PCP airguns

[Ysabel Kid]

Anyone here shoot a PCP air rifle?

I've thought about getting into the game, but honestly, all the charging accessories seem a bit outrageous. Why can't one use an air compressor (like a shop compressor) to charge these? Even the hand pumps they sell, which look like glorified bike pumps, run a c-note or two! Why can't one use just a plain-Jane bike pump? I know it probably wouldn't be as efficient. Is it just not capable of building the pressure needed?

Curious... and trying to get my mind off the pain...

[jhrosier]

....Why can't one use an air compressor (like a shop compressor) to charge these? ....

They need something like 3500 psi.

Jack

[Marvin S]

3000 psi is pretty standard for most PCP air guns. I bought the Marauder a year or so ago and like it. They shot well and easy.

[Rusty]

Check out the Benjamin Maximus. It is a downgraded Discovery. The Maximus has a synthetic stock instead of the higher priced wood. The Maximus can be had from Airgun Depot in a package price for $479. It comes with pelets, scope, pump, and a field target. The Discovery/Maximus runs on a working pressure of 2000 down about 1600 PSI.
In a few days I will mark 6 decades on this earth. I'm thinking a Maximus will be my present to me.

[GunnyMack]

I have thought about a big bore off and on, I've seen some guys taking hogs with .458 pcp Guns.
Shop air can not make the pressure, most guys refill from scuba tanks, ya gotta pay if ya wanna play.

[AmBraCol]

The PCP branch of airgunning is booming - quietly. Crosman has put out a bunch of lower priced PCP powered airguns recently. The Maximus and the Wildfire are two of the least expensive - and they run at 2,000 PSI instead of the 3,000 PSI or more that many of them require. Your standard air compressor is not going to cut the mustard for a couple of reasons - most of them are oil lubricated and you DO NOT want petroleum oil vapors at high pressures any where near your face, plus they simply can't handle the required pressures. You can pick up a SCUBA tank and fill station and have a dive shop fill it for you. Or you can get a SCBA tank and have your friendly local volunteer firestation fill it for you. But the most self sufficient way to fill is with one of the hand pumps. You can pick up a Benjamin pump for fairly cheap or peel off three bills or so for a Hill pump or buy from China. My pump is a Barska Winbest picked up off of WOOT! for $65 last year. Works great and it can handle the 250 BAR that my Hatsan Nova runs at.

Another rifle to take a look at is the new Gauntlet by UMAREX. It's not out YET, but should be released in the next month or so. It's a 10 shot repeater with a regulated bottle tank and looks to be about the best bang for your buck in a repeating PCP rifle at the lower end of the price scale.

For (relatively) cheap you can order a pump off of aliexpress.com or find one on fleabay. Pumping a Benjamin Maximus or Wildfire to 2,000 PSI is not that big of a deal. You're looking at about 2 strokes per shot once you get it up to operating pressure. Most of them can be tuned to shoot from around 1800-2000 PSI down to 1,200-1500 PSI and give you 20 shots or so. Then a few strokes on the pump handle and you're back up to pressure. A chronograph helps to know what you're actually doing as far as efficiency goes and the best pressure to obtain the flattest velocity curve.

PCP's are a great alternative to rimfire rifles. One of their advantages is that many of them are shrouded or can have a "lead dust catcher" installed on the end of the barrel that makes their report VERY quiet when properly tuned. As such they make great hunting rifles. With 22 ammo becoming more common again it's quite possible that some folks will lose interest in them, but with the wide variety of options out there from the El Cheapo Wildfire to the high end FX and Daystates, there's a lot to catch one's eye and interest one's mind in a quest for accurate, quiet air power.

There are many of us who fill with the pumps, but for folks with serious back issues a SCUBA or SCBA tank makes more sense. Anyway, below are a few options (in no particular order)


Benjamin Wildfire

UMAREX Gauntlet

Benjamin Maximus

Benjamin Discovery

Benjamin Marauder

[Ysabel Kid]

The Umarex Gauntlet is what sparked my recurring interest in these. Seems to fit the bill about perfectly for a combination of accuracy, quiet, etc. You hit the nail on the head with one of my concerns: what will my back issues allow me to do, or rather, what can't I do that would prohibit me from enjoying one of these airguns...

[Marvin S]

Don't use your back to work the pump. Lock your elbows and use your upper body weight while bending at the knees.

[Rusty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwfOSG3m6wc

The guy that does these reviews is local to me.

[AmBraCol]

The Umarex Gauntlet is what sparked my recurring interest in these. Seems to fit the bill about perfectly for a combination of accuracy, quiet, etc. You hit the nail on the head with one of my concerns: what will my back issues allow me to do, or rather, what can't I do that would prohibit me from enjoying one of these airguns...

OK. Here's the deal. Hop on a plane, drop down here for a few days and I'll let you give mine a whirl so you can see if you like it or not.

[Pisgah]

There's a story of current local interest in my town's newspaper of a woman, a native of this county, who married, moved to PA, divorced and subsequently had a brief affair with her next-door neighbor. A while back she was found shot dead in her driveway after returning home from work. The most significant piece of evidence was an odd homemade projectile that was found in her yard covered with her blood. After extensive and impressive investigation authorities have arrested her jealous ex-boyfriend/neighbor and charged him with murder. They say he killed her with a high-performance airgun he built himself out of PVC pipe and copper tubing, based on the fact that a search of his home turned up evidence on his PC of extensive research on building them, materials that he used, and several of his homemade projectiles, among other things. The projectile entered her chest just beneath the right collarbone and exited just below her left shoulder blade.

[Blaine]

I've been wondering why the PCP (when money is a consideration) is better than the Gas Spring rifles. Same FPS, takes only a brief couple seconds to cock and reload.

[AmBraCol]

I've been wondering why the PCP (when money is a consideration) is better than the Gas Spring rifles. Same FPS, takes only a brief couple seconds to cock and reload.

Precision.

The PCP has virtually nil recoil when compared to a comparable powered spring or nitro piston power plant. The springers tend to bust scopes. PCP's can use virtually any scope you like. Learning to shoot a springer WELL is an art form. Many of them (especially the lower end ones) are very susceptible to the way they are held. If you don't hold them just right then you'll end up scattering your shots all over the place.

Is there a place for the springer? Of course there is. But PCP's have a special place in the lineup. The Benjamin Discovery, for example, is a light weight package (even with a decent scope on it) that makes into a very effective hunting tool. PCP's can be MUCH easier to tune and to bring up to the power you want. My Hatsan Nova is currently pushing a 15 gr pellet at around 950 fps. Not bad for a lowly .177 caliber rifle. A while ago it was shooting a 8.44 gr pellet at just under 800 fps. That put it right on the money for a WFTF level Field Target rifle. The higher power would be great for hunting, if I hunted down here. My intention with the higher power is to stretch it out to 100 meters or so and see what she is capable of way out there. Need to get her tuned up properly first though.

To achieve a variation in the power of a springer you've got to mess with springs, lubes, seals, etc. It's doable (my ProSport is now downtuned to just under 12 FPE) but takes more effort than tuning a PCP.

[Ysabel Kid]

The Umarex Gauntlet is what sparked my recurring interest in these. Seems to fit the bill about perfectly for a combination of accuracy, quiet, etc. You hit the nail on the head with one of my concerns: what will my back issues allow me to do, or rather, what can't I do that would prohibit me from enjoying one of these airguns...

OK. Here's the deal. Hop on a plane, drop down here for a few days and I'll let you give mine a whirl so you can see if you like it or not.

Sounds like fun. At this point I'd take hoping on a plane to go anywhere - even ride United Airlines - to get out of my bedroom!

[Ysabel Kid]

I've been wondering why the PCP (when money is a consideration) is better than the Gas Spring rifles. Same FPS, takes only a brief couple seconds to cock and reload.

I'm interested in it for the potential better accuracy and less noise. My Stoeger X-20 is a springer, and pretty quiet. But I am constantly having to fiddle with the scope settings. Springers serve a purpose for sure, but they are brutal on scopes.

[AmBraCol]

Another option is good ol' fashioned CO2. If you watch sales you can pick up large packs of it at chinamart or on the warrior women website for fairly cheap. There's a killer deal going on right now at mrodair.com

cp-1m CO2 pistol


The Plinkster


I bought the pistol for my brother a while back as a graduation gift. It's a lovely piece of work and gets high marks. There's a group on Facebook that is dedicated to this pistol and its variants. The Plinkster also gets high marks and there are quite a few folks pleased with them on the Gateway To Airguns forum.

Ribbonstone knows his stuff. Here's his latest on the Plinkster.


Here's an article on the PCP version of the rifle. Varminter

Here's an article by a guy that turned his Plinkster into a 25 caliber.

Want quiet? It's easier on air.

By the way, mrodair is not a "hold your hand" type company. They supply good quality airguns but are not known for the best communications. Place your order and a few days later the package shows up. This is off-putting for some folks. Others have been quite happy with the way things are.

[piller]

Shouldn't one of the PCP gun companies have a sense of humor and name one model Angel Dust?

[3leggedturtle]

Shouldn't one of the PCP gun companies have a sense of humor and name one model Angel Dust?

Thats a term I ain't heard in awhile

[AmBraCol]

Shouldn't one of the PCP gun companies have a sense of humor and name one model Angel Dust?

Contact Airforce and see if they're interested...

[JB]

I played with PCP guns for a while, but got tired of fooling around with SCBA tanks and/or pumping the darn things up. Spring guns or multi-pump guns fit my lifestyle better.

[Bill in Oregon]

Briefly owned a Marauder in .25 and the fine English Hill hand pump. Talk about quiet, powerful and accurate! I quickly tired of pumping and was not about to spend hundreds if not thousands for the tanks and compressors.
Fast forward to about now.
I ordered a Weihrauch 97-K springer online from Krale Schietsport in the Netherlands. This rifle retails for well north of $600 from U.S. dealers. I paid $391 US for it shipped UPS and it arrived in four days! (Weak Euro.)
As long as I have enough life left in me to cock it, I don't need no stinkin' pumps or compressors and it is a beautifully made and accurate rifle.
As Sgt. Preston of the Yukon would say to his faithful husky, "King, this case is closed."

[rjohns94]

I'm with Bill in Oregon. I've owned several PCP. Quiet, clip fed, powerful. I used a hand pump and extra cylinders. However , I sold them all and kept my .20 cal springer (same as Bill's model) and bought two cases of its favorite ammo. I have about 3000 shots through it. I like the simplicity. Power is sufficient for small game up to fox, beaver, ground hogs, etc. the large bores are very interesting but I prefer the flintlock for those bores. The 97, and my flintlock are keepers for life. I shoot the 97 weekly keeping the starling count up. PA just approved pellet rifles for small game. 2017 will see me using it for all small game with no need to use a .22lr. Been waiting for that ruling for 2 decades. Woohoo. Good luck with your choices

[Bill in Oregon]

Rjohns, I surely do wish the Neanderthals that stumble about the offices of the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife would expand airgun hunting opportunities on small and upland game here. Gee, whiz, even California allows it. Glad to hear PA has joined the enlightened ranks. Great way to expand hunting and harvest opportunities in a nation of increasingly fraught and complicated urban/rural interfaces where so much game goes unharvested.

[rjohns94]

I agree. PA also has held off on semi autos for hunting until this coming season and only for small game. Maybe big game next year will allow semis.

[JB]

Another slight issues with PCP guns is the velocity. While one model may be good for 50 shots on one prefill, they're may be only 10 or 15 shots within a close enough velocity range to make accuracy repeatable. Generally a PCP velocity will climb the first few shots before it starts dropping. Tuning PCP to try and get the longest range of usable shots can be a whole science to itself. I've attached a photo showing a typical PCP shot string.

[AmBraCol]

Another slight issues with PCP guns is the velocity. While one model may be good for 50 shots on one prefill, they're may be only 10 or 15 shots within a close enough velocity range to make accuracy repeatable. Generally a PCP velocity will climb the first few shots before it starts dropping. Tuning PCP to try and get the longest range of usable shots can be a whole science to itself. I've attached a photo showing a typical PCP shot string.

Properly balanced PCP's don't even need regulators. The soon to be released for sale in the US UMAREX Gauntlet is what piqued the original poster's interest in the subject matter. It IS regulated so it should have a really nice string of shots available.

My Hatsan Nova has a very flat curve and a bunch of shots on tap - no regulator. Haven't checked the latest tune yet, but am looking at 20 fpe in 177 caliber, now to get the time to check the curve. What I DO know is that it will provide well over 100 shots per fill. At 12 FPE it was doing over 150 (probably over 200) on a fill. Even as tuned from the factory (almost 1200 fps with 8.44 JSB's) it gave over 100 shots with the initial fill.

[JB]

Another slight issues with PCP guns is the velocity. While one model may be good for 50 shots on one prefill, they're may be only 10 or 15 shots within a close enough velocity range to make accuracy repeatable. Generally a PCP velocity will climb the first few shots before it starts dropping. Tuning PCP to try and get the longest range of usable shots can be a whole science to itself. I've attached a photo showing a typical PCP shot string.

Properly balanced PCP's don't even need regulators. The soon to be released for sale in the US UMAREX Gauntlet is what piqued the original poster's interest in the subject matter. It IS regulated so it should have a really nice string of shots available.

My Hatsan Nova has a very flat curve and a bunch of shots on tap - no regulator. Haven't checked the latest tune yet, but am looking at 20 fpe in 177 caliber, now to get the time to check the curve. What I DO know is that it will provide well over 100 shots per fill. At 12 FPE it was doing over 150 (probably over 200) on a fill. Even as tuned from the factory (almost 1200 fps with 8.44 JSB's) it gave over 100 shots with the initial fill.

Did you kept a choronographed log of those shots? It's not the number of shots that's the issue, it's the number within an acceptable range. Of course depending upon your uses and pickiness, "acceptable range" varies from person to person. I got tired of tuning and working only to get a 20 or maybe 30 shot string I found acceptable.

[AmBraCol]

Another slight issues with PCP guns is the velocity. While one model may be good for 50 shots on one prefill, they're may be only 10 or 15 shots within a close enough velocity range to make accuracy repeatable. Generally a PCP velocity will climb the first few shots before it starts dropping. Tuning PCP to try and get the longest range of usable shots can be a whole science to itself. I've attached a photo showing a typical PCP shot string.

Properly balanced PCP's don't even need regulators. The soon to be released for sale in the US UMAREX Gauntlet is what piqued the original poster's interest in the subject matter. It IS regulated so it should have a really nice string of shots available.

My Hatsan Nova has a very flat curve and a bunch of shots on tap - no regulator. Haven't checked the latest tune yet, but am looking at 20 fpe in 177 caliber, now to get the time to check the curve. What I DO know is that it will provide well over 100 shots per fill. At 12 FPE it was doing over 150 (probably over 200) on a fill. Even as tuned from the factory (almost 1200 fps with 8.44 JSB's) it gave over 100 shots with the initial fill.

Did you kept a choronographed log of those shots? It's not the number of shots that's the issue, it's the number within an acceptable range. Of course depending upon your uses and pickiness, "acceptable range" varies from person to person. I got tired of tuning and working only to get a 20 or maybe 30 shot string I found acceptable.

I've got it somewhere, probably. Haven't gotten serious yet about it, haven't had the range time to really wring it out. The potential is there, however. The bottle guns bring a whole other dimension to the game. That Gauntlet is taunting me, and I've not even wrung out the Hatsan yet. For me it's not just the velocity spread, it's the accuracy at a given range. If you've got a straight as a string velocity curve - but it looks like a shotgun hit the target, you've got nothing. Some guns seem to be all over the place, but still place their shots in tidy little clusters.

Saturday I was shooting the Discovery with some horrible Gamo pellets. The guys with me were hooting at my bad shooting - 'til I picked up the Nova and proceeded to stack them all in one tight little hole. "It's the arrow - not the indian" I told them.

[GunnyMack]

I got an email from Midway earlier today, sale on HATSAN pcp guns

[AmBraCol]

I got an email from Midway earlier today, sale on HATSAN pcp guns

They had a killer deal on the Galatian, haven't seen prices on any others.

[Blaine]

Paul, when you are talking about the "Tune" you put on your rifle, what do you do? What can you do?

[AmBraCol]

Paul, when you are talking about the "Tune" you put on your rifle, what do you do? What can you do?

One is seeking a balance, "tune", between the various parts. Each type of rifle has a different way of tuning - especially in regards to what one's looking to obtain. If you're looking for pure speed then typically folks put in heavier springs (or put more pre-load on the existing ones), open up and smooth out the air passages and ensure that plenty of air gets through the system. Some of this is counter productive in that it ends up wasting all kinds of air - but it "sounds" loud so folks are tickled. I've got a 2240 by Crosman that the original owner put a heavier spring in. It sounded louder so it HAD to be generating more power, right? Well, not very much more. Was only getting about 20 shots per CO2 and over the chronograph it was getting about 10 fps more than stock. Put a stock spring in and it jumped to 40 shots per CO2 cartridge (30 "good" shots) and didn't lose that much power.

In the Hatsan PCP's there's a hammer spring one can play with. My Nova came with a velocity pushing 1,200 fps with standard weight pellets. A couple twists of an Allen wrench and she was down in the 12 FPE (around 800 fps) range. Instead of a sharp CRACK (ultra sonic pellets) she gave a light "ping" from the air tank and very little other noise.

A professional tuner may actually go in and polish up the internals to ensure smoothness of the metal to metal contact points. They may also change out springs, plug or open up transfer ports and of course polish the barrel on the inside (JB Bore Paste), deburring the transfer port area and recrowning the muzzle. Depending on model they may "free float" the barrel - or snug it up in the shroud using diverse methods.

Pump guns may get a flat top piston and valve, a weaker spring inside the valve, a larger insider volume of the valve, a larger and angled air passage way as well as a heavier hammer spring to ensure the entire contents are dumped on the shot.

Some guys use a "rear velocity adjuster" (RVA) to change the tension on the hammer spring. Others are using a different device called a "stopping spring guide" (SSG) which allows adjustment of the hammer spring and also inhibits hammer bounce, thus saving air and making the rifle more efficient.
If you get into spring powered rifles then different springs and/or seals can be used, special lubes applied and a whole lot more done to get the desired efficiency or power or accuracy.


And all of that is just the tip of the iceberg. There are a number of forums on the 'net dedicated to the study of the air rifle. The one I most frequently infest is:

The Gateway To Airguns (GTA)

[Bill in Oregon]

I got into spring piston guns years ago when when the Beemans put out their catalog. My first was a Webley Premier air pistol. I sure wish I still had it. I started playing with the early Chinese spring-piston guns thanks to the late James Kitchen and his "Fun Supply" online store. He started a forum, the "Yellow Forum," and that's been my go-to for the last 20 years.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537

[AmBraCol]

I got into spring piston guns years ago when when the Beemans put out their catalog. My first was a Webley Premier air pistol. I sure wish I still had it. I started playing with the early Chinese spring-piston guns thanks to the late James Kitchen and his "Fun Supply" online store. He started a forum, the "Yellow Forum," and that's been my go-to for the last 20 years.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537

I see they've got a post on gaining posting privileges. We'll see if they accept me this time. Signed up years ago, never allowed to post, no reason to go back.