Rossi 92 carbine and the .44/40 HV

[Carlsen Highway]

Guys,

Here is my Rossi 92 carbine, got pretty nice wood on it, best I've seen on a Rossi lever action.

I dont shoot CAS or plink much, I have my rifles for deer hunting and so I have been making up loads to imitate the high velocity .44 WCF loading from the 1920's, and finished up with 24 grains of H4227 and a 200g Hornady XTP bullet in Starline brass. This load will shoot five rounds in three inches at 100 yards.

I chronographed the load the other day and got 1633 fps out of it....





The only tip I have with this operation is a good roll crimp - not a Lee die crimp. I assummed going in that the Lee Crimp Die was the answer for me same as it had been in the .30/30, but I found the crimp was failing. The bullets wont stay in place for long, no matter how hard you do the crimp die with the thin .44-40 brass, and you get a lot of unburnt H4227 powder grains.
In despair I just roll crimped them in the die for the hell of it, and it worked perfectly - the rounds are locked in place and hardly any powder residue at all.
I swear by the Lee crimp die for the .30/30, but not in the .44 WCF.

I am going to get a peep sight to fit the rear sight dovetail, as my 44 year old eyes are not seeing the rear sight so well as a couple of years ago it seems. I tried turning the rear sight round the other way, but it looked funny and had to be lifted too high in elevation for my liking.

I have been very keen to use this load on a deer. I nearly shot a young red stag with this rifle and load a couple of weeks ago, i had him dead to rights at only ten yards - but he was staring right at me and I hadnt lifted the shoulder to my shoulder yet. He didn't know what I was...and I was slowly moving the rifle up....and then he spooked after a full minute of this. It was thick bush and he was gone in a second.

[Pete44ru]

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WOW ! ! - That's easily the best issue wood I've ever seen on a Rossi ! !

It surely looks like you're good to go !

I D/T'd a single 6-48 hole in the top of each receiver sidewall, just ahead of the locking lug recess, for a Williams 5D-94SE (Winchester side/angle eject), mounted closer to the eye (as a peep should be) - which worked very well with the issue front sight blade, readily zeroing with a few shots.






.

[AJMD429]

Some thoughts...

Look for my post on 'Sight Options' before spending too much money - it shows many commonly used and affordable levergun aperture options. . . > Link

Here's a post specifically on the Williams FP installation on a Rossi - > Link

As far as the Lee 'Factory Crimp' dies, I surely like them, and ironically, used the 44-40 one for 44 Mag until I could get a 'custom order' one for 44 Mag that was the 'rifle' type (like the 44-40) vs. the 'pistol' type (like the normal 44 Mag). Haven't ever used one for the 44-40 though, so perhaps there is a diameter issue or something. You might give Lee a call, and see what the deal is; they will probably fix it perfectly if you send them a factory or reload round that is dimensionally what you desire.

[ollogger]

That's a fine looking Rossi!! I got just the opposite for wood on mine (45)
thanks for the tip on the Lee FCD I use a lot of them but will try the roll crimp on a 44-40
& see what happens, hope you get a crack at a animal with it soon!



ollogger

[Lefty Dude]

For an extra firm crimp with the 44WCF, I double crimp. Roll crimp first, then use the Lee FCD.
Just hope you never attempt to break one down if you make a mistake.
Works for me.

[1886]

The crimping challenges with the .44-40 are generally due to very thin brass thickness in the neck portion of the case. 1886.

[Carlsen Highway]

AJ thanks for the link to your post detailing the different aperture sights. I have used the old Lyman 66's before, but not the others.
I remembered now I saw your picture on your post actually happen to have what you call a Marbles bullseye sight in my parts box that I picked u somewhere as a curiosity and never used, someone had buggered around with the elevator, and the dovetail is too wide for it on the Rossi, but, maybe I can fix it, and shim it with some aluminium from a can....I will go and have a look.

[AJMD429]

I remembered now I saw your picture on your post actually happen to have what you call a Marbles bullseye sight in my parts box that I picked u somewhere as a curiosity and never used, someone had buggered around with the elevator, and the dovetail is too wide for it on the Rossi, but, maybe I can fix it, and shim it with some aluminium from a can....I will go and have a look.

Yep...I used exactly that to shim mine.

I and my son/daughters have Rossi's in 357 Mag, 44 Mag, and 45 Colt, in 16" 20", and 24"...

We all keep the Marble's 'Bullseye' sight on the 16" ones - because they are the fastest sight out there, and very durable, the only drawback being the 'drift' method of sighting them in.

We also prefer the Williams FP for our 20" ones, as they are more precisely adjustable, 'almost' as fast, and equally rugged.

For our 24" rifles, we mostly have put 'Tang' sights (The ones Taurus sells for their rifles) on them, as they offer more sight radius, therefore great precision ONCE you have them sighted-in, in exchange for more fragility and far less 'speed'.

For my '45' calibers, this is my logic:

• a) the 16" 454 Casull (equivalent of a 'trapper' model) wears the FAST sight - Marble's Bullseye,
  b) the 20" 454 Casull (the 'standard' pistol-cartridge levergun) wears the precise, easily adjustable sight - Williams 'FP', and
  c) the 24" 45 Colt (more of a 'nostalgia' or 'target' gun) wears the more precise, if less easily adjustable, 'Tang' sight.

To be honest, if I could only have ONE of the above, I'd take the 16" with the Marble's.....harder to sight in, but once you've done that, it is the fastest thing you can imagine...

[Carlsen Highway]

Yes that all makes good sense to me and I know what you mean.
The bullseye sight is on the rifle now, no real issues. It looks a little bit like the gunsite on a 20mm Oerlikon cannon, but thats ok, I can get used to it.

I only wonder about the elevation, although there are notches in the elevator, the sight only seems to catch in two of them, and I wonder if the sight even without the elevator in, is a little high...but I wont know until I shoot it. But definately this sight is a major improvement on what I was dealign with before.
Before I was shooting my loads for accuracy and having to sellotape thick recoil pads on the butt end of the gun just so I could see the sights well enough to shoot it off the bench. I am now looking forward to reshooting some groups with this sight; even if I cant get it sighted in properly, I can shoot some groups and do some load testing.

Next question when putting a peep sight on a rifle like this, and I bet you know what I am going to ask - who sells replacement taller front sights that fit a Rossi dovetail? Anyone?

[M. M. Wright]

I too have a Rossi in 44-40 however mine has the octagon barrel and wood that is nowhere near as good as yours. Mine came with a Lyman tang sight installed and I really like it. With another real Winchester 92 in 44-40 that I had rebarreled to a 20 inch octagon, I killed a nice whitetail at 90+ yards. The load was with the 200 grain XTP over some WW296. The rest of that box is marked "92 ONLY" and I sure wouldn't want any of them to find their way into one of my Colts.

[w30wcf]

Nice rifle! There is a "Team .44-40" at Marlinowners.
One does not need a 44-40 Marlin to join in on the sharing of information and fun.

There is a recent post on duplicating the early .44-40 HV cartridges there.
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/team-44-40/

Here's another...
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/team- ... ryear.html

w30wcf

[Nath]

That is a hum dinger of a load

[Carlsen Highway]

Yes, she is up there for a .44-40...

But the max load according to ADI Australia for H4227/Ar2205 with a 200 grain (lead) bullet is 24.0 grains, they have no info for a jacketed 200grain bullet, but if you skip to the .44 Mag, I find that 24.0 grains is one grain less than a starting load...so I figure it might be a stiff load for .44WCF brass, but not unreasonable for the Winchester 92 design. The brass life will tell me about it, although I am not sure that the signs will be the same in a lever action low powered cartridge like this; I suppose once the primer pockets get lose I will have to junk cases? I am on the third time round with my batch of cases and so far all is well.

W30wcf - thanks for that link, - some more .44-40 people!