How Do The Current Crop Of Rossi 92s Stack Up?

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:40 pm

Today's Rossi 92s....Are they reliable? Reasonably smooth? Trigger ok? I hear all about the ones that are all slicked up, but how are they out of the box?

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:15 pm

Here is some Rossi history. For years dating back to 1975 the "made in Brazil" Rossi 92 was imported by InterArms of Alexandria VA. Before InterArms, Firearms International of Washington DC imported Rossi in the 1960’s. From about 1968-74 Garcia Corp. of Washington DC imported Rossi. InterArms was the first to market the Rossi made 92 as their Puma model. These earlier Rossi 92’s were decent moderately priced guns. But, by the late 80's and through the 90's they were really rough. I suspect the machine were getting worn out so the parts were poorly fitted and rather than hand fit they were terribly over sprung. Rossi’s philosophy was to make the parts slightly too big then rather than hand fit them, just use excessively heavy springs. This saved many man-hours that keeps the prices low. When you picked up one of these guns even before you loaded it you could tell it was very stiff right out of the box. Because of this, these earlier guns Rossi got a bad rep. But, that is also what got me started re-working these guns in the early 90’s. The CAS game was growing big time but the availability of guns for the game was limited.
About 1999 the owner of InterArms passed away. It is my understanding the heirs didn't care to continue with the operation of InterArms so the stock on hand was sold off at a reduced price. (I bought new Rossi 92's at that time for $190). About that same time period, Rossi sold off their gallery gun, the pump 62 and the revolvers to Taurus, so some folks thought there would be no more Rossi 92's available. I can't tell you how many people ask me what I was going to do now.
About this time, around 2000, Rossi completely re-tooled with all new CNC machine. This new machinery has allowed them to make parts better fitted. There are still some that are over sprung but overall the current guns are much nicer than the pre-2000 92’s. About this same time Navy Arms had started importing the Rossi 92's. Then not long after, the ex-employees of InterArms started up Legacy Sports International (LSI) and began importing the Rossi 92 as their Puma. These were the first to have the ugly bolt top safety. LSI was even in the same building as the old InterArms company and were using the Puma name as the model name, too. Then and I don't remember exactly, LSI moved to Reno NV.
During the late 90’s, EMF was importing the Armi San Marco Italian made 92's, (ASM's) and had contracted me to do warranty work on those for them. But ASM's QC was so bad EMF ask me to help them decide how the Rossi 92's should be spec-ed for import as there EMF Hartford 92. From about 2000 to 2006 the EMF imported Rossi 92's did not have the ugly safety. From then until 2009 they did.

In 2009 Taurus acquired Rossi and the 92's and have taken over the distribution under the Braztech name. Both EMF and LSI lost their deal once the Taurus buyout took place. LSI now carries the Armi Sport/Chiappa 92 but it's still called the Puma Model.
The Rossi 92's are still made by Rossi but imported by Braztech a sub of Taurus USA of Florida.
Rossi/Braztech. Bottom line is the post 2000 guns have been pretty nice. Probably because the various importers demanded it. But, since Taurus bought Rossi I have seen some decline in fit and finish. But, they are still better than the late 90's guns.

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:33 pm

Wow! That's quite a history, Nate. Thanks!

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:50 pm

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:LSI now carries the Armi Sport/Chiappa 92 but it's still called the Puma Model.

The obvious follow up question is: How does the Chiappa 92 compare to the Rossi these days?

jazman · Post by **jazman** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:17 pm

Thanks Steve, good knowledge I am glad to know. Jim

DeaconBlues · Post by **DeaconBlues** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:04 pm

I have purchased two Rossi 92's in the last two years. First a blued 357, then a stainless 357. Both operated flawlessly out of the box, however I did buy the Steve's Gunz DIY action kit and use it on both rifles. I also bought the tool kit, which is excellent, and also the safety replacement plugs. I did this before I shot either rifle, but both were perfectly functional before. They were just better afterward.

The fit and finish of the Rossis does not compare to my Winchesters, but the they are still very nice, reasonably priced rifles in my opinion.

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:02 am

Legacy phased out the Chiappas, could not get product in reliably.
Denis

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:07 am

Ah, I'm rather out of date (again).

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:34 am

Mine is the newer Braztech in 45 colt, its fired way over 2000 rounds of cast bullets, from wild to mild
without a jam of any sort, stock has warped some & some day I may try to resolve that
its a ss oct. rifle, so far its a great gun for the money & its slicked its self up but was never bad to start off with, oh I put a receiver sight on it
Thanks for all the info Nate!!

Brad

rossim92 · Post by **rossim92** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:44 am

i bought the rossi 92 in .357 mag with the octagon barrel. Right off the bat it was ammo sensitive as to extraction and lifter timing.. I sent it off to nate for an action job and now feeds and extracts anything I put through it and the action is much, much smoother. .. Now I have a yearning for an 1873 in the 44.40 configuration. I like the looks of the 1873 but the strength of the 1892.

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:52 am

I don't know if she just got lucky or if most of the are just good, but my daughter bought a large loop 16" trapper in .357 a couple years ago when she turned 19. fit and finish might not be up to Winchesters standards in the early day's but it's a heck of a lot better than most gun manufactures in the last 50 years. Trigger is pretty good, wood to metal, better than most, bluing unblemished, wood is pretty nice, defiantly not old walnut but more than acceptable, and more importantly with the exception of the old 148gr. wadcutters( I knew these wouldn't feed but had to try) it's fed every 38spl.-.357 load including my various cast reloads we could find to put in it. I've passed it around to all my lever action friends and they want one two. She bought it for camping, hiking and home protection since she really could care less about handguns. I think she made a great choice.

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:23 pm

FWIW; My Rossi is a 2005 Puma in .44 Magnum. While I don't have anything to compare it to, I was impressed how "crisp" the action was when I got it (not hard, but smooth and "crisp", if that makes any sense). It worked great outta the box but I got Steve's video on how to "slick it up" anyway. I've fired prolly 2,500 rounds through it and once I discovered the barrel liked .433" bullets it's leading free (99.5% of all the rounds fired were with cast bullets and it's favorite is Ranch Dog's 265 gr. RNFP). I got nuttin' to complain about!

Model 52B · Post by **Model 52B** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:13 pm

KWK wrote:
Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:LSI now carries the Armi Sport/Chiappa 92 but it's still called the Puma Model.
The obvious follow up question is: How does the Chiappa 92 compare to the Rossi these days?

I bought a new old stock Charles Daly marked Armi Sport/Chiappa Model 92 Takedown rifle in .45 Colt a few years ago and it was very nicely sprung and very well fitted. It was butter smooth and easy to run right out of the box - about where I can get my Rossi 92s after adding Nates ejector spring and going through the action polishing the contact surfaces, detents and lightening the springs.

Mine is very nicely color care hardened and the walnut is nicely finished.

In general the whole rifle follows the Winchester pattern much more closely. At some point I'm going to do a point by point comparison and see if they actually modeled a Winchester 1892 from a specific time period down to the subtle details.

The negatives of the Armi Sport Chiappa rifles are:

1) they cost about twice as much as a Rossi 92;

2) quality of the fit and finish depends on the specifications requested by the importer - you get what you pay for; and

3) my Rossi 92s all shoot better in terms of accuracy than my Armi Sport 92, although that might be a function of the take down design.

While the Armi Sport is a much more faithful clone of the original Winchester pattern, that's arguably not all good. Rossi has after all been making modern Model 92s in .357 Mag, .44 Mag and .45 Colt a lot longer than anyone else, and they've go the design pretty well dialed in.

----

In comparison, the Rossi 92 needs some finish work as Rossi seems to stop a bit short when it comes to the final hand fitting - but then again that helps keep the cost down. They can be finished into excellent carbines and rifles if you're willing to put in a little work.

While the stock finish seems to have improved a bit the last year or so for the few years prior to that it had all the charm and appearance of shoe polish, and it would run in the rain. Not great stuff.

The good news is that the old finish and the current finish both make a good stain and base for a Tru-oil or Tung Oil finish applied directly on top of the original finish. It will take the initial couple coats a full 24 hours to dry (so don't panic), as it apparently integrates with the underlying finish, but the rest of the coats dry down in the normal 90 minutes and 5-6 coats will fill the grain nicely. I then knock it back a bit with some lightly applied 0000 steel wool to produce a satin or semi-gloss finish and then after a few days buff it out with a rubbing compound. The end result is quite nice and the wood Rossi uses does a fair job of matching the plain, straight grained walnut and gum wood that Big W was known for using on it's standard rifles and carbines.

The Rossi 92 has good exterior metal finish with decent polish and bluing, although if you hold it right in the light you'll see some waviness in the larger flats that you won't see on the Armi Sport made rifles. To get the nice deep blue to look it's best you have to first clean all the preservative off it. The internal metal work is ok, but you need to take it apart and clean out all the metal chips and debris that Rossi leaves in the action, or at a minus remove the butt stock and spray it all out thoroughly with an aerosol gun cleaner and then a gun oil, and let it drip dry in a pan over night before putting the stock back on. A good cleaning and a few hundred rounds through it will have it working much better than it does out of the box. However, if you slick it up per Steve's DVD, replace the ejector spring and the magazine follower, you'll get a much smoother action and get it right off the bat.

Quality control can still be a bit hit or miss, so you want to inspect any Rossi pretty closely for obvious defects, but despite the occasional lemon that won't feed right, etc, the odds are still very good that you'll have a nice operating rifle or carbine.

----

As for Rossi, Braztech, Taurus and Interarms, Samuel Cummings died in 1998 and his daughter ended up in jail about a year later. I'm not sure whether it was a case of her not wanting to continue operating the business or the government preferring it close it's doors. If you read up on the early history of Cummings and Interarms you'll get a feel for what I mean and why the Govt might have wanted the company to die with him.

In any case Rossi created "Braztech" as the North American importer for Rossi firearms about 4 months before Sam Cummings died, so Interarms was already on it's way out as the major Rossi importer for North America.

More recently, around 2008 or 2009, Rossi and Taurus entered a manufacturing agreement where Taurus purchased the rights to four .38 Special and three .357 Magnum models of Rossi handguns. Taurus continues to make them under contract in Brazil on Rossi tooling in their own plant. In turn, Taurus also makes the handguns that Braztech sells in North American under the Rossi name. Otherwise the rest of the Rossi lineup is still made by and the company is still controlled by Rossi. In other words, Taurus isn't making the 92, Rossi still makes them and the sag in quality assurance belongs to Rossi, although the confusion is understandable as if you ask any gun shop in the country which company's firearms have the most issues from the factory, they'll all tell you "Taurus" with no need to even think about it.

As Steve indicated, around 2008, LSI stopped sourcing it's Model 92 "Puma" from Rossi and started getting them from Armi Sport/Chiappa. At one point I knew the reason why they made the switch, but I've quite frankly forgotten. As noted above the Armi Sport 92s follow the original Browning/Winchester pattern much more closely, but cost more.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:41 pm

I've either owned or had relatives (who use me as their 'gunsmith') own, about 15 Rossi lever guns, and only one has ever given a problem. I sent it back for re-barreling (it was a 454 Casull that kept rupturing cases and the chamber was oversize I believe), and they rebarreled it and had it back to me within a couple weeks. It's functioned fine since then.

They are NOT the glamorous type of rifle, nor the 'splendid, hand-fitted examples of craftsmanship' some of us yearn for and see in early-20th-century Winchesters and Marlins, but they ARE very decent, functional, practical, and FUN lever guns that everyone can afford. Let the 'collectors' and true aficionados buy up all the older Winchesters and Marlins, and many of the newbies who cut their teeth on the coarser Rossi leverguns learn the enjoyment they can bring, THEN they will probably 'graduate' to the higher-grade new production ones, or buy more of the quality used ones.

No shame in liking the Rossi lever guns...!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:21 pm

AJMD429 wrote:I've either owned or had relatives (who use me as their 'gunsmith') own, about 15 Rossi lever guns, and only one has ever given a problem. I sent it back for re-barreling (it was a 454 Casull that kept rupturing cases and the chamber was oversize I believe), and they rebarreled it and had it back to me within a couple weeks. It's functioned fine since then.

They are NOT the glamorous type of rifle, nor the 'splendid, hand-fitted examples of craftsmanship' some of us yearn for and see in early-20th-century Winchesters and Marlins, but they ARE very decent, functional, practical, and FUN lever guns that everyone can afford. Let the 'collectors' and true aficionados buy up all the older Winchesters and Marlins, and many of the newbies who cut their teeth on the coarser Rossi leverguns learn the enjoyment they can bring, THEN they will probably 'graduate' to the higher-grade new production ones, or buy more of the quality used ones.

No shame in liking the Rossi lever guns...!

I just was remembering the gritty, poor quality of the ones from the 70/80s and wondered if they had gotten better.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:58 am

I've owned and sold three, all in .357Mag, all were good shooters, I had no issues with any of them...I sold all three to pick up a couple of older Marlins, one recently in .357Mag, but am thinking about getting another Rossi-92... :)

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:36 am

Model 52B wrote:
KWK wrote:
Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:LSI now carries the Armi Sport/Chiappa 92 but it's still called the Puma Model.
The obvious follow up question is: How does the Chiappa 92 compare to the Rossi these days?
I bought a new old stock Charles Daly marked Armi Sport/Chiappa Model 92 Takedown rifle in .45 Colt a few years ago and it was very nicely sprung and very well fitted. It was butter smooth and easy to run right out of the box - about where I can get my Rossi 92s after adding Nates ejector spring and going through the action polishing the contact surfaces, detents and lightening the springs.

Mine is very nicely color care hardened and the walnut is nicely finished.

In general the whole rifle follows the Winchester pattern much more closely. At some point I'm going to do a point by point comparison and see if they actually modeled a Winchester 1892 from a specific time period down to the subtle details.

The negatives of the Armi Sport Chiappa rifles are:

1) they cost about twice as much as a Rossi 92;

2) quality of the fit and finish depends on the specifications requested by the importer - you get what you pay for; and

3) my Rossi 92s all shoot better in terms of accuracy than my Armi Sport 92, although that might be a function of the take down design.

While the Armi Sport is a much more faithful clone of the original Winchester pattern, that's arguably not all good. Rossi has after all been making modern Model 92s in .357 Mag, .44 Mag and .45 Colt a lot longer than anyone else, and they've go the design pretty well dialed in.

----

In comparison, the Rossi 92 needs some finish work as Rossi seems to stop a bit short when it comes to the final hand fitting - but then again that helps keep the cost down. They can be finished into excellent carbines and rifles if you're willing to put in a little work.

While the stock finish seems to have improved a bit the last year or so for the few years prior to that it had all the charm and appearance of shoe polish, and it would run in the rain. Not great stuff.

The good news is that the old finish and the current finish both make a good stain and base for a Tru-oil or Tung Oil finish applied directly on top of the original finish. It will take the initial couple coats a full 24 hours to dry (so don't panic), as it apparently integrates with the underlying finish, but the rest of the coats dry down in the normal 90 minutes and 5-6 coats will fill the grain nicely. I then knock it back a bit with some lightly applied 0000 steel wool to produce a satin or semi-gloss finish and then after a few days buff it out with a rubbing compound. The end result is quite nice and the wood Rossi uses does a fair job of matching the plain, straight grained walnut and gum wood that Big W was known for using on it's standard rifles and carbines.

The Rossi 92 has good exterior metal finish with decent polish and bluing, although if you hold it right in the light you'll see some waviness in the larger flats that you won't see on the Armi Sport made rifles. To get the nice deep blue to look it's best you have to first clean all the preservative off it. The internal metal work is ok, but you need to take it apart and clean out all the metal chips and debris that Rossi leaves in the action, or at a minus remove the butt stock and spray it all out thoroughly with an aerosol gun cleaner and then a gun oil, and let it drip dry in a pan over night before putting the stock back on. A good cleaning and a few hundred rounds through it will have it working much better than it does out of the box. However, if you slick it up per Steve's DVD, replace the ejector spring and the magazine follower, you'll get a much smoother action and get it right off the bat.

Quality control can still be a bit hit or miss, so you want to inspect any Rossi pretty closely for obvious defects, but despite the occasional lemon that won't feed right, etc, the odds are still very good that you'll have a nice operating rifle or carbine.

----

As for Rossi, Braztech, Taurus and Interarms, Samuel Cummings died in 1998 and his daughter ended up in jail about a year later. I'm not sure whether it was a case of her not wanting to continue operating the business or the government preferring it close it's doors. If you read up on the early history of Cummings and Interarms you'll get a feel for what I mean and why the Govt might have wanted the company to die with him.

In any case Rossi created "Braztech" as the North American importer for Rossi firearms about 4 months before Sam Cummings died, so Interarms was already on it's way out as the major Rossi importer for North America.

More recently, around 2008 or 2009, Rossi and Taurus entered a manufacturing agreement where Taurus purchased the rights to four .38 Special and three .357 Magnum models of Rossi handguns. Taurus continues to make them under contract in Brazil on Rossi tooling in their own plant. In turn, Taurus also makes the handguns that Braztech sells in North American under the Rossi name. Otherwise the rest of the Rossi lineup is still made by and the company is still controlled by Rossi. In other words, Taurus isn't making the 92, Rossi still makes them and the sag in quality assurance belongs to Rossi, although the confusion is understandable as if you ask any gun shop in the country which company's firearms have the most issues from the factory, they'll all tell you "Taurus" with no need to even think about it.

As Steve indicated, around 2008, LSI stopped sourcing it's Model 92 "Puma" from Rossi and started getting them from Armi Sport/Chiappa. At one point I knew the reason why they made the switch, but I've quite frankly forgotten. As noted above the Armi Sport 92s follow the original Browning/Winchester pattern much more closely, but cost more.

Nice. Thank you!

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:17 am

Steve, also want to thank you for sharing that complicated history. I had two of those 90s Rossis in .44 WCF. Had to send the first one back because the barrel was unrifled. Second one was nicely accurate.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:20 am

because the barrel was unrifled

Ugh...not cool..not groovy at all.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:42 pm

Purchased a 454 in 2010.

Fit and finish was lousy, most notably with the completely mismatched wood. Wouldn't cycle 45lc without ramming the nose of the cartridge into the upper lip of the chamber. Cycling 454 required a very stiff yank or you weren't guaranteed to lift the cartridge. Presumably most of these problems could be worked out or tuned, the wood re-stained to uniformity, etc, but the gun was a project straight out of the box. Sold it off to somebody who doesn't mind one.

Won't buy another Rossi lever sight unseen again, which is about the only way you can get the 454 as I've never seen it offered in a LGS.

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:00 pm

I don't think that you can be beat the Rossi 9 2 for the $. Love mine, not the most beautiful wood, but , its a 3rd less than the high end ones. And mines a hunting, shooting arm, not a safe queen or wall hanger.

Daisyman · Post by **Daisyman** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:12 pm

I love my Navy Arms Rossi. I don't know if someone worked on it before I got it, but it is butter smooth and shoots really nice, never misses a round. Mine is case colored in .45LC. with a 24" octagon bbl and walnut stocks, and the fit and finish is really good.

I added a couple coats of stock finish because the wood looked a little dry, and it really turned out nice.

My thanks also for the history on Rossi. Very interesting! How did you keep all that straight?

Irv

Carlsen Highway · Post by **Carlsen Highway** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:21 am

I am onto my third Rossi, two carbines and a octagonal rifle. (Actually four - my old man started me on his one back in the 1980's, had the puma head on the side, and a saddle ring. THat was the start of it.)

I dont know what grade of Rossi we get here in Australasia, and we have never even heard of Interarms, Charles Daly or Braztech (nor do I understand why you guys talk like they made them - they are all made in a factory in Brazil, right?) but the ones I have had have all been perfectly fine, function and finish-wise. The latest actually has finely figured wood too, and the rifle with modestly figured actual walnut. All work perfectly, are smooth as I got them, and have excellent triggers.

I cannot complain at all about Rossi lever actions. I know this is heresy, but to be honest with you, I have had four Winchester 94 carbines in .30/30, (the fourth only briefly, took it back the next day) including a 1952 Pre'64, and though wont want to hear it, the Rossi's have given me less trouble, have been better put together overall, and functioned just as well. Part of it will be the '92 design, and part of it is the rattly loose levers, the barrels screwed on crooked and other mistakes made at New Haven. I won't buy a Winchester 94 sight-unseen anymore, even if the guy sounds like he knows what hes talking about.
(I would take them over any loosey-goosey, screw-backing-out-lever-going-too-far-forward Marlin too...

)

The ones I have had have all been in .44-40, and have been blued.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:27 am

Bill in Oregon wrote:Had to send the first one back because the barrel was unrifled.

Could have made a nice shot-shell shooter I guess...!

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:27 am

Panzercat wrote:Purchased a 454 in 2010.

Fit and finish was lousy, most notably with the completely mismatched wood. Wouldn't cycle 45lc without ramming the nose of the cartridge into the upper lip of the chamber. Cycling 454 required a very stiff yank or you weren't guaranteed to lift the cartridge. Presumably most of these problems could be worked out or tuned, the wood re-stained to uniformity, etc, but the gun was a project straight out of the box. Sold it off to somebody who doesn't mind one.

Won't buy another Rossi lever sight unseen again, which is about the only way you can get the 454 as I've never seen it offered in a LGS.

I purchased a Puma in 480 around 2007 or so . Had a dealer friend order it for me . It got there , I looked at it , paid him and took it home . Once home I played with it a bit wiped it off and put it in the safe . A year or so later I sold it to someone for enough to get my money back and it was still unfired . The gun may or may not have functioned and or shot well . The exterior turned me off from the first moment I saw it .

So to the best of my knowledge I've never fired one and to be honest have no intentions in the future . Again they may function fine and be accurate they are just not for me .

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:41 am

Nate, thanks for the history. Succinct and chock full of fact. But...

Here's as current a Rossi as I own. Circa 2004 Rossi "Short Rifle" imported by EMF.

.45 Colt slicked up by "me", for my son to use as a cowboy gun.

I have two others, both .38 carbines. If someone could engineer a short stroke mod for the Rossi, it'd probably bring back a resurgence of the 1892's near domination of the sport of cowboy shootin'. When I started this game, the Rossi far outnumbered the Uberti '66 & '73 clones, and was favored pretty evenly with the Marlin 1894, because once you got your 1892 tuned for your ammo, even the shorter stroked Marlin couldn't keep up... 'cause it WAS going to jam.

Carlsen Highway · Post by **Carlsen Highway** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:58 pm

Here's my latest .44-40.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:14 pm

Carlsen,

That wood looks great!

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:22 am

Carlsen Highway wrote:Here's my latest .44-40.

that is a fine looking shooter!

Model 52B · Post by **Model 52B** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:16 am

Griff wrote:If someone could engineer a short stroke mod for the Rossi, it'd probably bring back a resurgence of the 1892's near domination of the sport of cowboy shootin'. When I started this game, the Rossi far outnumbered the Uberti '66 & '73 clones, and was favored pretty evenly with the Marlin 1894, because once you got your 1892 tuned for your ammo, even the shorter stroked Marlin couldn't keep up... 'cause it WAS going to jam.

With a power factor of only 60 and high and low velocity limits of 400 and 1400 fps for rifles/carbines it isn't likely to happen.

The toggle link action in the '73 isn't all that strong, but it's fast and smooth. Unless you incentivize using more powerful rounds, there's no up side to using the '92.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:13 am

Model 52B wrote:
Griff wrote:If someone could engineer a short stroke mod for the Rossi, it'd probably bring back a resurgence of the 1892's near domination of the sport of cowboy shootin'. When I started this game, the Rossi far outnumbered the Uberti '66 & '73 clones, and was favored pretty evenly with the Marlin 1894, because once you got your 1892 tuned for your ammo, even the shorter stroked Marlin couldn't keep up... 'cause it WAS going to jam.
With a power factor of only 60 and high and low velocity limits of 400 and 1400 fps for rifles/carbines it isn't likely to happen.

The toggle link action in the '73 isn't all that strong, but it's fast and smooth. Unless you incentivize using more powerful rounds, there's no up side to using the '92.

Oh yes... the size of the action and overall length in all barrel lengths is shorter... making it a much handier rifle... one of it's many selling points back in the day!

If I had a junker that I could make a "cutaway" from, I think could figure out a way to reconfigure the lever & bolt so they attached further back, might involve changing the pivot point... but what fun... take a top shooter, hand him a '92 that'd run faster than his fastest '73... almost as much as seeing shooters handling the new short stroke kits installed in the Ruger Vaquero!!!

Maybe I will see the game devolve into one that requires tech inspections to see if you've moved from a traditionally engineered firearms into the realm of an "open class", highly modified, re-engineered firearms. What they really wanted to avoid back in the day... but the can was already opened and the worms out and about before they ever developed any REAL hard guidelines. 'Cause from the git-go, lightened springs & re-designed mechanisms to allow coil springs vs. factory flat springs were necessary to win.

All the rules that've been instituted is nothing more than a delaying action, because free thinkers were already hard at working re-designing the guns to operate smoother, faster and with better reliability while maintaining that "stock" outside appearance.

Model 52B · Post by **Model 52B** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:22 pm

I agree with you on the benefits of a shorter, handier action. I'm not a SASS shooter or a real fan of the 1873 for field purposes, however for short range (150 yards or less) hunts in the woods I prefer one of my Model 92s in .357 Mag or .45 Colt to one of my Model 94s in .30-30 or .375 Win, due to the shorter (about one and a quarter inches) receiver and the much smoother running action.

I also agree with you that SASS has never really been and certainly hasn't evolved into something that is all that traditional in terms of practical firearms and ammunition. The power factor of 60 and minimum velocity of 400 fps is ridiculous, as I can't imagine anyone in the old west wanting a revolver in .38-40, .44-40, .45 Colt, .45 Schofield, etc, that launched a 180-255 grain bullet at only 400 fps. When you contrast the allowable mods on firearms to things like prohibitions on rubber soled versus leather soled cowboy boots, it's obvious the focus is more on appearance than substance.

That's pretty much why I stayed in national match and practical pistol shooting, although the practical pistol world has had some similar issues in terms of stock pistols and revolvers versus race guns. Similarly, national match shooting over the years has drawn further and further away from anything remotely related to a service rifle in anything other than external form, given the allowance of heavy barrels, stock weights, etc.

Of course I can also recall when NASCAR actually used actual cars based on production models rather than tube and frame cars covered with sheet metal conforming to an approved silhouette. I liked that better as well.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:03 pm

Model 52B wrote:I agree with you on the benefits of a shorter, handier action. I'm not a SASS shooter or a real fan of the 1873 for field purposes, however for short range (150 yards or less) hunts in the woods I prefer one of my Model 92s in .357 Mag or .45 Colt to one of my Model 94s in .30-30 or .375 Win, due to the shorter (about one and a quarter inches) receiver and the much smoother running action.

I also agree with you that SASS has never really been and certainly hasn't evolved into something that is all that traditional in terms of practical firearms and ammunition. The power factor of 60 and minimum velocity of 400 fps is ridiculous, as I can't imagine anyone in the old west wanting a revolver in .38-40, .44-40, .45 Colt, .45 Schofield, etc, that launched a 180-255 grain bullet at only 400 fps. When you contrast the allowable mods on firearms to things like prohibitions on rubber soled versus leather soled cowboy boots, it's obvious the focus is more on appearance than substance.

That's pretty much why I stayed in national match and practical pistol shooting, although the practical pistol world has had some similar issues in terms of stock pistols and revolvers versus race guns. Similarly, national match shooting over the years has drawn further and further away from anything remotely related to a service rifle in anything other than external form, given the allowance of heavy barrels, stock weights, etc.

Of course I can also recall when NASCAR actually used actual cars based on production models rather than tube and frame cars covered with sheet metal conforming to an approved silhouette. I liked that better as well.

Yep, most sports have left us ol' pharts behind! Even those in the winner's circle at SASS events will tell you that a floor of about 700 fps is better for pistols. Rubber soled boots/mocassins or broghams are allowed, just not "Vibram" soles... Doesn't NASCAR mean "not any stock cars a round"?

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:38 pm

My favorite Lever in the Safe is my Rossi 92/44 mag 2006 model. If I were limited to only one Rifle it would be the 92/44 Rossi. This barrel slugs at .429", and is a tack driver at 100 yards. With a 240 gr. Nosler JHP, and Winchester 296 powder, this is a very deadly combination.

The barrel sight was replaced with a folding leaf, and a Marbles tang rides on the wrist tang. Barrel sight is adjusted for 75 yards, The marbles is zeroed for 2" high at 100 yards.

If I see a Rossi at a good price I will buy it with out question, old stock or new.
Paid $ 250.00 for my Rossi at a Local Gun Store in 2008.

kaschi · Post by **kaschi** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:46 pm

I've got one of their stainless steel SRCs in 44-40 and so far so good. It's from the early 2000s and doesn't have the bolt safety. The gun is beautiful and all it needs is one of Nate's metal mag followers!

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:27 am

You will appreciate Nate's metal followers. I bought one and pitched that yellow plastic thing.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:26 pm

Much as I hate to say it, I like the bright plastic followers. Every time I glimpsed the metal one in my friend's Winchester, I suddenly became paranoid there was another shell hanging out down there.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:34 pm

Panzercat wrote:Much as I hate to say it, I like the bright plastic followers. Every time I glimpsed the metal one in my friend's Winchester, I suddenly became paranoid there was another shell hanging out down there.

Much as I hate to say it, I finally had a plastic follower break. A few months back the follower in my 870 broke! Never even knew it was plastic! I won it in a raffle in 1972! I figured it was outta warranty, so I just bought a new... metal one!

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:15 am

They go bad in the Marlins too.
The skirt on this one was warped

The front of this one wore off.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:27 am

Im pretty sure I wasn't trying to defend their permanence :p

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:12 pm

Panzercat wrote:Im pretty sure I wasn't trying to defend their permanence :p

Ok, so why not have the best of both. Paint the metal follower the color of choice. Rather than worrying that your functioning lever action repeater suddenly becomes a single shot.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:45 pm

A distinct possibility when I buy a new lever.
Finally sold one of those Mini14s, so I've got an open slot in my schedule for one

Model 52B · Post by **Model 52B** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:42 pm

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:
Panzercat wrote:Im pretty sure I wasn't trying to defend their permanence :p
Ok, so why not have the best of both. Paint the metal follower the color of choice. Rather than worrying that your functioning lever action repeater suddenly becomes a single shot.

Maybe someone will do a run of powder coated mag followers in a bright color, like red, or orange or even pink, for men manly enough to have a pink follower.

gak · Post by **gak** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:53 pm

Although this may run counter to some of the statements, front barrel band-mounted post sight aside, early Rossis cosmetically were more faithful to the original 92, especially as regards contours; later ones genericized the receiver curve so there is less of a "step" to the bottom line where the earlier ones were better defined (still not exact as the Wins but closer). Not sure when Rossi made the change, perhaps with the sell-off of Interarms and retooling, as all my dozen or so over the years are the Interarms-era pre-safeties (all ca 1980s), save for a pair of just barely pre safety 2006 EMFs which have the later receiver bottom lines.

The early ones also generally had nicer forend "noses," a little longer and actually radiused vs the abruptly terminated recent decades' wood, closer to the originals. Some early examples--before the late 90s fugly black mystery stain mentioned below--even had nicer wood/finish. Somewhere in the pre-retooling mid to late 90s period Steve (Nate) mentions, an unfortunate period when seemingly Rossi was really cranking them out to meet CAS demand, they made them with an odd near-black finish which was less than stellar and some examples actually rubbed off on heavy or wet use.

So IMO, except perhaps the regrettable "black wood" period, the earlier Interarms Rossis were better in some respects, IMO, than many issued in the LSI (Legacy) period and especially Braztech/Taurus-on.. More modern Rossis may be nicer functionally out of the box but the early ones--some fine from the start, others not as much--slick up nicely with dry levering or regular use or with a little "encouragement" courtesy Steve Young.