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So I contact marlin about the bore diameter of my 1894 , .4323"and tell him , being a problem. Send it in, cannot say what is wrong with it until we look at it. BUT according to him spec. diameter is .434" for a 44 mag. I say that is wrong, check it on the computer, he says that is the information he has in front of him . Well all he can do is say all information is proprietary and in house cannot give it out. . Gamble on sending it in and they cannot even tell me anything until they get it. Cannot even tell me the diameter of what the replacement barreled action would be.. nothing .. nada ..zip. Grrrrr blankety blank. Will get a mold and start making lead the right size for it .
Thanks for the shoulder
John
Gettin old ain't for sissies!
There just has to be dogs in heaven !
For years I've read that many 1894's (especially in 44 Mag) were 'overbore', and that some of it was related to using cutters too long or something (starting them out oversized, maybe). Dunno the factuality of that part, but many posts and I think some magazine articles in years past on the matter.
Unfortunately, from what I read, the 45 Colt seems victim to oversized chambers (not just in Marlins) rather often, and the 44 Mag to oversized bores.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws "first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
I would first take a chamber cast to see if it will accept a loaded round with a bullet that large.
Buying an oversize mold and finding out that you cant chamber loads with that bullet would be a bummer.
Chuck 100 yd wrote:I would first take a chamber cast to see if it will accept a loaded round with a bullet that large. Buying an oversize mold and finding out that you cant chamber loads with that bullet would be a bummer.
True, but if the bore 'demands' it, it wouldn't be too difficult to rent or even just buy a chamber reamer to open up the front or throat if needed.
Just for kicks I took my 1894SS...
...I bought 7 years ago when 44MagHunter...
...'stole' my blued 1894 'cuz I promised his 13-year-old carcass that if he killed a deer for Christmas dinner with it, he could have it....
....and as usual, I can ALWAYS hit the 12" gong at 100 yards standing, and you can tell if the hit is 'central' or not, and it always is. Probably shoots 5" groups on paper standing, and maybe half that from a rest. Never bothered to see, since it drops deer Dead Right There every time I shoot one. Never slugged the barrel, either. If I did, I might find out it isn't accurate enough to kill deer with....
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws "first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
There was quite a lot of discussion on the Graybeard's H&R forums about getting their H&R .44's to shoot well with cast bullets. It's been a long time since I searched that out but IIRC the SAMMI specs call for a .44 mag barrel in a rifle to be around .432. This causes problems for people that are used to sizing cast bullets to .429 for a handgun. As I recall there are different specs for a .44 rifle and a .44 handgun and there lies the problem.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Rusty wrote:There was quite a lot of discussion on the Graybeard's H&R forums about getting their H&R .44's to shoot well with cast bullets. It's been a long time since I searched that out but IIRC the SAMMI specs call for a .44 mag barrel in a rifle to be around .432. This causes problems for people that are used to sizing cast bullets to .429 for a handgun. As I recall there are different specs for a .44 rifle and a .44 handgun and there lies the problem.
Well, I guess that makes sense to someone ... but not to me. Should be; same specs for what ever uses that cartridge.
What a PITA.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Rusty wrote:There was quite a lot of discussion on the Graybeard's H&R forums about getting their H&R .44's to shoot well with cast bullets. It's been a long time since I searched that out but IIRC the SAMMI specs call for a .44 mag barrel in a rifle to be around .432. This causes problems for people that are used to sizing cast bullets to .429 for a handgun. As I recall there are different specs for a .44 rifle and a .44 handgun and there lies the problem.
Yep. The 44 Mag rifles (not just Marlins?) tend to be over-bored, and the 45 Colts tend to be over-chambered, and coupled with the cylinder throat and forcing cone 'issues' so many revolvers have, it gets to be a pain in the butt.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws "first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Well I'll be hanged! Two different specs. , one for rifle and one for revolver . Never even thought of that. I guess I don't have to grumble about marlins now and feel a lot better about them .
Will shoot SWC @ .431 either revolver or rifle, LFN @ .433 for rifle only .
Didn't trust my self to just use one brand of cases for each to separate the difference. Use a different shape bullet to brand it into my brain.
Thank you all for the most enlightening info. especially about the two different SAAMI specs
John
Gettin old ain't for sissies!
There just has to be dogs in heaven !
I have checked out a new barrel. McGowen has an octagonal one with a .429 bore for $310 plus shipping. Gunsmith probably another $300- $400 to chamber, blue, dove tail cuts for sight and install.
I have all the casting equip. and 400# of wheel weights and time so all I have to buy is mold and sizing die for about $240 for both..will go that route.
John
Gettin old ain't for sissies!
There just has to be dogs in heaven !
It would seem that the Browning 92s that have oversize groove diameters of about .431-.432" aren't actually out of spec at all, just larger than we'd prefer.
This may be a part of why many report having problems with some bullets, sometimes attributed to the rifling twist rate. If the bullets fit well, it may help.
No help to those that have slugged the bores and sized bullets accordingly, with no joy, like Sixer and his Miroku 92.
These differences in bore dimensions and cartridge lengths between various guns has cooled my interest in pistol caliber rifles to a large degree. If the loads aren't directly interchangeable between the belt gun and long gun, I'd as soon just use a rifle caliber rifle. For those that found loads that work great in both, well done! 3 cheers! I just haven't found it that simple to find.
The pistol caliber guns are cheap and fun to shoot, just not as useful as field guns to me as they first seemed.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
Well I did an about face and decided to get an new barrel. Ordered a Doulas XX premium barrel. Sent a check, back in Dec., to Regan Nonneman to get in line. Sent rifle to him about two weeks ago. Should get it back in a week or two. Having him set up a heavy octagon barrel , 24",on it. I like muzzle heavy.
Still will be able to still use mold and just size, one size, that will work in both rifle and pistol
Getting excited bout getting it back and playing.
John
Gettin old ain't for sissies!
There just has to be dogs in heaven !
I have a Shilen barrel squirreled away for a 44 mag project like you're talking about. It is .429 groove and a 1/20" twist. Will be waiting for your range report also. Thanks, Les
This is plagiarized from someone else, but I love it!
I was born a gun owner.
It wasn't a choice.
I didn't become one later in life.
I was born this way.
I purchased a Puma with a slugged barrel @ .432"+. I was fairly new to reloading/casting for rifles having reloaded and cast for handguns for 25 years. I ended up with a couple Ranch Dog molds in .44 caliber, RNFP GC, one at 240 gr, and the other at 265 gr. I consulted with Ranch Dog and he sent me the molds (265 first) and a push through sizing die .433" and recommended dip lubing with alox. Problem solved. My Puma (with receiver sight) now shoots as good as I can...
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
Old Savage, I had a Browning 92 that shot terrible...sold it at a loss, almost didn't buy (trade for ). the one I've got now which drives tacks with cast or jacketed bullets. Never slugged either one. Had a Rossi Puma that I returned to their service dept twice and they finally found a good barrel for it (44 mag). They rebarrelled twice under warranty. No complaints on the old Legacy Sports service..( haven't needed to find out about Braztech's service).. I guess these 44 mag carbines are something of a stuff shoot.
This is plagiarized from someone else, but I love it!
I was born a gun owner.
It wasn't a choice.
I didn't become one later in life.
I was born this way.
From what I recall, Marlin 44 cal rifles were known be larger-than-spec bored. Therefore, the 44 mags and 444's get the best accuracy with .432" diameter cast bullets.
This is really, really good information guys although I was shocked to read of the two different SAAMI specs. I really appreciate someone who goes to the effort to do things right even if it is more expensive. I eagerly await a range report as well! -Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
The CIP --Europe's counterpart to SAAMI-- doesn't have separate specs for a rifle and a handgun version of the .44 Magnum chamber. The SAAMI rifle chamber apparently was done by Marlin; it has the micro-groove rifling. Marlin was likely the first to chamber the .44 Mag in a rifle, so they got to set the chamber specs. New specs may have been desirable for a cartridge for which the pressure barrel chambers are cut to simulate a revolver cylinder. However, it beats me how ammo makers are supposed to deal with this. I imagine one chamber has proven to have higher pressures than the other, and they all use that in developing ammo.
mikld wrote:I purchased a Puma with a slugged barrel @ .432"+. I was fairly new to reloading/casting for rifles having reloaded and cast for handguns for 25 years. I ended up with a couple Ranch Dog molds in .44 caliber, RNFP GC, one at 240 gr, and the other at 265 gr. I consulted with Ranch Dog and he sent me the molds (265 first) and a push through sizing die .433" and recommended dip lubing with alox. Problem solved. My Puma (with receiver sight) now shoots as good as I can...
Yep, this whole 44mag bore spec thing came up in the mid 2000's. Some time after Rossi re-tooled (about 2000) the 44 mag 92's were coming with oversize bores. Unlike the previous guns (the InterArms imported guns) which were .429-.430 the LSI Puma's and the EMF Rossi 92's were now .432-.434.
At that time I was a warranty station for EMF. After many complaints and Rossi insisting they were within SAAMI Rifle spec Rossi eventually went with the pistol specs by mid 2000's. Our argument was even though they were correct for SAAMI 44mag Rifle. The problem in the real world was no one sold ammo specifically for the rifles. None of the major manufacturers even offered a bullet to make the ammo.
So, current Rossi's are .429.
I'm betting the lawyers got this started as a liability issue.
Maybe the manufactor should start stamping the barrel with the correct size of bore so that it is less confusing for future owners of said guns...They got all kinds of warnings on them now, what would four more digits amount to?, that actually contained some useful information...
Seems somebody definately screwed up on making two different sizes of bores for the same named cartridge... just plain stupd.
(discloser) Not a gunsmith, just a tinkerer at heart, it gets me into trouble, When I take it apart...
Slug barrel. Cast mold of chamber. Size bullets & brass accordingly. Problem solved.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
Verrrry interesting thread. And here I sit with the opposite finding: I have two Ruger Redhawks with .431 bores, and a couple of Rossi's (a 44 mag and a 44/40) that slug .429.
The Rossi 44 mag accepts the .431 bullets I make for the revolvers so I am just fine there. And the 44/40 doesn't accept a bullet larger than .430 but also doesn't like the heavier bullets I shoot in the 44 mags, so I really don't seem to have a problem related to the slightly different bore diameters.
I had never heard of the different SAAMI specs for pistol vs rifle, so much thanks for the info mikld. And thanks to everybody that contributed.
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies. Patrick Henry
I say that is wrong, check it on the computer, he says that is the information he has in front of him 
. Well all he can do is say all information is proprietary and in house cannot give it out. . Gamble on sending it in and they cannot even tell me anything until they get it. Cannot even tell me the diameter of what the replacement barreled action would be.. nothing .. nada ..zip. Grrrrr blankety blank. Will get a mold and start making lead the right size for it .
.***
. Never even thought of that. I guess I don't have to grumble about marlins now and feel a lot better about them . 
so all I have to buy is mold and sizing die for about $240 for both..will go that route.
bout getting it back and playing.
