Remington 1858: Stuck Nipples are Now Out! Plus a Question

[Old No7]

I'm posting this in the hopes it might help someone else out when they have stuck nipples in a cap 'n ball revolver...

But I also do have a question about shooting the Remington 1858 Cap 'N Ball.

For background, I've had a Colt 1862 Pocket Police, Colt 1860 Army, Colt 1861 Navy (Signature Series) and a Ruger Old Army for cap 'n ball revolvers before. Only the last two are still around here, but I found a decent used Pietta 1858 Remington for a really nice price over the weekend, so I figured I'd get it to play around with some. All my others were always bought new and I always took great care of them, but this one had some slight visible rust around the nipples. Other than that, the bluing on the cylinder, frame and barrel is pristine and the bore was in great shape, as were the grips and the brass trigger guard. I think the seller either got lazy when cleaning the cylinder, or he couldn't get the nipples out the last time it was shot, and he cleaned it up as good as he could. (Hint... Yeah, he didn't do so well...)

'Cause those nipples were stuck in there real good!

So I soaked it overnight in Kroil Penetrating Oil in a shallow pan plus some dribbled Kroil into each cylinder from the top. Then this morning, I popped it into a 300-degree over for 25 minutes (upside down, with some Kroil around the nipples), then put it outside to cool down in the pan of Kroil, and then I repeated that hot/cold process. I was hoping the heating/cooling would draw the Kroil into the rusty threads, and I was right -- but it sure was a B*TCH to remove the nipples anyway...

I resorted to a technique I'd only read about, but never had to use before -- using the quill of my drill press to put significant downward pressure on the nipple wrench as it was turned. I wrapped the cylinder in 2 layers of painter's tape and secured it into a padded drill press vice, bolted to the press's table. Then I put a strap wrench on the quill, once I got the nipple wrench aligned with the flats on the sides of the nipples. Actually, nipple #1 came out even without all that, but I had to use the drill press for leverage on nipples #2 thru 6.

The nipple wrench finally gave way after #4 (as shown in this picture) so I recut it, then heated it up with a torch and quenched it in oil. That allowed me to reuse it for #5 and 6:

Rem 1858 Nipples 01 (Small).jpg

I'll probably have to recut and retreat that nipple wrench, but this pix confirms that all 6 nipples are now out -- thankfully! And I also wanted to show you the angled phosphor bronze brushes that I picked up at a gun show years ago... Had never really used them before, but they worked well with some RIG to clean the rust off the nipples seats in the cylinder. You can see the seat at 6 o'clock is shiny now -- and it was not before I started. I'll clean up the others later tonight. You can also see the "funky bore brush" that started out as a 357/38 brush but was worn down by passing it through the threads to clean them up too. Sacrificed a brush in the process, but hopefully all the rust is out of those threads now.

Rem 1858 Nipples 02 (Small).jpg

I'm really looking forward to shooting this, but here's my question...

I've read that these Remmies may bind up after only 2 or 3 cylinders -- is that true?

And if so, has anyone ever cut slight relief grooves into the cylinder pin like seen on the arbor of a Colt? (I'm thinking that would be easy enough to do with the pin in the drill press and a small Swiss File...)

I hope the tips on the drill press, Kroil and angled brushes above helps someone else with stuck nipples (our friend Ysabel Kid comes to mind, due to the "Sorority House" of nipples he has with his blackpowder collection).

Anyone else shooting the 1858 Remington???

Old No7

[Pisgah]

A heroic effort, and well done. It's amazing what will eventually yield to a little oil, some thoughtful manipulation, and a lot of patience.

[Griff]

The binding of the 1858 usually is caused by insufficient cylinder gap and lube on the cylinder pin. I could always shoot mine for 6 stages of cowboy action... BUT... I keep a tightly packed pin with Bore Butter.

As an aside, put a dab of Anti-Sieze on the threads of the nipples whenever you have them out... And be sure to remove them EVERY time you clean the cylinder.

[Sixgun]

The binding of the 1858 usually is caused by insufficient cylinder gap and lube on the cylinder pin. I could always shoot mine for 6 stages of cowboy action... BUT... I keep a tightly packed pin with Bore Butter.

As an aside, put a dab of Anti-Sieze on the threads of the nipples whenever you have them out... And be sure to remove them EVERY time you clean the cylinder.

I hate it when a more experienced guy beats me to an answer. That ole redneck from Texas knows what he is doing....he probably grew up around the Alamo....in 1836

As for the drill press trick. I leanered that many years ago. You have to take the time to set the screw and the driver bit your working on to get a PERFECT 90 degree angle. Use wood shims or whatever to hold it perfect so you can put LOTS of downward pressure and still hold a perfect fit. When the chuck is down and the screw bit is in the slot of the screw, turn the lever that holds it down....tight.......and turn the chuck by hand...just to break the "hold"....release the lever and turn it out real easy.

I had a professional gunsmith turn me down on removing the screw on a side plate of an 1950 Target S&W 44 Spl. as he said it destroyed 3 of his best screwdrivers. Yea, real professional..a professional dickhead he was. An old head regular guy told me what to do and I had that baby out in the time it took to uncork a bottle of Mad Dog 20/20.

Cannot remember the amount of times I've used that trick to take out all sorts of screws on dozens of other guns.

I use a WW2 Delta --220 for my work but any $99 drill press will work.





It's also neat to stay away from Italian junk. My Italian ancestors told me they were out to "screw" over the stupid Americans. A real Colt cap and ball has better screws and nipples than ones produced by the Italians a hundred years later.---6

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

The drill press thing works but it does take some time to set it up. This is the tool I use and it works the same as the drill press, just faster. This is a hand impact driver. It takes 1/4 hex bit and for CB nipples I use this adaptor to a 1/4 socket that is notched to fit the nipples.


The way it works is you hold it while slightly turning it in the direction you want to go then whack it with a hammer to torque the screw out. learn to hollow grind you bits for a good fit and it works every time.

As for the Rem cylinder base pins, I have several. Yes, I groove them. I chuck mine in the lathe and cut shallow grooves about 3/16" apart the length of the pin where the cylinder rides. Then I use heavy axle grease on it to keep the fouling loose.

[GunnyMack]

Sometimes the freezer is your friend. The heating in the oven is great and it does work. But if this ever happens again try heating it, then allow it to come to room temp and put it in the freezer a couple of hours. The different materials of cylinder and nipples will have different contraction rates.
This also works with stuck charges in muzzle loaders.
Great out come and good info none the less!

[Old No7]

Thanks guys, and yes, I always used anti-sieze on my Colts and Ruger and never once had a stubborn or stuck nipple. I'm glad these are out and I'll use that on the set of Ampco/Treso bronze nipples I ordered.

Oh -- and nice picture Steve!!! Great eye candy for a Monday morning!

Old No7

[GunnyMack]

If I can find the drawing and get it to scan, post here I'll share with you guys a handy tool, Tapping Center. Great for drill press/ milling machine for these kinds of projects.

[Pete44ru]

.

Yes - the barrel/cylinder gap is critical, since the metal expands when it gets heated after some firing.

Since I use Crisco lard in the mouth of each chamber after the load/boolit is seated, fouling is kept very loose - which allows me to shoot my C&B revolvers as long as I choose w/o stopping to clean up any binding.

When I clean up after a day's shooting, the Crisco makes it a snap (aka: E-Z-Peazy).

.

[Lefty Dude]

I made a fixture for removing the nipples from C&B cylinders. A 3/4" piece of plywood with two dowel rods inserted in the following manner. One wood dowel is spaced for the center cylinder hole, the other is spaced for a chamber hole. This holds the cylinder from turning as you use your drill press and nipple wrench for the removal of the stuck or frozen nipples. If they are really rusted or stuck apply heat to the nipple with a mini-torch as you turn the dill chuck. I use this for removing the nipples from all my C&B revolvers, stuck or not, it is a secure holding device for cylinder maintenance.

I made this fixture to remove the nipples from a 35 year old CVA 1861 Navy Kit. This was given to me several years ago. A Friend's FIL passed and the FIL started the project but never completed the project. Surface rust was all over the parts.
The piece is now a fully functioning and operable 36 caliber C&B revolver. However it took lots of effort to bring this piece to life.

[Ben_Rumson]

All the mods I made to this 1858 were done w/o benefit of the internet as it was in the 1980s.

Like most other shooters cylinder drag was problematic for me and my 1858 but when I bought a Rogers & Spencer reproduction revolver I saw they had cured the problem of cylinder drag stoppages by shielding the cylinder pin. FYI the R&S was the last version of a C&B revolver produced for the Civil War but never got issued because the war ended.
My shooting pard ( being a pretty good lathe hand)whumped up a couple of shields, counter bored the cyl. & we pressed in the collar. Then all we had to do was file in things.
Some of these older C&B pistol barrels measured .452” and have twists like modern 45s. So we reasoned if we shot a GG bullet we’d have sealed chambers & not have to mess around with goop except for some lube on the pin. It all worked like a charm. Note the red lines showing the mod points.
Once I found the charge my pistol liked I replaced the rammer pin with a longer one to maintain consistent seating depth of the SAECO 180gr SWC.

She's a straight shooter!

[Old No7]

Nice work, the Ruger Old Army has that type of collar, and it is really effective at keeping the fouling from binding it up. Thanks for sharing.

Old No7

[Ben_Rumson]

Thanks Yep but still looks like a plated Remington model?

[Ysabel Kid]

The drill press thing works but it does take some time to set it up. This is the tool I use and it works the same as the drill press, just faster. This is a hand impact driver. It takes 1/4 hex bit and for CB nipples I use this adaptor to a 1/4 socket that is notched to fit the nipples.

THAT is the tool I purchased from NJK when I decided to put some choke-tube grease on every nipple in my "sorority", as Darryl likes to refer to my collection (knowing he sold me one of my 1862 Pocket Police models! ). It works like a charm!