How is the front site mounted on 1892 SRC?

[FatJackDurham]

Hi all, I have a question about the site on the front of the saddle ring carbine, as well as on the Springfield trapdoor.

The site is a square block somehow mounted directly onto the barrel with a site blade held in it with a cross pin.

How is the actual block mounted on the barrel? Is it silver soldered? (bluing considerations) or is it welded on? (warpage considerations?) or is it some other way?

Thanks.

[Pete44ru]

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AFAIK, the Model 92 sight base is welded to the barrel.

I have no experience with the Springfield.


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[Malamute]

I believe they were done a couple ways. Some were silver brazed (soldered) on, some were set in a small dovetail, peened into place then silver brazed in place (and in NO way shape or form to be considered removable like a normal dovetail, it makes them nearly as permanent as being machined from the barrel metal), and some were made from the same piece of metal as the barrel and machined as the barrel was shaped. Many of the early ramps were so done.

[FatJackDurham]

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AFAIK, the Model 92 sight base is welded to the barrel.

I have no experience with the Springfield.


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This makes me wonder all kinds of things. You can turn the barrel after its attached, so it would have had to have been done after the barrel was initially shaped. It probably was done before rifling, though, I would think because any serious heat to weld that on would deform the inside of the tube.

[FatJackDurham]

I believe they were done a couple ways. Some were silver brazed (soldered) on, some were set in a small dovetail, peened into place then silver brazed in place (and in NO way shape or form to be considered removable like a normal dovetail, it makes them nearly as permanent as being machined from the barrel metal), and some were made from the same piece of metal as the barrel and machined as the barrel was shaped. Many of the early ramps were so done.

I can see machining it on an octagon barrel, but I haven't see a permanent sight on an octagon barrel. I can see machining it on a round barrel as it would be a ridiculous amount of effort to perfectly shape the barrel around it.

I wondered if it was staked in like a 1911 front sight, but I would think that would seriously affect the accuracy unless the bore was machined and rifled after the fact.

If it's silver soldered, it seems to be extremely precise such that the solder is not visible.

Maybe I'll try to buy an old rifle barrel and bandsaw across the site to see what it looks like on the inside....

This happens to me a lot. Since I have started doing metal work in small ways, I look at things and say, "I wonder how they did that?"

[gregg]

could be brazed . as you know you can scale the inside barrel if you get it to hot. Have read put a tight wooden dowel in bore will stop that. might smoke but keeps air from the steel so it does not oxidize bore???????? so I read?
Someone will come along here with real deal.. Like post what I think I know then big dogs straiten my rear gear out.

[Chuck 100 yd]

There are many antiscaling compounds available and have been forever. They prevent oxygen from contacting the hot metal and forming scale. If the sight base is precisely fitted to the barrel,the solder line will not be visible after the excess solder is removed. Gunsmiths do this all the time.

[Sixgun]

According to my sources, all were silver soldered on the SRC. The early carbines had the front post integral to the base while the later ones......after serial #250K.....had a removable blade such as this carbine I shoot regularly.-----6

[1886 45-90]

Mine is silver soldered on, and the blade and base are one piece. It's an unfortunate setup, since the sights from the factory are pretty much invisible.

[Pete44ru]

Mine is silver soldered on, and the blade and base are one piece.

It's an unfortunate setup, since the sights from the factory are pretty much invisible.

Why I sold my Browning B-92 - D/T'n for a receiver sight would have been simple enough, but I didn't want to get into altering the front sight setup.

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[Sixgun]

Pete,
You sure the sight on your Browning was one piece? I thought they had a removable blade like the one I pictured. In that case it ain't nothin' to drive out the pin and add the blade of your choice.---6

[Mike Hunter]

First, are we discussing an original Winchester model 1892 or a copy?

On the originals made between 1892 and 1937 or so, they were installed in one of two ways: The early rifles up until about 1916 they were dovetailed in place with a very shallow dovetail (.050), silver brazed and final machined/polished. After around 1916 Winchester made them integral with the barrel; barrel and sight base are one piece.

If it’s a copy, ie.. Browning, EMF etc. I don’t have a clue without looking, but more than likely silver soldered in place.

[FatJackDurham]

First, are we discussing an original Winchester model 1892 or a copy?

On the originals made between 1892 and 1937 or so, they were installed in one of two ways: The early rifles up until about 1916 they were dovetailed in place with a very shallow dovetail (.050), silver brazed and final machined/polished. After around 1916 Winchester made them integral with the barrel; barrel and sight base are one piece.

If it’s a copy, ie.. Browning, EMF etc. I don’t have a clue without looking, but more than likely silver soldered in place.

Original around 1910.

But my Trapdoor is made in 1889. I am guessing they were welded on before the bore was cut....

[gregg]

First, are we discussing an original Winchester model 1892 or a copy?

On the originals made between 1892 and 1937 or so, they were installed in one of two ways: The early rifles up until about 1916 they were dovetailed in place with a very shallow dovetail (.050), silver brazed and final machined/polished. After around 1916 Winchester made them integral with the barrel; barrel and sight base are one piece.

If it’s a copy, ie.. Browning, EMF etc. I don’t have a clue without looking, but more than likely silver soldered in place.

Original around 1910.

But my Trapdoor is made in 1889. I am guessing they were welded on before the bore was cut...

have read Springfield armory brazed barrel liners in but you all got me thinking maybe its really silver brazed because of temps you would be dealing with.
I have a gun smiting book that shows to tin barrel and sight with sliver solder. clamp together reheat till they flow together. At that time you have to tighten clamp as solder runs together. Brownells has a spring loaded clamp to help with this. Or suffer like rest of us with what we can throw together. brownells has what looks like soap stone you mark on iron when your going to cut it with a torch. Well Brownells has a flat stick like that you rub on the steel so the sliver solder will not stick to the steel. That would help with clean up. I'm sure they have paste you put on steel keep air out of the inside barrel spot your heating so it will not scale

[FatJackDurham]

I think in this close up I can see a little of the brazing on the site.

[spaghetti]

The front sight block is brazed on the 1873 trapdoor Springfield with the sight blade pinned to the block.

[FatJackDurham]

Okay, brazing makes more sense than either silver soldering, which would come undone during bluing, or welding, which would distort the barrel.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Okay, brazing makes more sense than either silver soldering, which would come undone during bluing, or welding, which would distort the barrel.

They were high temp silver soldered. Which isn't affected by bluing. Unlike soft solder like most of the SXS shotguns. Soft solder doesn't take to hot blue

[FatJackDurham]

Okay, brazing makes more sense than either silver soldering, which would come undone during bluing, or welding, which would distort the barrel.

They were high temp silver soldered. Which isn't affected by bluing. Unlike soft solder like most of the SXS shotguns. Soft solder doesn't take to hot blue

Good to know. I was unaware there were different kinds of solder.

[Mike Hunter]

Generally High Temp silver solder and Silver braze are the same thing. Really the two determining factors are temps that the solder flows > 1000 deg F, and the amount of silver in the solder > 50%.

Silver braze/solder will be unaffected by hot bluing.

Soft solder with a high zinc content are affected by hot blues because the Sodium Hydroxide (Lye) in the solution eats zinc. Most barrels manufactured before the 1930s were not hot blued but were rust blued. Rust bluing has no effect on soft solders.

[Malamute]

Thanks for the comments Mike and Steve.

Why I sold my Browning B-92 - D/T'n for a receiver sight would have been simple enough, but I didn't want to get into altering the front sight setup.

Too bad about that. A bit of orange fingernail polish made the front sight of my Browning pretty easy to see. And yes, it was relatively simple to D&T for a decent receiver sight.

One could also have a gunsmith or machinist cut the base for a blade like the originals were done. I cut down a dovetail Sourdough sight into a blade and pinned it into a base on a 94. Worked nicely.