45-70 or .348

[rjohns94]

So, I'm looking at purchasing either a browning carbine 1886 in 45-70 or a Winchester 71 in .348. Both are in excellent shape. Negatives for both that m looking for are neither is tapped for receiver sights. Hate to say it but I would have to have that done as the sights just don't do it for me anymore.

Your thoughts? Which one?

[M. M. Wright]

I have the Browning 86 carbine. Mine had the receiver sight on when I bought it so don't know if it had to be drilled and tapped or not. I think the 45-70 is a very adaptable caliber. Many different bullets and loadings allow you to do almost anything with it.
I wouldn't hesitate to drill and tap a Browning as I doubt there'll ever be much collector interest in them that will make it less valuable. Heck, mine's been shortened to a 19 inch barrel. Sure makes it handy.

[Grizz]

Mike, is there anything the 348 can do that the 45/70 cannot?

Or vice-versa?

Which has the better selection of bullets and loads?

Which one has the "it" factor for you?

A lot of folks really like the 348.

If throw-weight is a consideration, the choice narrows rapidly . . .

The Brownings are fine firearms and you will appreciate either one.

[Blaine]

I'd go for the .348.....I had a JapChester 1886 EL, and found it to be cumbersome, and picky on OAL to a point that I had to load for it separately. (Loads that chambered in my Marlin would not in the 1886.) Maybe the Browning iteration is different.

[Daisyman]

So, I'm looking at purchasing either a browning carbine 1886 in 45-70 or a Winchester 71 in .348. Both are in excellent shape. Negatives for both that m looking for are neither is tapped for receiver sights. Hate to say it but I would have to have that done as the sights just don't do it for me anymore.

Your thoughts? Which one?

There isn't ANY way shape or form that I'd d&t an excellent model 71 Winchester. Those little holes will cost you $500 a piece in value. I know 71's are hard to find, but the later ones use a Lyman side mounted peep sight that uses the factory holes, if that would do you. Otherwise I'd find a 95 Marlin in 45-70 and put a scope on that, if you're looking for optics.
I used a four digit Winchester 71 deluxe to hunt deer for many years, and I really like the .348 cartridge, so I can see why you'd want to go that way, but I just cringe at drilling those holes....

[2X22]

Owning both, my vote is tossed in the ring for the 71. Mine will shot under 3" at 200 yards with the bolt mounted peep. More power than most of us will ever need in this lifetime.

[vancelw]

Are you sure the Browning 1886 is not D&T'd for receiver sights? Every one I have ever seen was.

That being said, I'd buy the Winchester 71.

Why? Because I already have a Browning 1886 SRC and 71 (They both were factory drilled for receiver sights and sport them)

If I was going to put a peep on a Winchester 71 I would try to find a bolt mounted one, like the deluxe version had.

[tman]

BUY BOTH! Have the Browning 348 carbine and the Browning 86 SRC. Pre lawyer guns. Craftmanship and shoot ability are excellent. They don't build them like this no more.

[Daisyman]

Are you sure the Browning 1886 is not D&T'd for receiver sights? Every one I have ever seen was.

That being said, I'd buy the Winchester 71.

Why? Because I already have a Browning 1886 SRC and 71 (They both were factory drilled for receiver sights and sport them)

If I was going to put a peep on a Winchester 71 I would try to find a bolt mounted one, like the deluxe version had.

If my memory serves me right, you also have to have the bolt to go with that original bolt mounted peep sight. I can't remember just how that is attached, but I think there are a couple of grooves machined in the top of the bolt for the sight, and a cross pin to hold it in. Correct me if I'm off base about that.

When we're talking about "receiver sights" do you mean 'tang' sights or mounted on the side of the receiver? On my 71's the long tang one has no holes in either the tang or receiver. On the 1956 version there's only the receiver mounted sight and no holes for a tang sight. On the Browning .348 made in 84, it is the same as the 1956, model 71, screws for the side mount peep and no holes for the tang sight. That should narrow down your search.

And as TMAN said, buy both. Check out the fit of the Browning in the bottom picture.....outstanding.







Irv

[vancelw]

Are you sure the Browning 1886 is not D&T'd for receiver sights? Every one I have ever seen was.
Why? Because I already have a Browning 1886 SRC and Browning 71 (They both were factory drilled for receiver sights and sport them)

When we're talking about "receiver sights" do you mean 'tang' sights or mounted on the side of the receiver? On my 71's the long tang one has no holes in either the tang or receiver.


Irv

Don't know if you were talking to me or Mike, but receiver sights are mounted on the receiver and tang sights are mounted on the tang. Both are forms of peep sights. The Brownings I've seen all are D&T'd for receiver sights. I've got Williams on most of mine. Tang sights are inherently more accurate with their longer sight radius, but I don't like them as well in hunting situations.

I'm not sure how that bolt-mounted peep fit on the Win 71s. It would be hard to find an original of either. If I had a "shooter" instead of a collector I might put a Skinner on it. I don't own any non-shooters

[Malamute]

I've had two of the Browning 86's, neither was D&T'ed from the factory, and none I've seen were. The Browning 71's were, but not 86's. I believe the Miroku/Winchester 86's were D&T'ed from the factory though.

Its fairly simple to D&T the Browning 86's, but go slow and back the tap out a lot to keep the chips clear. Breaking a tap isnt fun.

I've been a long time fan of the 45-70, and they are quite versatile, but have come to appreciate the 348 quite a lot.

Curious, that an 86 would be finicky about OAL compared to a Marlin. The 86 action can handle much longer cartridges than the Marlins. 45-90's arent a problem so long as the loading gate path is clearanced.

[flatnose]

my miroku/win 1886TD is not drilled and tapped. 2000-2001 year.

[guido4198]

Mike,
I'm not sure if I understand the choice you are faced with. If I'm reading correctly...you are trying to decide between a Browning COPY of an 1886 Winchester, and a WINCHESTER M-71.
That's a no brainer...the Winchester is a true classic. The Browning...while it might be a decent rifle is, well...a COPY of a true classic.

OTOH: if BOTH of the rifles you're looking at are copies...It comes back to getting some kind of sighting system you can use, and since we're not talking about original Winchesters...drill away brother...and ENJOY..!!

As to the issue with COL mentioned...I believe the limitation some have observed in those Browning carbines is related to the throat of the chamber. They aren't throated for quite the wide variety of bullets the 45/70 is rightfully famous for, and some folks might want to use.

[buckeyeshooter]

How far are you going to be shooting? A 45/70 becomes a challenge for holdover for me at anything past 200 yards. The .348 I could shoot 250 or maybe even 300 yards. If its for inside 150 yards, flip a coin. A really nice problem to have!

[rjohns94]

Pics of the 1886 and the model 71. Price is an issue as the Winchester is a bit more than the browning. Note, not drill and tapped. 71 on top, 1886 on bottom, top picture.

[Pete44ru]

.

The bolt peep sight, found on some New Haven Winchester Model(s) 64 & 71's, is fitted into a multi-machined recess in the rear half of the bolt top.

IIRC, Montana Vintage Arms once offered a bolt peep ($250) AND would also machine your bolt for the sight (+ $250).

AFAIK, there's no way a New Haven Winchester 71 can be documented as to whether or not it left the factory with the receiver sight prep (2 D/T'd & plugged holes).

Soooooo (my $0.02), I would take the gennie (N.H.Winchester 71) over the clone (Browning whatever) in a N.Y.Minute, then upgrade the Model 71 to factory specs with the receiver sight prep.
(YMMV)



.

[Malamute]

As to the issue with COL mentioned...I believe the limitation some have observed in those Browning carbines is related to the throat of the chamber. They aren't throated for quite the wide variety of bullets the 45/70 is rightfully famous for, and some folks might want to use.

Ah, that makes sense. Getting it throated isnt a big issue if one wanted to shoot loads that were fatter up front.

AFAIK, there's no way a New Haven Winchester 71 can be documented as to whether or not it left the factory with the receiver sight prep (2 D/T'd & plugged holes).

Soooooo (my $0.02), I would take the gennie (N.H.Winchester 71) over the clone (Browning whatever) in a N.Y.Minute, then upgrade the Model 71 to factory specs with the receiver sight prep.
(YMMV)

I think I'd agree with that idea. Get good measurements on location and drill the 71. They look great with the Lyman 56 sights.

[vancelw]

IIRC, Montana Vintage Arms once offered a bolt peep ($250) AND would also machine your bolt for the sight (+ $250).

I think I remember seeing that, too. Ouchie.

Soooooo (my $0.02), I would take the gennie (N.H.Winchester 71) over the clone (Browning whatever) in a N.Y.Minute, then upgrade the Model 71 to factory specs with the receiver sight prep.
(YMMV)

I would love to have a real Winchester 71, and if I do get one, I will shoot the snot out of it.

[Daisyman]

[quote="Pete44ru"].

The bolt peep sight, found on some New Haven Winchester Model(s) 64 & 71's, is fitted into a multi-machined recess in the rear half of the bolt top.

AFAIK, there's no way a New Haven Winchester 71 can be documented as to whether or not it left the factory with the receiver sight prep (2 D/T'd & plugged holes).

You are correct on the bolt peep. I have a 65 .218 Bee and it is that way.

As for the D&T on the receiver, the later 71's were definitely available for the Lyman 56 peep. The picture of mine above is definitely original and there are many examples of them out there.

Irv

[Daisyman]

Pics of the 1886 and the model 71. Price is an issue as the Winchester is a bit more than the browning. Note, not drill and tapped. 71 on top, 1886 on bottom, top picture.

That is a beautiful 71. I don't know what they are asking for it and don't want to know, but unless it's a really good buy, why not find a later 71 like mine that has the side mounted peep already on it.
That way the original is preserved and you get what you want. It's really hard to put that little bit of drilled metal back in those holes, and for what you lose in value you could have the one you want. There's almost always one on gunbroker that's a shooter. IMHO
Irv

[Griff]

.348. Didn't you already have a 1886 carbine and found it lacking?

[Pete44ru]

.

Or, combine the two....................

I've seen a pretty neat custom (Browning) Model 71, that was converted to .45-70, with a full-length magazine.

IDK who the custom gunsmith was (Ed Noonan ?), but now, Cimmaron (Italy) makes a .45-70 Model 71 clone.



.

[Malamute]

.

Or, combine the two....................

I've seen a pretty neat custom (Browning) Model 71, that was converted to .45-70, with a full-length magazine.

I've seen a couple of original 71s rebarreled to 45-70, I think it wasnt uncommon in the past. Funny though, my interest lies in the opposite direction. I'd like to have what would basically be an 86 short rifle in 348. 22" light round barrel, full mag, straight grip, shotgun butt, checkered nice grade wood, sling mounts, Lyman 56 sight, tiny ramp like the 86 XL rifles had. Maybe some very low profile scope bases on the barrel.

[BigSky56]

Get the 71 its is the better hunting rifle Ive found that the mdl 64 and 71 shoulder better for quick shots on game than any other rifles Ive tried there might be a third one a savage 99 something about the stock and pistol grip makes for a excellent hunting rifle. danny

[rjohns94]

.348. Didn't you already have a 1886 carbine and found it lacking?

Griff I gave it to my brother for a birthday present

[Griff]

.348. Didn't you already have a 1886 carbine and found it lacking?

Griff I gave it to my brother for a birthday present

Couldn't remember... not an unusual circumstance. If I ever got rid of my 1886, I might want to try something else... like the mdl 71. But, my 1886 ain't goin' anywhere. I really happen to like the versatility of the .45-70... but am impressed by the ballistics of the .348 when compared to the old 45Gov't.