Winchester 94 receiver sight questions for the experts

[nralover]

Fellas, I finally found a good condition Winnie 94 Trapper (.30-30). It is a pre safety top eject model, with a post front sight as opposed to a bead. I am very interested in installing a receiver sight on this carbine, but I have a few questions. First, is it true that I will not be able to zero a Williams sight with the factory front sight? I really don't want to replace it. Second, is the FP sight really worth the extra cash over the 5D? Any help would be appreciated.

[Pisgah]

I know there are plenty of people who say they have added a receiver sight to a levergun without needing a higher front sight. I won't say that was not the case for them, but over the years I have installed receiver sights on probably two dozen Winchesters and Marlins, and in every case a higher front was required.

So, see if the standard sight works for you, but be prepared to get a higher front.

As to whether the FP is worth the extra cost over the 5D, that depends. If like me you find a load for the rifle you like and stick with it, the 5D is every bit the sight that the FP is. If you are a handloader constantly tinkering with your loads, the FP is much more convenient to readjust as a new load may require.

[yooper2]

The only levergun I've put a receiver sight on and not needed to replace the front sight was a modern Marlin 1895 w/22" barrel. That said, why the aversion to replacing it? There are lot of nice post-style front sight options out there. My favorites are the ones from Skinner.

Pisgah nailed the Fool-proof vs 5D. I like fiddling with loads, my rifles wear Fool-proofs.



Eric

[Pete44ru]

.

+1

I have a like .30-30 Trapper with a steel (newer Lymans are aluminum) Lyman receiver peep sight, and have a fiber-optic front sight blade on it that's about .10" taller than the issue front sight blade.



There's no need to abandon a post-type front sight, if that's the sight that floats your boat, as there are two E-Z-Peazy options for a taller post sight:

* http://www.skinnersights.com will make a plain black post in whatever height you want, or you can simply buy the tallest post sight available and file it down for a zero.

* http://www.xssights.com will make sell you their Whiteline (it has a vertical white line down the center of the sight's face) post sight in whatever height, and the white line is easily blacked out.

When ordering a new front sight for your Trapper, be sure that the ordered sight has a "W" (.531" wide) sight blade base that's needed to fill the entire sight dovetail in the barrel (ramp-mounted front sight use a narrower .340" medium width base).

In any event, be sure to plan on removing the rear barrel open/iron sight for a clean sight picture through a receiver peep sight - the barrel dovetail is easily filled via either buying a commercial dovetail slot filler blank (Lyman, Marbles, Williams, etc) or filing one from the male dovetail section of any olf longleaf rear barrel sight that's handy:



The Williams 5D-94 receiver peep sight, as pointed out above, is a good choice for a gun owner who desires a "set-n-forget" sight, since it has sliding W&E adjustments held by grub screws.

The Williams FP has micrometer screw adjusters, ideal for those shooters who want to be able to make different zeroes @ different distances.


.

[nralover]

The only levergun I've put a receiver sight on and not needed to replace the front sight was a modern Marlin 1895 w/22" barrel. That said, why the aversion to replacing it? There are lot of nice post-style front sight options out there. My favorites are the ones from Skinner.

Pisgah nailed the Fool-proof vs 5D. I like fiddling with loads, my rifles wear Fool-proofs.



Eric

No aversion, really. I'd rather not pony up more cash, if I don't have to.

[J Miller]

Fellas, I finally found a good condition Winnie 94 Trapper (.30-30). It is a pre safety top eject model, with a post front sight as opposed to a bead. I am very interested in installing a receiver sight on this carbine, but I have a few questions. First, is it true that I will not be able to zero a Williams sight with the factory front sight? I really don't want to replace it. Second, is the FP sight really worth the extra cash over the 5D? Any help would be appreciated.

nralover,
No, it is not true that you wont be able to zero the sights with the factory front sight.
I have a 1980 94 Trapper 30-30 that is bone stock with the exception of a Williams FP receiver sight on it. It shoots beautifully with the original front sight.

Yes, the FP is worth the extra money. Granted you'll probably set the sight and never adjust it again, but the ease of adjusting it, and the precision of adjusting it more than compensates for the extra cost.

As an aside, I've only used receiver sights on Winchester 94s. So far never any Marlins. I've never "needed" a taller front sight on any Win 94, however I routinely replace the bead front sights with a similar height patridge or post style front sight. My eyes just will not work with all those circles and dots you get with a bead sight.

Joe

[Booger Bill]

I bought this 94 new in about 1956 when I was 15. Right away I had a pad put on for LOP and a williams foolproof. It has held its zero and the gun is accurate. Never had to move the sight. Set it for 100 yards. I once shot a buck with it around 220 paces. I was a wet snow and he was high above me on a mountain slope. I had the shop put on the foolproof and as far as I know the front sight is original.
I dont use the fine insert just wide open peep.

[BenT]

I use the Williams WDOS with a ghost ring on my trapper.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have Williams sights on several ( 15+) levers,both Winchester and Marlins. I have never HAD to replace a front sight on any of them to get it to zero. I have however replaced front sights to gain a better sight profile as I prefer the Patridge (post) profile to any bead sight. I bought several of the discontinued Marbles Gold topped Patridge sights from Brownells when I learned that they were being discontinued.
When the fire sight fad is over I expect Marbles to resume production of that old favorite again.

[M. M. Wright]

I have and old Pacific receiver sight on my 94 25-35. It is quite similar to the 5D except it is steel. It has been set in the same place for almost 60 years now with no need to adjust.
My 86 Browning wears the Foolproof and never needs adjusting either. But I can if needed which is reassuring.
94 30-30 has a Williams on it but I can't even remember which one.

[AJMD429]

Yes, the FP is worth the extra money. Granted you'll probably set the sight and never adjust it again, but the ease of adjusting it, and the precision of adjusting it more than compensates for the extra cost.

Definitely. The gun is not something you're gonna have for a few months then discard. Worst case you sell it next year 'cuz you decide to buy a semi auto in 300 Win Mag or something ( ) - even then the FP holds resale value.

Realistically, you'll own that gun for a lifetime, so the extra $23 (prices at MidwayUSA $37 vs. $60) will be spread out over your lifetime. If you are in your 50's or 60's, that will be about a dollar a year, (and if you're already 90 years old, maybe ten bucks a year, but you can't take it with you... ).

Like Joe says, it is WAY easier to sight-in...you may save 10-20 rounds of ammunition right there, depending on how precisely you like to sight in. You can make EXACT adjustments with the FP, and they are repeatable.

As far as the front sight, the other guys pretty well covered it. With my eyes, I prefer the fiberoptic fronts, but I have some spare fiber rods and replace the orange ones with green or yellow so they are more subdued in bright light, but help in the woods.

[JerryB]

I have the Foolproof and 5D on several different rifles and have not had to change the front sight on any of them. I have killed deer with them all, must just be lucky.

[buckeyeshooter]

I have both 5D's and Foolproof's. The hard part with the 5D is getting the zero set with no click adjustments. After it is zeroed, works just as well.

[Old Time Hunter]

Fellas, I finally found a good condition Winnie 94 Trapper (.30-30). It is a pre safety top eject model, with a post front sight as opposed to a bead. I am very interested in installing a receiver sight on this carbine, but I have a few questions. First, is it true that I will not be able to zero a Williams sight with the factory front sight? I really don't want to replace it. Second, is the FP sight really worth the extra cash over the 5D? Any help would be appreciated.

Have a '94 Trapper chambered for .44 Mag and just about a year ago went with Williams 5D. After much experimentation with different front sights, realized I could have stuck with the original. But, would limit the adjustability of the Williams and wanted a green fiber fire sight on the front for more visibility. Either a 450W or a 500W front sight will work and keep you in the mid range of the 5D adjustment. The standard front post would be the equivalent of a 440W (435?). So it is quite close.

Use the standard front post on my .444 Timber Carbine with the FP Williams rear and it is dead on...but that is a ramp front sight, but is also the equivalent to the 435W from center of barrel.

Being a terdy-terdy might require the higher sight as it shoots flatter than either my .44 or .444 @ 100 so if it was me...I would start at the 500W

Oh yeah, almost forgot, make sure you use lok tight "blue" on the receiver screws for the Williams...hate to lose those buggers out in the woods.