I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

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AJMD429
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I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by AJMD429 »

Ok, so I had to type this up at home (no time at work), put it on a flash drive, take it to work, then quickly log-on to the forum and cut/paste/post it. . . . . BECAUSE WE CAN'T GET INTERNET AT HOME...!!!

How would you get reliable reasonably-fast internet if:
  • 1. There is no DSL line to our house - it stops about a mile away, and we are on a 'dead-end' phone line and the only land-line customer past that point, so it won't come here any time soon.

    2. There is no Cable service to our house - for the same reasons.

    3. We tried Satellite, and after a year of only getting good signals when the sky was clear, we started getting disconnected mid-web-page even in good weather. They came out and told us we needed to move our dish, and marked the spot; so I trenched, laid conduit, put in a concrete pad, bought their $75 special pole, and they came out and relocated the dish and re-aimed it. We couldn't get on-line so they said it was our WiFi, even though we ALSO couldn't get on-line connecting directly to the modem with a cable. So $350 later we had a completely re-done WiFi - the best one the store had. Still couldn't stay on-line reliably even in perfect weather. They said it was the WiFi again, but we went back to Ethernet cables and still couldn't stay on-line. So they replaced the modem, and they replaced the transceiver on the dish, and we stay on-line for maybe five minutes before disconnecting, and speeds vary from 3Mbps half the time to 0.3 Mbps download the other half. They say they can get us an upgraded style transceiver that "should help" but we have to sign a one year contract - they refuse to do any sort of 'test-run' to see if it would work - and of course they say it will still fail whenever there is rain or snow or lots of clouds. Since their other service has sucked, I am not eager to sign up for a year, which means probably over a thousand dollars, just to find out that this one does too. If they really felt their product was good, they should be able to guarantee it by letting us out of the contract if the service is unreliable.

    4. We found out that there is Ground-to-Ground service (wireless via towers) available in our county, with "up to 25 Mbps download speeds", but............no towers on our side of the hills, or whatever, so they told us they can't provide service to our house.

    5. Our Cellphones get 3G always and 4G usually "at the road" but our house is 300 yards from the road, and at the house, they don't get 3G or 4G, and only get "one bar" signal most of the time. We can text at home, but can't use voice, for example. If we want to use voice on our cellphones, or text a photo, we have to walk down to the road. We are putting on a metal roof, and it hasn't seemed to worsen things (how can you get too much worse than one bar signal strength...?), but I thought perhaps that would actually help things if we had a rooftop antenna due to the ground-plane effect. However, standing on the metal roof I still only get one bar signal and sometimes none.

    6. Due to no voice ability on cellphones, we keep our land-line, and used to haveDial-Up service, but the past few years, the land-line got so lousy whenever it rained (goes through a mile of 'swamp' to get to our house) it was unusable. (So much hum that when you pick up the phone you can't hear the dial-tone stop when you start pushing numbers to dial, and conversations are barely possible.) We are on a dead-end phone line stub, so each time it floods we have to turn in a service request, and in a few days they come out to 'fix' it, but by then it is dry again, so it works anyway - until the next flood. I don't think they're going to re-do a mile of land-line for one customer.
So.....................what to do...................?

I thought about putting a cellular antenna down by the road (we have a building there it could go in), but two problems I can see:
  • a) we would need a way for the signal to make it the 300 yards to our house reliably, and I'm not aware of any WiFi that strong, and

    b) everyone seems to want a 2-year contract to set anything up, and we learned the hard way that even if you realize the service sucks after a few weeks, you're stuck.
Actually - three problems... :oops:
  • c) I know lots of things can be done 'theoretically' (a guy I used to know built his own pair of microwave transceivers with directional antennas, and put one on a neighbor's house three miles away who had DSL, so he could get high-speed internet at a location that didn't even have a land-line), but I don't know enough to do that sort of stuff myself, or even know who would know enough to do it and get it right (the cellphone places I talk to pretty much just know how to do the 'normal' stuff). I don't mind paying for whatever works, but don't know even what I should be asking for other than "Get Me Some Reliable Internet....!", so would be vulnerable to being ripped off, as well.
Anyway, I'm curious as to if any of you guys, especially out in remote areas, have had similar problems, and if so, how you solved them.
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by Ji in Hawaii »

Starbucks with a laptop for free fast internet but use a VPN so local hackers don't get info from your computer while there.
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by crs »

Ji may be right!

Enjoy the peace and tranquility of your rural residence and use your computer at work and other "civilized" placed where you get service. This may add years to you life. 8)
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by Old Ironsights »

Gonna have to do a couple of things:

#1: Build an ariel near the road - but it's got to have power. (solar will work)
#2: Get a Booster. https://www.weboost.com/us/ Boosters do not require a contract.
#3: Wire the booster into a directional antenna. http://www.zboost.com/solutions-products/antennas.html
#4: Get a receiver for your house (another booster)
#5: Use Cellular.

Thing is, you are going to be into around $2000 for just the hardware to do it right - plus the cost of the Tower.

Somebody in Indy should be able to set it up. (Go see a Motorola Radio contractor. They can send you in the right direction.)
Last edited by Old Ironsights on Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:46 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by FWiedner »

The expensive best solution.

Fiber.

:)
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by SteveR »

ADSL will never work, its limited by distance, Ohms Law.
The cell repeater will repeat the high speed data portion of the signal, but the repeated has to be for the specific carriers frequency. So you need to know who's service you will be usng, ATT, VZ, ect.
As OI said you will need to power it and use Cat5e cable or better Cat6 equivalent cable to avoid to much loss.
Or pay for Cable TV to run a co-axial cable to you and use they technology. Might be the cheapest route, especially if you have the cable tv ran over existing electric poles to your house.

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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by Grizz »

You touched on what I think is the most practical solution, two directional-antennas. They look like rectangular tubes mounted vertically, and the real world distance can be as much as 35 miles. That will still have viscisitudes of propagation. And relies on the signal at the sender location. I believe these antennas are commercially available and don't require any particular expertise to install and operate.

My experience with 2-way satellite was in Alaska. Hughes was the supplier and owner operator of the satellites. Even though their footprint put us at the edge, I got consistent reliable signals. The competing satellite provider, I forget the brand, not so much.

I built the set-up twice, one at my house, and one at the city library with a Gates Foundation grant to rural Alaska communities. The library setup was piped to city hall with a cable and supplied the city's connection. I installed the antennas and hardware at both places and lined up the antennas myself. A local guy was the Hughes 'installer' and he turned it on with his virtual 'key'.

Snowfall had almost no effect on the signal until it piled up on the transmitter and plastered itself onto the dish, requiring a broom to restore the connection. Horizontal rain would degrade the signal. Wind that moved the antenna around would degrade the signal.

So, do you have satellite t.v.? Or does anyone in line of site from you have reliable satellite t.v.? Because if you could get a decent t.v. signal, you can get a decent internet connection. The data is on the same exact down link. With 2-way satellite we were using one meter (+/-) dishes. Sketchy satellite signals can be reliably boosted with large dishes. A two meter dish will be an order of magnitude better than a one meter dish. The local school had a two meter dish on their own Hughes network account.

A note about the installers and technicians you might have experience with. Most of them know less about how stuff works than you would think. They know how to plug parts together. Like the guy at the gas station who can replace your windshield wiper. They probably don't know how to make the functional equivilant of a windshield wiper from spahgnum moss and dental floss. KWIM?

I don't know if this is any help. Any questions?
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by Old Ironsights »

SteveR wrote:ADSL will never work, its limited by distance, Ohms Law.
The cell repeater will repeat the high speed data portion of the signal, but the repeated has to be for the specific carriers frequency. So you need to know who's service you will be usng, ATT, VZ, ect.
The Wilson Electronics/"Weboost" boosters are supposedly multi-spectrum and can run on any network.
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by Blaine »

How far from the last TV Cable connection? They might make the connection for you if you run the cable to your place at your expense. You can rent a cable trencher, and buy cable cheaper than some of these schemes.... :idea:
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by Griff »

For a number of years I ran a dial-up on a second, dedicated phone line to our house. Old house, wired with 4-wire phone line. EarthLink then announced that DSL would be available in our area. We signed up. All good for about 3 years. Then a lightning strike took out the phone box at the end of our road. 2 days and AT&T had the phones up and working. After 7 days of AT&T and EarthLink pointing at each other and saying the problem was the other guys, EarthLink admitted that they just leased the DSL leg of the phone line from AT&T. (2 of those 4 wires). I then called AT&T and asked how I could get DSL. They said flip a coupla switches on their end. 20 minutes later & $30 less a month I had AT&T DSL. Still do.

Find out who owns the phone lines and talk directly to them.
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by flatnose »

take a look at captifi by radiolabs.com. I dont know much about it but they claim a range of 1 mile or more depending on model.
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by SteveR »

BlaineG wrote:How far from the last TV Cable connection? They might make the connection for you if you run the cable to your place at your expense. You can rent a cable trencher, and buy cable cheaper than some of these schemes.... :idea:
+1
I already stated that earlier, but great minds think alike!! hahahahaha

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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by SteveR »

Old Ironsights wrote:
SteveR wrote:ADSL will never work, its limited by distance, Ohms Law.
The cell repeater will repeat the high speed data portion of the signal, but the repeated has to be for the specific carriers frequency. So you need to know who's service you will be usng, ATT, VZ, ect.
The Wilson Electronics/"Weboost" boosters are supposedly multi-spectrum and can run on any network.
Good to know, thanks!!

Steve
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by handirifle »

I also was going to suggest a web booster. If there is one bar at your house it might work right there. If no, go the directional antennae and send it to the house. Then get a MyFi hotspot, that will allow multiple users on the same line. It is "about" DSL speed.

We built a new home in the country in 2009 (still here) and we are too far away from DSL (the phone line guys solution was to move closer to town, thanks pal), and the cable company laughs at questions about cable out here.

The hotspot actually works pretty decent. We had about 3 bars signal so didn't need a booster.
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by vancelw »

I've used satellite for almost 10 years. I think you just need a new provider and technician. I'm currently using wildblue/Exceed with no issues and great customer support which is rare nowadays. My modem went bad recently and it was replaced within 48 hours (I reported it on a Sunday). While the tech was here he ran all kinds of diagnostics since the service call was already covered for the warranty on the modem.
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by AJMD429 »

Some good suggestions - keep 'em coming... I'll check in whenever I can get to the office to see any new thoughts.

Some of the technology I 'sort-of' understand (old electronics geek, and HAM licensee) but wouldn't know what would interface with what, so I'll have to get hold of some Motorola or other 'radio' folks to do the actual install unless I find one of the directional WiFi extenders could actually work from our roof. At least I'm learning some of the options and vocabulary here thanks to you guys so I know some of the questions to ask.
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by handirifle »

I too have Exede and am fine with it. It's not cable speed by any means but most of the time speeds are decent. Reception has never been an issue, but then again, lately, neither have rain clouds or snow :( .
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by M. M. Wright »

We haven't had a land line for years and our internet connection is satellite (Hughesnet) that has gotten progressively slower. Probably need a new computer. We've been mostly happy with Hughes but I do notice that the speed gets slower when we exceed a certain amount of data.
I put in a WiFi so the kids could play on their phones/tablets all over the house. With a metal roof and foil backed styrafoam insulation phone reception is minimal in the house so we go out on the deck or porch for phone conversations.
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by SteveR »

M. M. Wright wrote:We haven't had a land line for years and our internet connection is satellite (Hughesnet) that has gotten progressively slower. Probably need a new computer. We've been mostly happy with Hughes but I do notice that the speed gets slower when we exceed a certain amount of data.
Don't waste your money on upgrading your computer, unless you need to. HughsNet is notorious for throttling down you speed. They only have so much bandwidth that, when more people are trying to download, you must share whats there, so more people less speed. Same with Cable TV internet, everybody shares the connection, more people online, slower your internet speed.

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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by M. M. Wright »

Yeah Steve, we have Directv satellite and lately I can't get most of the HD channels when I want them. Don't they call it throttling?
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by SteveR »

Your HD problem may be the satellite receiver, or the positioning of your satellite dish has moved or is no longer pointing at the HD satellite.
Throttling is the intentional slowing down of download and upload speeds of your internet connection, by your service provider. The providers do it because they don't have enough bandwidth to give you constant speed.

Think of a pipe, it when full will only let so much water flow, no matter how hard you push the water. It's the size of the pipe that determines how much water gets pumped. So, the only fix is put in a bigger pipe, but its very expensive to put more satellites in orbit, so they "throttle" or limit the amount of the water you can send or receive.

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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by AJMD429 »

What is really weird about our cellular service is that just now I was only getting one bar vs 5 of signal strength and yet I was on 4G mode which I thought meant that high-speed traffic was available. 20 minutes ago I had a three bar signal and it wasn't even 3G, but just said "1x". Until I can figure out why it would fluctuate so much when I am in exactly the same place, I can't really make an informed decision about boosters and antennas and so on. The people at the cellular stores seem to know all about the plans and the options, but nothing about the technology. So far, calling and getting tech support has been fairly disappointing as well.

As far as satellite, the dish was recently re-aimed and the transceiver replaced, and I have been told that pretty much all of the places offering satellite internet are using the space on the same satellite which they lease from wild blue. If that is the case then the technology may just stink for the weather patterns around here, or perhaps the other companies have much superior technical support or installation, but when I call them, I get the same impression I do when I talk to people at cellular phone stores. All sales pitches and contracts, but no understanding of the technology, or willingness to do anything without a contract.

I would be happy to pay heavy installation costs, or sign a long-term contract, if they would guarantee me that within the first 90 days I would get fairly reasonable speeds and be able to stay online consistently or the contract would be null and void.

Evidently none of them are that confident that their service works. :roll:
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by Old Ironsights »

It fluctuates based on the Load on the tower.

Any individual Tower can handle only X# of Tx/Rx requests.

The closest/strongest signal from a handheld will always take priority.

As people (driving) from Cell to Cell are handed off, the 4g/3g/1x signal degrades then upgrades.

1x is the slowest, but has the greatest range - so works on the fewest bars.
4G is Fastest, but has shorter range.

If you are i a location that fluctuates between 3 Bars 3g and 1 bar 1x, then you are in the middle of a Cell Overlap and are bouncing between 2 towers as drivers closer to the towers monopolize short-range bandwidth.

Make sense?
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by JohndeFresno »

M. M. Wright wrote:We haven't had a land line for years and our internet connection is satellite (Hughesnet) that has gotten progressively slower... I do notice that the speed gets slower when we exceed a certain amount of data...
That is called "Throttling" and (at least in California) it has been exposed as being illegal.

Hughes Net is not an honorable or reliable service provider. They were successfully sued and I received a stipend. See below.

I tried Hughes net for a while. Many times, the speed was extremely slow, per online tests that I ran. They are available free through various sites, by the way.

My signed contract promised a certain upload and download speed, which Hughes Net did not provide on several occasions. And their reception failed fairly frequently during a certain part of the year. If memory serves, it was Summer when there are solar flares. I complained but got no relief or credit for the lost service.

I pulled out and cancelled my automatic credit payments, started up with AT&T U-Verse and have been there ever since.

Hughes Net demanded full payment for the year. I countered with an offer of two months' payment for one month of service, given the fact that they had incurred costs during the free installation. But I told the company representative (or subscription manager or whatever) that I was being kind, because they had voided their contract anyway due to misrepresenting the upload and download speeds, and stating in their literature that their service was as reliable as cable except for possibly just a day or two out of the year.

A Hughes Net guy told me on the phone that they would have to pursue court action. I said, fine - go ahead. I told them that I was (at that time) a veteran law enforcement investigator and consumer fraud expert with a well established, clean credit record. I advise that I have documentation, lots of time and that I will make sure that our local newspapers will cover the trial. I added that they will pay a representative his salary, per diem and travel expenses to come to my town, which will exceed what they expect to win, and then they will lose, anyway. And I let them know that frankly, I probably know whomever will sit on the bench.

I then rescinded my offer and state that I was looking forward to the court trial.

Shortly later, I received either an e-mail or letter (don't remember) stating that they would accept my payment for two months' service and my account would be closed, "paid in full." I laughed out loud. Since I had other matters to take care of, I paid the amount and dispensed with the nuisance.

A year or two later, I received a notice of a class action suit that was based precisely on Hughes Net's fraudulent representations and insufficient level of service, and then received a small check after completing some paperwork and waiting a short time. I don't remember the amount, but it is clear that Hughes Net was slimeballing their customers and got caught.

Doc - stay away from Hughes Net.


UPDATE - it was 2012; I was paid $40 (but paid more than that for 2 months' service). Here is one of several links explaining the lawsuit precisely as describe above:
http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-sett ... ettlement/
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by Rusty »

I have a friend that uses Wildblue in rural Virgina. The cable provider in his area services houses 3/4 of a mile from his place but they won't come any closer. He is retired and a computer geek who is constantly downloading different programs to try. With Wildblue he has found that from something like midnight to 5 AM there is unlimited downloads so if he if downloading Linux programs he gets up to take advantage of it. He also has higher up and down speeds than I do with my DSL from Verizon.
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by AJMD429 »

Old Ironsights wrote:If you are in a location that fluctuates between 3 Bars 3g and 1 bar 1x, then you are in the middle of a Cell Overlap and are bouncing between 2 towers as drivers closer to the towers monopolize short-range bandwidth.

Make sense?
Yeah, but I fluctuate between 3-4 bars 1x and 1 bar 4G - that seems strange. :?

From what the cell company guy told me (he said they weren't supposed to reveal where there cell towers are), there's only one we could possibly access from our house.

Anyway, it drives me nuts. I'm sure if someone with enough money or connected to the dot-gov wanted internet where I live, they'd have it easily.
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by Old Ironsights »

Naaah, seems about right to me.

As for the "only tower you should be able to access" - when I lived in Michigan City, I would regularly find my phone connecting to a 1x signal from well into Michigan - even though it should have been out of range. How do I know where the tower was? It kept changing my phone from Central to Eastern time...
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Re: I can't get internet....!!!! Any suggestions...???

Post by Griff »

There is a way to keep your phone from changing the time on it. I travel extensively throughout the 4 time zones, but have to keep a log based on my home time zone. Until I got my phone to stay on Central time, I was forever fouling that log up. Now I keep the log on my laptop, (mucho, more betta... easier on my poor math skills, easier to cheat if I was so inclined, and far, far neater in it's printed outputs)!

OI, your explanation of the changeable ways of cell signals was far better than anything I've heard postulated, even by industry "experts"... who I guess are trying to dumb-down their techno-speak. And better than my son's & mine... we joke, "...guess Sprint is tired of us tying up the line!" Since we often talk 3-5 times a day when we're both on the road!
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