Primers: Large Pistol vs. Large Rifle

[Larsen E. Whipsnade]

I don't post often, but I read pretty much everything that goes up, so I know there are some very knowledgeable people here. I hope one of you can give me a definitive answer to my problem.

I bought some components at a yard sale including several thousand primers, specifically Remington No. 2 1/2 large pistol. I was using them to load .45 ACP. After opening the second 1000 primer box and loading 1 tray of primers, I reached for another tray & noticed that they were Remington No. 9 1/2 large RIFLE primers. Evidently the previous owner had, for some reason, put 10 trays of # 9 1/2 L. rifle primers in the box marked #2 1/2 L. pistol. The good news is I noticed after I had only loaded 100 rounds. The bad news is, I dumped those 100 into an ammo can on top of 900 other rounds. If I have to dismantle the ammo, I'll probably have to pull the bullets out of 300 rounds to be sure I get them all. So my question is, does anyone know if there is any difference in the actual priming mix between the L. rifle & L. pistol? My understanding is that the L. rifle cup is a little "taller", but is it any hotter? (I already looked to see if I could tell the difference by some primers being higher, but there's no noticeable difference - all are below flush.) What I need to know is if the ammo is safe to fire. If the accuracy suffers a little I don't care, it's just plinking ammo. But I loaded it mostly to shoot in a Thompson SMG, and I sure don't want to risk damaging it - it represents a considerable part of my retirement portfolio. I e-mailed Remington and they said they "would not reccomend" firing it, but in retrospect I couldn't expect any other answer in today's legal climate.

So, can any one shed any light on this, or should I be ordering a collet bullet puller? (No way I'm tackling this job with my inertia puller!)

If it matters, the load is 5.7 grs. of WW 231 under a 230 gr. FMJ RN.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Cast Bullet Hunter]

Since Winchester lists 5.3 gr. 231 w/230 jacketed bullet as maximum @ 16,900 PSI I would say the load is somewhat marginal to begin with. It will average somewhere around 20,000 PSI with correct primers. My recollection is that SAAMI MAP for the .45 ACP is 20,000, so that isn't the issue.

That said, there are two principal differences between the pistol and rifle primers, cup thickness and overall height. The first makes it more difficult for the typically lower firing pin energy of a handgun to cause the primer to fire consistently, FP energy does make a difference with ignition. There is often truth to the statement that the harder the hammer hits the primer the faster the gun shoots, and the more consistently. The second, height, makes it more difficult to seat the rifle primer in a pistol case. Using a press like a Dillon you may not notice the difference, but you sure will with a single stage or hand priming tool. You may be able to sort these just bu running your finger over the case head to feel the primers, the rifle primers will probably be standing slightly above the case head.

The other concern is the theoretical possibility of slam fires with a high primer. Given all the foregoing, since this is just plinking ammunition I think I would shoot it and be more watchful with what I was doing in the future.

The last observation is about buying any loading components from a questionable source, particularly powder and primers. Worst case scenario is you have no idea what primers are in those flats. They may be of mixed manufacture, and those in each tray may have been dumped in a jar and re-loaded into trays he had laying around! Not unheard of for people to buy unsealed cans of powder at a gun show and find that it was mixed types thrown in the can.

[2row]

I did the same thing with some 44 mag loads a long time ago don't remember the load they shot just fine and I'm still here. I was told that the only difference was that the rilfe primer was made to withstand higher presser ( can't spell)

[Larsen E. Whipsnade]

Thanks for the replies. I did indeed load these on a Dillon - maybe that's why I didn't notice sooner. I do think I'll not be buying any more components like this, but the other boxes I looked at (after I noticed this) still had the factory seal on them. I can't remember if I broke the seal on this box or not. Also, I had a box of 1000 that I had bought in the store, but I don't know which was which any more. All the boxes looked new - didn't have that "battered around the edges" look that they get when they've been handled a lot. I wonder if it's possible that REMINGTON put them in the wrong box? Guess there's no way to ever know. Live and learn.

Since Winchester lists 5.3 gr. 231 w/230 jacketed bullet as maximum @ 16,900 PSI I would say the load is somewhat marginal to begin with

That surprises me, as Speer # 13 lists 5.6 grs. of 231 as a STARTING load, & 6.2 as max. At any rate, I've shot thousands of these with no problem, so as long as the rifle primer won't add anything, I think I'm OK.

Just thinking out loud here...If I load a few with KNOWN rifle & pistol primers & fire them through my chronograph, that should tell me if there's any difference in pressure (all other things being equal.) Does that sound reasonable? If they come out the same, I won't worry about it.

[Tycer]

Sounds reasonable.

[J Miller]

Run your fingernails over the primers. You should be able to pick out the LR primed cases easy enough. That is unless you reefed on them and seated them below flush.
At any rate I'd just shoot 'em before I wasted all the effort to pull them down.

Joe

[Malamute]

I wouldnt worry about too much, particulalrly if you're going to run them in the Thompson. They still shouldnt be in +p range even if the priming was slightly hotter. Remington used to load metal penetrating loads (Highway Master?) for 45 auto, I think they had Thompsons in mind with those loads, and they were hotter.


All primers I've looked at have slightly different color seals in the primers, so it's possible to tell the different types apart. Look at your known types in that same maker for rifle and pistol and see if the colors match your others that you got at the yard sale, at least you know they arent a hodge podge, or mix.

I've put different types of 100 boxes in 1000 count cartons to save space. I mark the outside of the carton so I can find them without opening every carton. You should always look to see what box you have in hand when using them, just like powder,......

[Ysabel Kid]

I concur - your load sounds reasonable and I would actually load up a few more, just like you did the others, and put them aside or mark them so you know. Then try those out first, watching for any signs of excessive pressure. If the rounds you load shoot fine - no signs of problems - blast away with the rest.

The whole tin (all 900 rounds) should be marked for "plinking/target" only, as you wouldn't want to rely on a round that may not fire due to FP/primer hardness issues. Good luck and let us know how it works out!

Interesting thread. I just bought a couple bags of fired .38 Special brass. Couldn't believe I had actually ran out while reloading a bunch over the last few weeks. Just loading up target/plinking loads for my son and I. Tossed a batch in the case cleaner the other day, and started depriming some last night using a Lee Hand Press while watching TV with the family. A couple felt weird, and then I realized half of the cases still had live primers in them.

Now, being the cheap *** that I am, I am thinking "bonus"! Have to decide whether to use these (probably will try in very mild CAS-type loads). Save a penny here, save a penny there - adds up to more "gun money"!

[Hobie]

If you've run those through the tumbler get rid of those primers. Nothing like a dud just because some dust from the media kills the flash..