Henry Golden Boy Endurance Run

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:30 pm

Had to get those dirty pictures done before I cleaned anything.
Ran out of time today, I'll try to blast out most of the goop & gunk tomorrow.

Preliminary indications under a magnifying glass look like the extractor hook has worn on its inside hook engagement.

Had to use a glass to see it, it's not major wear.
Still has a sharp hook tip, but it's slightly rounded inside where it should be straight.

The extractor could possibly still function, in a clean gun, but if Joe can get the photos posted here you can see exactly how gummed up the action is.

Once I get things clean enough, I'll probably replace it.
Denis

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:48 pm

Denis,

Here you go.
That is the filthiest .22 I've ever seen. That fact that it kept shooting for so many rounds without cleaning is a credit to both Henry and the original designers.

Dirty Girl 3.JPG

Dirty Girl 2.JPG

Dirty Girl 1.JPG

Dirty Girl 4.JPG

A worn extractor is what put my 50s vintage Ruger .22 Auto out of action. Once replaced it shoots great again.

Joe

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:20 pm

Thanks for posting those, Joe.
Aside from the 4 extraction failures during the last 1000 rounds, it was even running the action every bit as smoothly at the end as it was at the beginning, with all that gunk inside.
Denis

1894 · Post by **1894** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:16 pm

If it is ok with DPris , can someone find a way to post those pictures of the dirty girl so they can be seen without logging in ?
My fotobucket acct is full , even after deleting over 50 pictures it won't let me add those 4

I had talked a lifelong friend into buying a Henry .22 for his newborn son earlier this year ( he ended up getting 3

with custom ser #s ). He's been watching this thread since I sent him a link to it , but can't see the pictures .

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:37 pm

Fine with me, if anybody can handle the technical part.
Denis

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:24 pm

That is one Nasty rifle, Denis you sure done good on this test.

1894, if your friend has three leverguns now have him go ahead and join the forum!!

1894 · Post by **1894** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:52 am

Thanks DPris

Jerry , he only has 2 leverguns so far ... the silverboy he bought for his new son and a plain blued .22 lever for himself . While he was on the phone with Henry ( he got custom ser #s because they weren't building the S/B s on the day his son was born ) the nice lady he was talking to threw in a youth model bolt action 22 for the kid to start with.

. I did invite him to join the forum as he is now thinking he wants to get a Henry lever .357

Sorry for the thread drift . Back to the topic, looking forward to cleaned up pics as well as the accuracy testing !!

41 Redhawk · Post by **41 Redhawk** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:57 am

The pictures from Photobucket:

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:58 am

This past Sunday morning I was up early enough to catch the Henry infomercial. As they were showing off the different models I thought to myself ' I wonder if they will put Dpris's torture test results on their website, or on the next infomercial. '

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:20 am

There's a possibility on the website, after the dust settles.

Denis

elmo123 · Post by **elmo123** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:05 pm

I have had numerous fired cases failed to extract out of my daughter's Ruger SR22 with the AE ammo.

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:58 pm

The AE has been such a reliable performer for me over the years that I consider it a dependable test standard.

I can't recall any previous occasions where it's failed to extract in anything.
Not the most accurate, but one of the most consistent.

It's taking longer than anticipated to get the GB cleaned & back into operation, I'm working on it among other print projects.

Tonight I cleaned the bolt thoroughly, with much attention to the bolt face & extractor.

Under a 10x loupe it appeared more like a buildup of carbon inside the "hook" area had made it look like the flat had worn into something of an arched, instead of a straight, line.

It now looks more like the straight line it should be.
Also cleaned out the recesses in both sides of the barrel's chamber section where the extractor & ejector fit into once the bolt locks in battery.
I'm thinking the gunk on both "notches" could have interfered with the extractor getting a full grip on case rims.

I suspect, at this point, it was more likely to be gunk causing the extractor hook to slip around the case rim than a worn extractor.

I'll finish spraying the guts with Gunscrubber in the next two or three days & try to shoot some more without R&R-ing the extractor.

If I continue to get extraction failures, I'll either replace the part or switch to the Norma TAC 22 & see what happens.
Denis

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:38 am

Thanks for an awesome job on trying to wear out the Henry!
Have to check & see what they make in Wis. have a NY & NJ made guns

Brad

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:17 am

Denis

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:04 am

All the Federal/CCI/ATK ammo has always been GTG. Now if you exclusively used Remington you probably would not have made it.

Your results are what I would have expected. I'm sure it will end up on their web site......eventually.

piller · Post by **piller** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:37 am

I don't know of any other firearm torture tested this way. Does anyone know of such a test on other firearms? I am really wondering about the number of rounds fired without cleaning. Over 20,000 rounds fired without cleaning before any failures occur. I am impressed.

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:40 pm

There've been 10,000-rounders done on a couple pistols over the years by private individuals.
My only previous was 5300 through a Ruger LCR.
Next up will be a 5000-rounder through a Ruger American 9mm pistol, if I can get this Henry done.
Denis

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:10 pm

DPris wrote:There've been 10,000-rounders done on a couple pistols over the years by private individuals.
My only previous was 5300 through a Ruger LCR.
Next up will be a 5000-rounder through a Ruger American 9mm pistol, if I can get this Henry done.
Denis

Why don't you do a Taurus auto? You won't have to spend that much money until failure.

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:18 pm

Not enough interest.

Denis

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:26 pm

I once heard Glock had a Mod 19 that was test fired A LOT! Something like a 1000 a day, day in & day out for a long time, think the only thing they really had trouble with was extractors breaking.

I know my G23 has been through the wringer!

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:57 pm

DPris, Saturday nite we went to a cookout at some friends cabin. A man stopped to visit a few minutes and talk around the fire. He hunts with a Henry 45-70 and has killed several deer with it, he swears by the rifle and the round.

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:29 pm

I've got a steel & a brass Henry .45-70 here, have not had time to do anything with 'em yet.
I would not be at all surprised to hear they actually do work.

Denis

piller · Post by **piller** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:36 pm

DPris wrote:Not enough interest.
Denis

Guns and Ammo did an article a couple of years ago where they tested 10 polymer framed 9 mm small semiauto guns. Taurus 709, Glock G43, and one by Walther were the only ones to make it to 1,000 rounds new out of the box no lubrication no cleaning. They stopped about 20 rounds later. That was a good reliability test for most people since those small single stack 9mm guns are probably not going to be fired that many times by most of the owners. More than 20 times that is certainly my idea of a true torture test.

Yes, there is probably not enough interest for 20,000rounds in a pistol of that type. Noone, me included, believes they can make it to 10,000. Why bother?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:48 am

Skeeter Skelton did a many thousand round test on a 9mm for Shooting Times many years ago. I think it was with a Browning Hi Power, but can't prove it. So endurance tests are not new by any means.

Joe

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:47 pm

No, they're not new.
I recall reading about a couple as far back as 20+years.

Two reasons you don't see more privately-conducted ones is time & money.
They take up a lot of both.
Denis

piller · Post by **piller** » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:04 am

J Miller wrote:Skeeter Skelton did a many thousand round test on a 9mm for Shooting Times many years ago. I think it was with a Browning Hi Power, but can't prove it. So endurance tests are not new by any means.

Joe

Browning is a lot different from Taurus, at least in my opinion. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't expect a Taurus to reach 20,000 rounds without cleaning or changing parts.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:27 pm

Denis, fantastic post! Thanks for sharing the results with us. I gave my old Remington bolt .22 to my boy some years back. I'll have to look at these Henrys for a possible replacement, thanks to the results of your tests. The only Henry in .22 that I've tried had a worn extractor, about 13 years ago.

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:00 pm

I'll keep advising, when I can get back to shooting it again.
Denis

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:43 pm

Nice test, guess I won't be too concerned about # of rds through my mag version.

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:42 pm

Main barreled action's out drying off from the Gunscrubber spray-out.
Hope to resume shooting by this weekend.

Chamber looks fine, no visible leading or fouling build-up in the bore.
Not going to clean the bore, gonna try to do the final accuracy testing with it un-cleaned through all 27,000 rounds.

If it shoots sideways, I'll brush & swab it & re-shoot for groups.
If it still shoots sideways, then that'll be a data point.

I'm seeing no signs of enlarged or egged pin holes in the receiver.
The MIM hammer & trigger are still engaging well, no hammer push-off.
Denis

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:49 am

Have you done the accuracy testing yet?

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:42 pm

Finished off the 28,000 run an hour ago.
Hoping for the accuracy finals tomorrow.

At roughly 27,000 the lockup was getting slightly loose, tonight it finally wore to where the lever will no longer lock fully in place, but the locking bar inside still does & the gun's shooting fine.

A handful of additional extraction failures after replacing the extractor, but ONLY with the Eagles.
Scavenged through the back corners of the basement & found odds & ends of old stuff to add to the 2650 provided by Henry & Brownells, including some of the grungiest oxidized Remington Goldens I've ever seen.

After I get the accuracy & rest of the photos done, I'll be sending it back to Henry for an overhaul.
Then I'll buy it.

Gotten kinda fond of the critter, despite the permanent wrist damage it's caused.

Denis

piller · Post by **piller** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:31 pm

That is a lot of lead out of the barrel for any gun. Impressive.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:38 am

I would say that this torture test was a real eye opener for anyone and the manufacturers! The fact that you have only had 2 minor faults in 26k+/- is amazing. I bet some were expecting it to have more failures earlier in the round count.
I applaud you for your effort!
Now you need to find a carpel tunnel doc!

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:53 am

Yeah, in that sense, I kinda regret doing the run.
In another sense, kinda glad I did.

Have not broken it down to check for what's worn, I want to get the final accuracy shooting done first.
After that's finished, I'll take it down, clean it up, and look for wear.

I'm thinking that what I'll find is the irony of it being STEEL parts that wore.
In other words- NOT the "cheap pot metal" frame that so many people deride the Henrys for.

And ANY gun is going to show some degree of wear at 28,000 rounds of hard & fast shooting like this one got.

At 22,000 when I did the first & only cleaning, I saw no frame cracks, no signs of frame wear, and no enlarged or egged pin holes. Did tighten two screws in the frame that were very slightly loose, but you put 22,000 rounds through anything & you're gonna show SOME resulting effects.

Interesting to note that I lubed the gun before re-assembling at that 22,000 mark cleaning, and it's run an additional 6 thousand rounds without any additional lube since.

You think those rifles come smooth outa the box, y'oughta see how smooth this one is now.

Denis

piller · Post by **piller** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:29 pm

Slicker than a 1950s mens hairstyle.

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:33 pm

Yeah.
And some of us are old enough to actually remember those as comparisons.

Denis

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:54 pm

Hey, did you check trigger pull before and after? Wonder how much that changed...

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:24 pm

I was kinda annoyed with myself when I realized about halfway through that I SHOULD have gauged the trigger in the beginning & hadn't thought of it.
My apologies.

I CAN tell you it's sweet right now.

Finally done with ALL shooting.
Using the same four test loads I started out with for pre-game accuracy, today those same loads had opened up by roughly 1-1.5 inches at 50 yards in their best 5-shot groups.

I'd attribute part of that to getting started later in the afternoon than I'd planned, with a low left-side sun angle on the sights.

Even if it was entirely the gun, though, remember I shot for accuracy today through a bore that has NEVER been cleaned at any point during its 28,000-round run.

Once I get the photos & write-up done, it goes back to Henry so they can examine it.
I'll ask 'em to overhaul as necessary & sell it to me.
Denis

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:31 pm

If... t'were me, I'd clean the bore and try those accuracy shots again... Just to know... but, hey... that's just me.

harry · Post by **harry** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:37 pm

Griff wrote:If... t'were me, I'd clean the bore and try those accuracy shots again... Just to know... but, hey... that's just me.

+1
If you tested with a clean bore why not follow up with a clean bore. The gun has been through heck, it earned a fair shake.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:53 pm

harry wrote:
Griff wrote:If... t'were me, I'd clean the bore and try those accuracy shots again... Just to know... but, hey... that's just me.
+1
If you tested with a clean bore why not follow up with a clean bore. The gun has been through heck, it earned a fair shake.

Yes please!

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:58 pm

Guys, both the gun and my wrist are very tired.
I've gone well beyond the original planned 20,000 rounds, and enough is enough.

The gun's gotten a good shake, it ain't a carefully controlled lab experiment, and I consider the project has demonstrated sufficiently that the Henrys are far from cheap pot metal guns.

It may quite possibly have carried on for a few more thousand rounds, and it quite easily may have shot tighter with a clean bore.
But, in the original accuracy tests it wasn't a clean bore after the first 10 rounds had been fired, and the locking bar click's getting very faint.

There may be no safety issue in lockup, but I'm not going to risk wearing it down further to the point where it could become one.

I heartily encourage you to acquire a GB & conduct your own 28,000-round test over a period of three months, after which I'd be happy to see you post the results of ending accuracy with a clean bore.

No sarcasm, I'm just stickin' a fork in the project & callin' it done.
Denis

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:29 am

In all seriosity, the rifling is strong, neither bore nor chamber appear to be any more fouled at 28,000 than a typical .22 rimfire bore gets after 20 rounds, and I think it'd be a tossup on whether cleaning it would appreciably shrink the groups or not.

Better lighting might, but I've put way more time into this project than originally scheduled already, and there is that mechanical issue.

I'd expect a GB used in a more normal fashion, without high-volume & high-speed Lucas McCain sessions, and using better maintenance along the way, would run for many years without the accelerated action wear that this sample got in 90 days.

I consider it's proven itself.
Denis

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:50 pm

I understand.

piller · Post by **piller** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:39 pm

28,000 rounds is a good test in my point of view..

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:20 pm

Like to see how it cleaned up. Make me feel better about my Henry.

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:38 pm

Two things that surprised me are the O-ring held up through the whole run, and so did the "brass" finish on the cover, despite being handled extensively by a gloved hand. That's some tough stuff there.
Denis

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:49 pm

Gun's cleaned & preliminary analysis done.
The loose lockup appears to be a combination of the locking bar wear and the spring, and I think the spring's the biggest factor.
It's quite weak, and springs do weaken with excessive compressions.

Bore looks good, minor wear on the bolt section where the bar engages it.
Trigger's now well under 3 pounds.
Denis

piller · Post by **piller** » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:20 pm

Good to know. Springs can be replaced. Sounds as if it held up like a champ.