Fireforming 38-55 from 30-30 brass?

[Camel73]

I think I would like to try this.
The 38-55 doesn't get taken out too often, and will be even less at $75 a box.

I've never fireformed before...

Any advice?

[yooper2]

Midway has Starline brass in both lengths in stock for reasonable prices. https://www.midwayusa.com/38-55-wcf/br?cid=7577

I haven't fireformed any since Starline started making it. 30-30s end up a short (right around 2.00") and it is a bit of monkeying around. I used Unique and cream of wheat held in place with a card wad fired vertically when I did fireform. Anneal them and your off to the races.

With good brass available I see no need to go through the trouble for short cases.


Eric

[Sixgun]

For 40+ years I have used 30-30 brass to make brass for the .219 Zipper, 25-35, 32-40, 32 Spl. And the 38-55. There's a few quirks with the .219 and the 25-35 but easily overcome.

As for making 38-55 I first next expand using a 35 caliber expander. The long tapered expander for making 35 Whelens from 30-06 works great. Then I tun them through a .378 Whby. expander (which is also long tapered) but a standard 38-55 expander will work just about as good.

The brass comes up a bit short but just seat your bullets out to normal overall length. You will have to make changes to your crimping die in order to crimp but if you have a decently tight bullet fit, forget the crimp. I ground off a bit from my RCBS seating/crimping die and my Lee FCD and you can still use the RCBS die for crimping normal length brass.

After the first firing, I sometimes trim to get a perfect case mouth but I usually skip this step as an open sighted 38-55 no where near compares to a 6.5X.284 that shoots out to a thousand and beyond...accurately.

Also, don't believe the Internet BS about "burning the front of your chamber" using short brass. Instead of going into great detailing why this won't happen, I'll just tell you that I think nothing of the extended shooting of short 38-55 brass out of 5K rifles.

Eric ( Yooper2) does make sense by just buying normal brass but he has a SUPER job and makes millions of dollars. In fact, I think he is part owner of Starline. Howdy Eric!-------6

[bgmkithaca]

Why bother with fire forming cases, Starline brass is readily available from at least 4 sources online in both case lengths, and for what it is worth I have no connections with any of them. If you want the experience go ahead but you can save a lot of powder and components by buying 38-55 brass to begin with.

[earlmck]

If you are going to buy new brass then it makes sense to get the Starline 38/55 stuff. But if, like a lot of us levergunners, you have a gob of 30/30 brass (like maybe two lifetime's supply) then go ahead and make it, like friend Sixgun says. And if you have Lee dies, their expanders are already the long-tapered style, which do an almost perfect job of expanding the cases to size (I use the same two steps that Six uses, with my 35 Remington Lee providing the intermediate step. And if starting with old once-fired 30/30 brass I might anneal them before beginning, then again after.

[Camel73]

I see... two different ways...

Do you guys do anything about the "case neck too thick" thing? Or is that not an issue when it's brought from a 30-30 case?

[Sixgun]

I see... two different ways...

Do you guys do anything about the "case neck too thick" thing? Or is that not an issue when it's brought from a 30-30 case?

No, when expanding you actually thin the neck. Don't look into this thing too deeply. These types of cartridges are chambered in guns with standard spec chambers, not match chambers that use pressures of 60K.

As always do a prototype round and test before doing a hundred and like I said before, seat the bullet as if you were using a full length case. I most always seat to maximum oal......then check to see if it feeds.....and chambers. Yea, lube grooves will sometimes be exposed.----6

[southfork]

The bore diameter on my vintage Model 94 Winchester 38-55 is about .380 or .381, as I recall. Having the shorter brass (from resizing 30-30 cases) might make it easier to chamber a case loaded with cast bullets that fit the bore size --- because there would be no brass right at the end of the Model 94's tight chamber. I think 'Six' or someone else mentioned that advantage some time in the past (?).

Also, has anyone come up with a good, reliable accuracy load for a 250 - 260 grain cast bullet that is also suitable for hunting?

[Camel73]

Why I brought that up was because I thought I'd just look at the starline offering and saw two different case lengths. So I googled that and found this article: http://www.starlinebrass.com/articles/L ... -55-Cases/

I'm basically new to all of this.. and learning lots all the time, but wasn't thinking in the way of match chambers or anything like that.

The article was informative to me also about primer selection for my 30-30 rb experiments in my other topic post.

Thank you 6.

[Catshooter]

I would agree with Six.

When I bought my first .38-55 brass was unobtainable, so I fire formed from .30-30. Fired over a thousand rounds with the .30-30 brass from my 94 and it's chamber is perfect. My loads push a 285 grain Lyman to just about 1,750 fps so there some pressure.

I annealed and then fire formed. If I was to do it again I'd use Six's method as I lost about two in ten to the neck being too soft. When I would expand them part of the neck would curl inwards. Un-fixable, at least for me.


Cat

[yooper2]

Eric ( Yooper2) does make sense by just buying normal brass but he has a SUPER job and makes millions of dollars. In fact, I think he is part owner of Starline. Howdy Eric!-------6

Hey Six, I ain't a millionaire and don't often make sense! By the way, how'd you know about my stake in Starline? Those folks are doing far too well for me to have any involvement in the company.

I'm actually back in Massachusetts at the moment working on an old lead smelter site, I keep hoping I'll come across some plus sized goodies for the casting bench. The Lady has taken command of that 375, she plans on hunting with it this year using the Saeco 265 gr. over Reloader-7. She just tells me when to load her more ammo.

You keeping busy over there in PA?

Eric

[Camel73]

Yooper2, thank you also... I dont believe I would have run across that particular starline article without your suggestion.

If anyone else has read it.. is that really the deal or what?

Thanks all for posting...
The more detailed info the better

[Camel73]

I mentioned fireforming only because it seems I wouldn't need as much stuff to do it... Blow out the case, add powder and bullet, and shoot.

I would inspect the cases of course and not use any that were, not the same as the others, kind of thing.

They would for sure only be used in the one rifle so no need to size? I know my factory 170 gr 30-30 cases slide right in after firing..

Thoughts on that?

[Sixgun]

Camel,
Unless your using blackpowder or huge amounts of a slow burning powder.....or.....as a single shot in a levergun....your going to have to at least resize the case enough for the bullet to have a firm grip on the case. Failure to do so will result in the bullet slipping down in the case.......that's why I said blackpowder or a case full of smokeless.....that will keep the bullet from slipping down.

Get yourself a set of dies.....they cost about what it takes to fill a gas tank up on a small car.---6

[Camel73]

Oh ya... Right. Thanks again 6.

[yooper2]

Camel,
Your welcome. Sorry if it came off as me trying to dissuade you from your plan of forming cases. I form cases for several different cartridges and when I don't need to form brass I don't anymore. I prefer to spend the extra time at the casting bench.

Eric

[1886]

If you are loading for a Marlin Cowboy .38-55, in order to use the correct projectile diameter of .381", if memory serves me correctly, you will need to use the Starline brass, of the correct length, of 2.125". If you attempt to use fire formed W/W .30-30 brass you will not be able to chamber a round. The case thickness of the mouth is too thick.
Many Marlin .38-55 Cowboy rifles had their chambers opened up and ruined by folks attempting to use the incorrect brass. Folks claimed Marlin chambered these rifles too tightly. Marlin chambered these rifles properly. Folks were using the wrong brass. Regards, 1886.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I bit the bullet several years ago and bought a supply of StarLine brass for my Marlin .38-55.
I had a box (500ct.) of Winchester brass that would not chamber with my .381" bullets.
What a sweet combination,Rifle , brass and bullet are!
I have sold all the Win. Brass to the good folks here who needed some for their real winchester rifles.
Buy the starline. It only hurts once. Then you can relax.

[Camel73]

Eric, no worries. I'm poor and frugal so I thought fire forming might be the way to go

1886 and Chuck, the 38-55 is the one on the far right. A Winchester commemorative...



As far as I reckon now, all I need are 38-55 dies.

[southfork]

That Winchester commemorative 38-55 is a beautiful rifle (Carbine). Does it have the original mechanism (no added safety)? What does the bore measure?

[Camel73]

Southfork, I believe it's the same as mine - half cock safety. I haven't handled it in a few years, other than for this pick and we were in a hurry to boot.

I actually wanted to play with the lever to compare against mine since I did all the work on it (can be levered with one finger) but never got a chance.

Bore size? Good question... I'd like to know myself. It's only had about 30 factory loads through it.

It's an Alberta Diamond Jubilee.

[southfork]

I just put a Winchester Model 94 in 38-55 on Lay-a-way at my LGS for a Christmas gift to myself!

It also has only the half-cock safety and is a beautiful commemorative 'rifle' version. I can't remember what exactly it was built to commemorate, but some old west theme. It was built in the late 1970s and they did quality work building it.

The plan is to reload for it and shoot it a lot (along with my original Winchester Model 94 carbine in the same calibre). Guess I'll be ordering some Starline brass too.

[Camel73]

A second 38-55... Just enjoying a different flavor? I think the commemoratives are built with a little more attention.

I'd really like to get shooting ours too but it's 'ol grand Pooh-Bah's rifle so, gotta light a fire under his butt first.

When we did shoot it, we both noticed it seemed to kick less than my 30-30. Don't know if this is normal or not...

As far as starline goes I'll probably try forming from my 30-30 brass first and see how that goes. I've got more determination than money.