Gas Check Alternatives

[johnler]

Quite a while ago I found an article "by Paco" entitled "Small Charges in Standard Cartridge Cases: Cast". In it I found "A Paco Secret" that said a small disk of bullet size, thin polypropylene glued to the base stopped fouling. Since the technique said to tap the base on a sponge with a little glue on it I have been left wondering "What kind of glue was it?" The only thing that I get out of that is that it is most likely a water-based glue and the only common one I think of is white glue. That does not seem like a good answer since white glue doesn't stick very well to polypropylene. Maybe that's okay since it is not going to be subjected to any serious stress or strain that would detach it. Perhaps TOO MUCH caution is my problem because I have not been able to convince myself to try it without a little more information. Has anyone got an idea about the glue that was used or one that would work? Am I correct in assuming that it is not going to be subjected to any particular events that would dislodge it? Has anyone else tried it? (I have not seen it mentioned elsewhere.) I got some pretty severe leading in trying to find a suitable reduced load for a 135gr plain base Badman bullet in a 30-30 (Marlin 336 regular and micro-grooved) or 300 Savage (Savage Model 1899). It took a great deal of work to get the lead out of the barrels (I am not sure that I was successful in getting it all out in spite of spending over four hours cleaning each gun.) That left me using copper gas checks that I do not load with any real success.

[Griff]

I've used both Poly & a waxed card (cut from paper milk cartons) as wads in my BP loads, without any glue or attempt to affix them to the base of the bullet other than seating pressure. I haven't found any of the poly wads after they were fired, but I haven't looked overhard, either. And, I've only shot a few of them. The card wads I've use for years, but have quit using them for my 45Colt cowboy action rounds... just didn't see any improvement over the cardless rounds, in either accuracy or fouling control.

When I first started using them for BPCR, I searched them out and examined them. When seated so that the card was still in the neck of the .40-90BN, they only exhibited a little soot staining on one side.

All the bullets I've used are hard cast plain base. Of the few bullets I've been able to recover, the bases are clean, with no evidence of gas-cutting or other deformation. Draw your own conclusions! But I don't load the .40-90BN w/o them.

[Malamute]

Have you tried different sizing diameters and/or bullet lube?

[johnler]

The sizing of the bullets seemed to be about right. The drive bands ranged from 0.309 to 0.310+in. None of the nose got to 0.300in. The Model 1899 slugged at 0.3000in and 0.3080in. The Marlins about 0.3095in. When I got leading without sizing I sized to make them more uniform, 0.309 for the Mod 1899 and 0.310 for the Marlins. Didn't seem to make much difference. I had tried an earlier Paco recommendation to make the Marlin a varmint gun with the Hornady 100gr half-jacket. It worked pretty well. I didn't check but the article had claimed about 3000fps for the load. I was looking for lead bullets to give me something in the 1200-1500fps range for plinking and to take care of small critters. I might try a gallery load. The bullets came lubed and I added a coat of Alox. Haven't tried changing that.

[earlmck]

If you are getting serious leading with that bullet at 1200 to 1500 fps levels there is something badly wrong with the alloy those babies are made of. You might shoot them up with some galery loads, just to get rid of them. Buy a better brand bullet next time and I'll bet you are OK. My plain-base bullets cast from plain old wheelweight metal wouldn't lead at the 1500 fps level but wouldn't shoot all that well. I'd expect accuracy down in the 1200 to 1300 fps level.

I once got a batch of bullets from a maker I'd been using for years. The bullets leaded terribly and I learned later that the business had been sold. I'm guessing the new owner was trying a cheaper alloy and it didn't work.

[flatnose]

Try cream of wheat on top of the powder charge. Adjust load accordingly. The wheat powder will make a seal around the bullet base and stop gas cutting. It works best when the case is nearly full.

[johnler]

Any recommendations for the most likely to be suitable powders?

[Ben_Rumson]

I think your assumption that the glue to be used is a white glue is correct. The glue is meant to keep the disc stuck on the base to protect it from flame cutting but meant to fall off once the bullet leaves the bore… The advantage to the disc dropping off is that it cannot contribute to degradation of accuracy in any way if it’s not on the bullet. Also when assembling the cartridge a glued disc insures the disc stays where you want it in the case. No need to worry about neck tension separating the disc from the bullet. Gas pressure is doing the work of keeping it against the bullet base. The pressure will also squeeze the disc out to groove diameter, the drag from that insures that it separates.

[johnler]

Ben_Rumson: Thank you for info. I will try the poly disk as soon as I can locate something to cut the proper size disk.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Almost any kind of wad/card behind the bullet will help prevent leading. I often use wads punched from an old cowboy hat and dipped in bullet lube to prevent leading from soft bullets. Accuracy is increased about 99% of the time.

[Griff]

Badman makes a pretty good bullet, try some @ .311 & run a max speed of ~1400fps. IME the glue isn't needed as long as it's not pushed down past the neck.

[Ben_Rumson]

[quote I often use wads punched from an old cowboy hat and dipped in bullet lube to prevent leading from soft bullets.][/quote]

Excellent use of cowboy hats!

[Griff]

I often use wads punched from an old cowboy hat and dipped in bullet lube to prevent leading from soft bullets.]

Excellent use of cowboy hats!

My dermatologist would beg to differ. He thinks the "ball" cap is the worst invention in the history of mankind!

[Ben_Rumson]

My dermatologist would beg to differ. He thinks the "ball" cap is the worst invention in the history of mankind!

Unless he needed felt wads

[Chuck 100 yd]

I watch for ratty old cowboy hats at garage sales and flea markets. I found a beaver hat once for .50 cents. If it don't fit me it gets made into wads.

[Griff]

My dermatologist would beg to differ. He thinks the "ball" cap is the worst invention in the history of mankind!

Unless he needed felt wads

[mikld]

Several years ago, when I started working on cast bullets in my .44 Magnums, and Pre-Castboolits.com, I found a product that eliminated most the leading. I don't remember the name but it came in sheets and was a hard, red colored wax sheets, approx. 3/16" thick. After charging the case this sheet was placed over the case mouth and pressed down, cutting and installing a wax wad. Then the bullet was seated on top of the wad. It worked fairly well, but when I discovered bullet to gun fit, I no longer needed it. I duplicated the wax wad material with carnauba wax and a touch of bees wax. It also worked...