts) in particular.

The conclusion of Dr Roberts, "In other words, pre-fragmented bullets like the Glaser and Magsafe offer terminal performance that is substandard and fully eclipsed by most modern robust expanding JHP designs."

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:32 pm

170 grain Lyman with 4.5 grains of W-W 231. I want penetration with a flat point.

The British found this out a long time ago.----6

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:41 pm

The wife is a great shooter with her model 36 loaded with Gold Dot 125HP +p, Daughter#1 likes the pre model 27 with Remington 148gr match wadcutters, #2 prefers the Glock 17 and keeps two extra mags loaded. All good Texas girls!

EdinCT · Post by **EdinCT** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:17 pm

I shoot 5.1 gr of unique under a 158 cast SWCHP that I hit with a #2 screwdriver bit before loading. I know its better than a sharp stick.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:50 pm

JerryB wrote:Federal Nyclad.

Didn't know they still made them.

I use Winchester Silvertips, but actually haven't seen any of them in awhile...

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:10 pm

EdinCT wrote:I shoot 5.1 gr of unique under a 158 cast SWCHP that I hit with a #with a #2 screwdriver bit before loading. I know its better than a sharp stick.

Man! I like that! (Better than a sharp stick!). That's the only thing that ever came out of Africa.----6

Post by **AmBraCol** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:54 pm

158 RNL by the national ammo maker. They are good for about 650 fps out of a 4" barrel. That's all they'll let us carry down here. Still, "It's better than a sharp stick" - and surprisingly effective in spite of the "paper ballistics". Shot a good sized hog in the head with it once, recovered from the off side ham. That's a good three feet of penetration. Hog went down right there. It is NOT what I would choose, given my druthers - but it makes me chuckle to hear folks up north agonize over which load to carry. Me? I'll go with about any 158 or so SWC out of the good ol' Model 10 and call it good. They shoot to the sights and that counts for a lot.

wm · Post by wm » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:02 pm

Griff wrote:158gr ½jacketed HP +Ps.

What he said.

Though I've never had any qualms about carrying Federal Hydra Shocks. Or another favorite, now sadly out of print, was Federal NyClads. Also trusted IMI Samson 158 grain LSWC HP +P with a great deal of satisfaction.

Lassiter · Post by **Lassiter** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:33 pm

Tycer wrote:Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 38 Special Short Barrel Ammo 135 +P Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
Easily replicated with Unique.

What he said^^^^^

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:42 pm

Doc AJ, I bought the last two boxes of Nyclad from a gun shop close to 15 years ago. I still have a full box and half of the other box. I carry them in my Rossi 68 2 inch. A couple of weeks ago my grandson ordered a box of 500 Speer LSWCHP 158 grain bullets from Midway. He asked me to load the old FBI load for him to carry in his new S&W 637-2 2 inch Performance Center +P gun. I cleaned up 50 nickel cases and loaded them over a good dose of Unique.

mohavesam · Post by **mohavesam** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:18 pm

I happened to watch a violent man get hit in the elbow with a single Federal Hydrashok 158 gr 38+P, from a 2" Taurus 85.
-Stopped him immediately with ugly effect of a dangling forearm. He lost the arm, game over. I have every confidence that a center-of-mass hit with the same round would have been a DOS.

I have no reservations carrying Hydrashok anything in a snubbie.
That said, likewise any Gold Dot round.

FWIW, I have read several reports from victims/assailants who recall vividly the type of bullet showing in the cylinder when staring down a revolver. Silvertip hollowpoints, bright copper HPs, etc. They all had the detail down sub-consciously, and conscious memory!

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:58 pm

Lassiter wrote:
Tycer wrote:Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 38 Special Short Barrel Ammo 135 +P Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
Easily replicated with Unique.
What he said^^^^^

What they said ^^^^^

Unless I'm on my own land piddling around...then the first 2 rounds are Speer shot cups full of #9 lead. For the other kind of snake.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:51 am

When I had one, the Speer snubbie 135 gr Gold Dot. Before that, Federal Nyclad.

They discontinued Nyclad about 15 years back, but reintroduced it a few years ago.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:25 am

MrMurphy wrote:When I had one, the Speer snubbie 135 gr Gold Dot. Before that, Federal Nyclad.

They discontinued Nyclad about 15 years back, but reintroduced it a few years ago.

Cool.......may buy me a few more:

Nyclad factory loads ----> http://www.federalpremium.com/products/ ... spx?id=828

I know the news media said they were 'teflon' coated, so they could go through 'police vests', but it was my understanding that it was an inexpensive way to keep lead residues down in indoor shooting ranges and/or minimize leading in the revolver.

Nonetheless, they always seemed to shoot accurately and easily, although I think the only 'biologic' test of them ever for me was shooting a feral cat with one from my Marlin 1894c, which is kind of a no-brainer.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:36 am

Seems like that Nyclad load would be easy for me to duplicate with a hollow point mold and my powder coating. Might have to get a cheap Lee mold and hollow point it.

ceb · Post by **ceb** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:40 am

I load mine with the old FBI load, Remington 158gr SWCHP.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:19 am

Ted or anyone else; Have you done a WC ballistic gel penetration test with one going about 850fps or so?

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:31 am

I have not, but it would be interesting to do. After we get settled in our new place, I'll be doing a lot more gel testing since I can just walk out the back door. It's a pain to transport all the stuff to the range and set up and shoot it at a public range, and my other option for shooting is an hour away and the gel will change temperature too much unless it's kept in a ice chest, but I think it would be difficult to be consistent that way. Going right from fridge to shooting in a matter of a couple minutes is best for consistent, fair results.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:02 am

3leggedturtle wrote:Ted or anyone else; Have you done a WC ballistic gel penetration test with one going about 850fps or so?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n2aBDHZi1A

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:37 pm

I do know from first hand reports, of instances where these ½jacketed 158gr HPs have made one shot stops; one where a knife wielding assailant was shot once, center-of-mass, and one where a shotgun toting assailant took 11 to the torso before going down... (although the ME said the first shot stopped the perp's heart... and the remaining 10 were "just extra torso hits, indicating an adrenaline rush". Shooter stated, "...Mr. __________ remained standing, so I continued to fire until his weapon was dropped..."

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:02 pm

^ ^ Yes, there is no guarantee what will happen in a defensive shooting. What worked great one time may not give the same or even noticable results another time. We have plenty of info on various shootings. One officer hit a guy 22 times I believe before he went down, stayed down and quit shooting at him. Another shot a guy I believe 17 times with a 45 auto, a head shot was what ended it. Both instances had a number of "good" hits, it just didnt shut them down. One other instance was a center hit with a 45 auto on an armed guy, I believe it was a heart shot, and there was a 1 1/2" -2" exit. He turned, ran back up the stairs, down a hall, and barricaded himself in a room and negotiated surrender I think. I don't think he even realized he was hit at first.

Hydrashocks are not the magic bullet they were believed to be 30 years ago. They work, but no better than anything else of that period for the most part. I recall an autopsy report of a suicide, there was no expansion. Todays generation of hollowpoint bullets are mostly vastly superior and more reliable expanders in a variety of situations. The old FBI load being one basic exception. They seem to work well with the right bullet hardness and given adequete velocity (meaning you may not always get it in 2" barrels and/or cold weather).

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:06 pm

Tycer wrote:Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 38 Special Short Barrel Ammo 135 +P Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
Easily replicated with Unique.

These or Federal .38 Spl 147 grain Hydra-shock +P in my 3 inch model 60.

Bob Hatfield · Post by **Bob Hatfield** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:50 pm

158 Grain Round Nose.

rodeo kid · Post by **rodeo kid** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:24 pm

I don't ever carry a .38 spec. any more, but my wife has a Ruger LCR and she uses Hornady Critical Defense lite as she likes the lower recoil. (And the pink tip on the bullet.) Did I say that

Oh well! Oh and she just put a Charter Arms Chic Lady on layaway. It is pretty you see, Polished stainless cylinder and barrel and pink frame. What the heck it does shoot real bullets. And I guess if it gets more women to carry, it's a good idea. God Bless.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:49 pm

Borrowing a Lyman 140gr hollow point mold tomorrow from a buddy. Not one of the Devestator molds, but an older one with the smaller hollow point, designed for a softer alloy. After powder coating they should be real similar to the Federal Nyclad.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:52 pm

He's also got a 45 cal Lyman Devestator that he's going to loan me. I've got a few hours of casting ahead of me. Those single cavity molds are sloooow.....

BobM · Post by **BobM** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:27 am

Cor-Bon DPX or 158 grain lead hollow points. However the 148 grain wadcutters are starting to appeal to me. Supposedly they have adequate penetration with less recoil

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:05 pm

Wow, if I weren't stubborn I might change my 38's load after reading all the above choices. But I'm a caster so I keep 150 gr wadcutters in my 3" 38 (range lead of about 10 BHN). A max charge of W231 is used and I feel pretty good about this load at short range (across the room distances). I just PCed a few wadcutters and I'm gonna load up some and try them out...

firefuzz · Post by **firefuzz** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:09 am

horsesoldier03 wrote:I like the 125 grain Semi Jacketed HP.

I buy bulk Remington 125gr JHP's and load them hotter than I'll print here. All my guns are .357 mag chambered tho.

Rob

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:40 pm

Tycer wrote:
3leggedturtle wrote:Ted or anyone else; Have you done a WC ballistic gel penetration test with one going about 850fps or so?
different one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQEP0xSaCYI

and another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6-IOblOVbs

Bullard4075 · Post by **Bullard4075** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:29 pm

OldWin wrote:My wife and I both use Hornady 125gr. Critical Defense +P's for carry in .38 Special.

+1

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:36 am

Tycer wrote:Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 38 Special Short Barrel Ammo 135 +P Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
Easily replicated with Unique.

when I owned and carried a j-frame as a BUG I ended up with the above load...these days it's nothing but 9mm (Gold Dot 124gr.JHP +P)...more comfortable with 8+ shots (M&P Shield) than 5 (also carry the 8 shot mag in my pocket too), there is a better chance today to encounter multiple assailants than in the past, at least that's been my experience...YMMV... :O

jruppert2 · Post by **jruppert2** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:33 am

OldWin wrote:
My wife and I both use Hornady 125gr. Critical Defense +P's for carry in .38 Special.

Bullard4075 wrote:
+1

Where are you all finding Hornady 125gr. Critical Defense +P's for .38 Special?
I see on the Hornady website, Critical Defense ammunition only in 90gr, 110gr and 110gr +P.
No ammunition is listed in 125gr containing Critical Defense bullets and Hornady does not list the Critical Defense bullets as a separate component.

Am I missing something here?

In any case, I don't know if the Critical Defense bullets work better than hollow points but the engineering behind the bullets just seems to make sense to me.

Dirty Dan · Post by **Dirty Dan** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:33 pm

Hornady 125gr. Critical Defense +P's