AR ponderings

[hondo1892]

I've been thinking lately about an AR. I know there have been other threads about which ones are better guns. I'm looking at two right now though and might think about others. But my main problem is cash flow. I want a progressive press and would like to get an AR also. Don't know which will come first. I've been looking at the S&W M&P15 sport and the Ruger AR. I can get either for under $600 at a gun shop not to far from my place. The S&W is only $539 right now. My question is would I be better to save a few more dead presidents and get something else. I'm not looking for a gaming or a combat rifle. I just want something with open sights and dependable. Dependable..... shoots accurate, ejects and feeds reliable and will shoot wide range of boolit weights. May use it to shoot coyotes once in a while and a truck gun. I'm looking for something simple and basic that's it. My accurate is I can shoot three or four inch groups with my poor eyes at a hundred yards with open sights. Or two inches with a scope at the same distance.

[Streetstar]

Either one of those guns you mentioned should be able to do all that. Those are great prices as well . Contrary to opinions on some of the AR-15 oriented forum boards, - you dont need a fully decked out US infantryman spec rifle from Colt, HK or LARue to have a good functioning carbine.

But regarding an AR vs a Dillon press ---- reminds me of the old adage - "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime "

Its not exactly the same, granted ----- but adding an AR to the stable is just another depreciating asset, while adding a press will help you build cheap ammo for decades (including for the AR, as you will invariably buy one of those anyway - if not now, maybe a little later -- and they are fun to shoot, so they eat ammo rapidly )

[AJMD429]

The last several AR-15's I added to the family stable were made from the Aero Precision lower that sells for $59.00 or something like that (from EABCo). They ALL work flawlessly and have proven accurate enough that if I miss it's ME and I can't blame it on the gun.

Consider just getting your toe in the door in case something legislative happens by buying one (or two) of the Aero Precision lowers now, buy your Dillon, then get the rest of the 'AR' one piece at a time. They aren't hard to put together.

> http://www.eabco.net/Stripped-AR15-Lowe ... 14405.html

If you buy two, it will cost you $120, but if legislative garbage happens you can sell one of them for a bunch of money to fund the build-out of the other. If nothing 'legislative' happens, then you can just build them both out at your leisure, then keep the one you like best.



Ironically, I think Dillon and Aero Precision are related companies...

[tman]

I've been thinking lately about an AR. I know there have been other threads about which ones are better guns. I'm looking at two right now though and might think about others. But my main problem is cash flow. I want a progressive press and would like to get an AR also. Don't know which will come first. I've been looking at the S&W M&P15 sport and the Ruger AR. I can get either for under $600 at a gun shop not to far from my place. The S&W is only $539 right now. My question is would I be better to save a few more dead presidents and get something else. I'm not looking for a gaming or a combat rifle. I just want something with open sights and dependable. Dependable..... shoots accurate, ejects and feeds reliable and will shoot wide range of boolit weights. May use it to shoot coyotes once in a while and a truck gun. I'm looking for something simple and basic that's it. My accurate is I can shoot three or four inch groups with my poor eyes at a hundred yards with open sights. Or two inches with a scope at the same distance.

Before the Clinton assault ban, I bought an Olympic arms plinker for the same reasons stated above. So far, it's working out for me. It has old A1 sights, but I only shoot out to 100 yards. Other than a sling,I added no accessories, but recently bought 2 Magpull 40 shot mags.

[Panzercat]

but adding an AR to the stable is just another depreciating asset

The people who sold their plain ol' vanilla ARs for thousands during Sandy Hook would disagree with you
But it is a comment I would qualify-- Your add-ons and AR bling are the depreciating aspect of that equation. The rifle price will rise and fall depending on the political environment, but you're the only one that is going to pay full retail for that super crisp competition trigger neato skeletonized stock.

Never heard of a problem with the M&P Sport. It was on my short list if I hadn't already gotten a smokin deal somewhere else.
Also, if you can afford to sit and wait, Black Friday was how I built my AR. If you're patient, you can easily build a decent AR for under $500.

[Grizz]

But regarding an AR vs a Dillon press ---- reminds me of the old adage - "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime "

Doug

Teach a man to fish and he will be subject to massive bureaucracy, idiotic regulations, insane restrictions based on the hormone imbalances of the ruling class, and aggressive hostility from the legions of armed clipboard cadre.

Oh, wait, were you meaning commercial fishing?

hondo1892 ..... where's that gunshop?

that seems like a great price for either gun. I have always liked ruger but don't know if they have improved on the stoner gun. I put together a kit gun for around 550 that shoots fine. I like having it. Just seems like an American thing to do. the state of manufacturing now is so consistent that I can swap a cheapo red dot between two ars and they both shoot to the same point. when I miss the gong, I miss the gong, the gun doesn't miss. I bet it would be hard to put an ar together or buy one that doesn't do about like that, unless it's totally out of the mainstream market.

seems to me that accurizing them means shrinking the group from half-dollar size to dime size.

look forward to the photos.

Grizz

[tman]

Look at what SGT. YORK did, with mil spec mass-produced arms.

[mikld]

Tough decision. I don't think I could own an AR without a progressive press. I don't buy ammo, but shoot 99.9% reloads and I'm already having trouble keeping up with my Garand with my turret press. From my standpoint, 100 rounds is a very good day with my Garand, but prolly need at least three times that with an AR...

[jeepnik]

I've had very good luck with Stag. Both the product, and on line purchases.

Then again, I'm a southpaw so they're one of the few games in town.

[hondo1892]

Kentucky Gun Co. is the store that has the M&P15. They have the Ruger also but its out of stock right now. The store is located in Bardstown KY and I pass it every time I go to visit my daughter in Louisville. It's like all stores though some things low some not so low. They give a cash discount on guns though. I have a two loading presses now the Dillon would just speed things up.

[hondo1892]

Jeepnik, I'm a lefty also but I have shot right handed guns most of my life. That's one of the reasons I like lever guns so much. As long as the brass doesn't hit me in the face I'm good.

[AJMD429]

but adding an AR to the stable is just another depreciating asset

The people who sold their plain ol' vanilla ARs for thousands during Sandy Hook would disagree with you
But it is a comment I would qualify-- Your add-ons and AR bling are the depreciating aspect of that equation. The rifle price will rise and fall depending on the political environment, but you're the only one that is going to pay full retail for that super crisp competition trigger neato skeletonized stock.

Never heard of a problem with the M&P Sport. It was on my short list if I hadn't already gotten a smokin deal somewhere else.
Also, if you can afford to sit and wait, Black Friday was how I built my AR. If you're patient, you can easily build a decent AR for under $500.

Yep on both those underlined comments...

I buy and sell and trade and gift, but the AR I keep coming back to is a 'mutt' made from an Aero Precision lower and a CMMG Melonited skinny barrel, with an upper I didn't even look at the brand of (probably Bushmaster was what was in the parts drawer). The only 'special' part was an adjustable gas plug; really nice to be able to dial-down the gas to just what is needed. I keep a spare hex-nut for it and a matching Allen wrench in the grip (I guess the 'storage compartment' pistol grip was a non-standard item too). It wears the original 'carry handle' A2 upper, sight and a regular front (gas block adjustable type though), and I did open up the larger aperture just a bit for low-light use.

It's almost the bottom one in this photo (it now has a 223 barrel instead of a 300 Blk one as in the photo):



I also noticed that this photo is only a few months old, yet NONE of the three AR's is still in the configuration shown. . . "Barbie for men" is truly an apt description. . .

I've never found ANY 223 or 5.56 ammo it wouldn't feed and hit with reliably (soda cans at 75 yards). Sure, if I want to bet someone $100 I'll hit a Ping-Pong ball at 100 yards on the first shot, I'll be using my scoped, bull-barrel AR witth the match trigger. . . but most of the time I'm attacked, it is more likely soda cans coming at me from 75 yards, than Ping-Pong balls coming at me from 100 yards, so I think I'm safe. . .

[Pisgah]

Palmetto State Armory markets a nice flat-top carbine, usually around $500, a bit less in their frequent sales. A2 front sight, flat-top receiver ready for a scope or a carry-handle A2 rear sight. I've also had an Oly Plinker for years, no complaints, except the A1 format is problematic when you start wanting a scope.

[rodeo kid]

I don't think you can go wrong with either the S&W or the Ruger, and at that price either is a bargain. God Bless.

[jeepnik]

Jeepnik, I'm a lefty also but I have shot right handed guns most of my life. That's one of the reasons I like lever guns so much. As long as the brass doesn't hit me in the face I'm good.

Way back when I used the original M-16. Got hit quite a few times with hot brass. Never like the darned things, especially after one tried to get me killed.

Flash forward a few decades. My boys decided that dad needed to see what a modern AR was like. So, they gave me the Stag. I have to admit, it's a heck of a lot better than the original. Still, push come to shove I'll use my M1A Scout/Squad.

On the plus side, both kids turned out to be right handed, so when the became Marines they didn't have to deal with using a wrong handed weapon. Though neither had the M-16 or its variants as a primary weapon. One was a SAW gunner, and the went to sniper school.

[Panzercat]

Palmetto State Armory markets a nice flat-top carbine, usually around $500, a bit less in their frequent sales. A2 front sight, flat-top receiver ready for a scope or a carry-handle A2 rear sight. I've also had an Oly Plinker for years, no complaints, except the A1 format is problematic when you start wanting a scope.

I gotta say, the lower I bought from PSA is nice. Crisp trigger, great build quality.
When my AR started having problems, I sincerely doubted it was on their end and i was right.

[Sixgun]

Colt has been making them from day 1......they are the "meat and potatoes" of AR's. 6920 or a 6940.----6

[Griff]

...but adding an AR to the stable is just another depreciating asset, while adding a press will help you build cheap ammo for decades (including for the AR, as you will invariably buy one of those anyway - if not now, maybe a little later -- and they are fun to shoot, so they eat ammo rapidly )

Here's my vote. Buy the Dillon... its versatility and ability to crank out ammo will be a benefit to both any future AR and your current arms.

[1894c]

I built and shot an AR-15 this winter, mostly parts from different sources, it was great fun...BUT...I just sold it to but a Browning BL-22, in the end I'm just a simple levergun guy... :)

[OldWin]

[/quote]Here's my vote. Buy the Dillon... its versatility and ability to crank out ammo will be a benefit to both any future AR and your current arms.[/quote]

Yup. Mine gets way more use than the AR I had.



I had a really nice AR back in the mid 90's but I could never figure out what to do with it. It was mostly just a range toy. I sold it and bought an M1A as it has more utility in my particular case.

For me, a good 92 carbine is a lot more fun as a range toy.

[M. M. Wright]

Buy the Dillon 550 and a couple of AR-15 receivers. Start cranking out ammo and build the AR as you can acquire parts. I know, the 650 is really neat but I don't think, (just me) the added production is worth the added cost and complexity. I find the 650 kinda fussy to change calibers on while the 550 is really easy and quick but then I have a bunch more experience with the 550. Too, I have about 10 or a dozen die holders and calibers already set up for the 550.
I gotta say that if I had to crank out 9mm or 40 S&W ammo for a small department I'd jump on the 650. You could easily change it over to do your 223 too.

[MrMurphy]

For your intended purposes, either rifle will do fine.

I am an AR 'elitist' by some people's definitions. Mostly because I use them for their original purpose, not whacking coyotes, and hold to a high standard so I come home alive.


I used to work with the guy who took the photo in AJDM's post....for the same people.

My standards are a bit higher than others.


For killing paper, varmints, etc and that 0.00001% likelihood of defensive use for you, the Smith and Ruger will work fine. Of the two ARs currently in my house, one is a BCM/S&W (built before BCM offered lowers) the other is an M&P15. Though after being looked over and tweaked by the gunsmiths I used to work with, it's sort of only technically a Smith...still has the same Smith upper, lower and barrel though.

Good magazines (PMags) and lube (Fireclean or SLIP, or in a pinch, CLP) will keep you out of trouble. A 1 in 8 or 1 in 9 twist will cover most of your needs, if you like heavy bullets, a 1 in 7 or 1/8.

[Panzercat]

I vote for higher twist rates. Mass doesn't lie and 1:7 or 1:8 can shoot it.
1:9 relies too much on velocity black magic and yawing witchcraft for my tastes.

[hondo1892]

Thanks guys for all the replies.

[GoatGuy]

For your stated needs a 1 in 9 twist should be fine. Should handle 55 and 62 grain bullets just as well as the 7 or 8 twist.

[shooter]

Another vote here for Palmetto State Armory. They make good stuff for a good price. I built my AR for about 60% of what it would have cost me to buy it ready to shoot from one of the big brands, and is in my opinion better quality. Granted, I wasn't in a hurry and shopped a lot of PSA's sales, but you can put together a good quality semi-custom rifle from them for around $500 if you buy one of the $59 lowers Doc AJ mentioned. If I were buying an "economy" AR ready to shoot, I'd go for the Ruger.

I'm no AR expert. To tell you the truth I'm not a huge fan of them, but I believe everyone needs a "battle rifle"......so take my advice for what it's worth, but I think PSA is a great place to build a good rifle for cheap.